Off-season 2019-2020

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by Jon Martin, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. tsb11

    tsb11 Member

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    It was a loan. The loan is over, so they either had to buy him or let him go.
     
  2. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Right, they chose against the purchase option.

    But, he is on the expansion list, so if he were to be selected, presumably the team picking him would exercise the purchase option (or maybe try to negotiate a better deal).
     
  3. asctester

    asctester Member

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Apr 2, 2018
    Witch City, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I appreciate JF Caicedo. He played hard when he got his limited chances. He showed some flashes when he was out there. I wish him well.
     
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  4. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Agreed. I feel like he never really got a chance to establish himself here.
     
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  5. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Revs lose Anibaba in the expansion draft
     
  7. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry to see him go, since he was pretty useful and made a solid contribution. If we were still in the Burns era, losing a player like that would hurt, because we know it would take the better part of a year to get someone else who was 90% as good. But with Arena here, we will likely pick up someone better, even if Anibaba was staying and relegated to a backup role.
     
  8. Minutemanii

    Minutemanii Member+

    Dec 29, 2005
    Abington MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am inclined to completely agree with you! :)
     
  9. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  10. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Twenty players under contract for 2020. If my records are right, they only had 14 under contract when they released this list last year.
     
  11. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    Big contract dumping today: Agudelo, Mancienne, Castillo, Wright and JF Caicedo are out.
     
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  12. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  13. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  14. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
  15. tsb11

    tsb11 Member

    United States
    May 31, 2018
    Im glad to see those options declined, but it still surprises me to see them pull the trigger on all of them. Especially Juan and Wright.

    But in a salary cap league Juan was a back up making starter money, and Wright was a guy who was solid but unspectacular n USL. Same can be said for Herivaux. Hopefully those roster spots are used to improve the quality on the field next year
     
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  16. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's the thing, I actually feel confident that by cutting loose some of these players, Bruce will actually bring in new guys who A) will be here at the start of training camp, B) are at least as good as the players they are replacing, and C) some key players will be huge improvements, at least one guy at the level of Carles Gil and Gustavo Bou.

    In the past, we'd jettison players who were useful but had their drawbacks, gambling that we'd be able to sign better players. In a lot of cases, we couldn't sign anyone at all, much less a garden-variety MLS player who could give solid minutes (e.g. an Anibaba type), and certainly not a needle-mover.
     
  17. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    I still can't get over Burns giving Agudelo so much money, especially after underachieving previously. He was normally so tight-fisted, why did he give JA more than 2x what he was worth?

    A friend was asking what's next for Agudelo. I hope he goes and finds an opportunity in Europe or Latin America - a spot that will make him bust his @$$ and force him to scrap and fight. Will he? Nah.
     
  18. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Revs have generally been pretty conservative spenders, although they have shown times when they were willing to dish out large sums of cash.Of course, you have to be savvy enough to know which players to spend it on, and judging by Agudelo's track record, he was worth decent money, but not what he got. Mancienne too... He's no better than say, Delamea, who makes a fraction of his salary.

    There will always be some guys who are overpaid and others who are underpaid, but a smart front office should be able to know how to bet on the right players to spend on.
     
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  19. Argyle

    Argyle Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Plymouth, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    Or does Swags re-sign at much lower rate? He is still a useful player, coming off the bench.

    -----------------------------------

    Every player has some level of variation in game-to-game performance. When it is highly variable, and especially noticeable over time, that sort of player gets the label of "inconsistent".

    The perception of Juan's inconsistency is very much real, he's clearly hot and cold. But - the label of inconsistent for him has also been MUCH amplified by his prior too-large contract....especially in comparison to other players who perhaps exhibit as much variation in results; but who avoid the klieg-light scrutiny due in part to the lower salary they receive.

    Meanwhile, Juan's upside, when he is "on" is a very desirable skill set to have. Especially compared to other players who might bring mostly "energy" but don't bring the overall composure and skill that Swags has (and used to bring to the table far more regularly.)

    I really don't have a handle on the 2020 going rate for the "best" bench players in MLS, but for example, at $200K it might be worth it to keep him. Having skilled subs/depth like him is something that sets apart teams that are serious about championships.

    If a team's depth is mostly "energy" journeymen, then, to me at least, the team is sending a clear signal that they're not trying to be a top dog; at best, they're maybe just hoping for lightning to strike come playoff time.

    -------------------------------
    There is also a part of me that suspects that Juan is one of those players whose best game appears when he truly believes the team around him can actually win on a big scale/big stage. Yes, I agree that approach is backwards if you profess to be a professional athlete.

    Some players are immune to that; but I have observed many players who exhibit this - they are almost "depressed" when they don't sense real opportunity, or when they sense that the leaders and the cast around them aren't "built to win". (I would argue that we all saw a little of this behavior from many of the Revs players in the last few seasons - not just from Swags).

    Perhaps a full season of The Bruce Experience and a few more real difference making players will spark the old Swags we used to see. A rising tide lifts all boats...
     
  21. Argyle

    Argyle Member

    Jan 31, 2002
    Plymouth, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd be a bit disappointed if Juan Agudelo already considers himself a sub/depth piece. I kind of hope he signs somewhere else to see if he can get back to the form that made him a plausible USMNT player.
     
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  22. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    I agree that isn't how he sees himself. His early career success as a teenager likely cemented a "I'm really awesome" mentality into him, permanently.

    So, he's not likely keen at all on being a depth piece. (But if he ends up a depth piece here or elsewhere, and (somehow...) the starting 11 ahead of him are all top-class, maybe that's the sort of dynamic that sparks some of the "fight" that other posters have mentioned.

    Some questions Swags is likely evaluating right now:

    1.) Would he be a regular starter elsewhere?
    (He has struggled to be a regular starter on the Revs, who have been one of the weaker teams in MLS for a number of seasons running, until this years 2nd half turnaround.)​

    2.) And if he could start elsewhere, how much would any of the teams on which he *could* be a starter pay him?

    3.) And would those teams have a strong roster and favorable odds for winning big, from which he could gain adequate inspiration to excel, or would he be right back into the muck of despair as part of those teams -- a dynamic with which he apparently struggles.​


    ---------------------------------
    If the Revs are really getting "serious" about championships, then a player who shows flashes of great soccer, but not enough consistently, isn't really what a "driven to win championships" sort of team should be aiming for when they put starting 11 on the field. But - they might want his sort of skill coming off the bench.

    That being said, it's not likely the Revs can in one year obtain enough difference makers to be able to put a top-class 11 on the field.

    >> So, if Juan re-signs, there's still a high chance that in 2020 he is at least a part time starter, much like this past season.​
     
  23. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Forget about "depth" players, the Revs have had starters who fit that description more often than not.

    The whole idea is to sign guys at the level of Gil and Bou so that pushes guys like Agudelo, Bunbury, Fagundez, etc. to more of a spot-starter or tactical sub who can make a difference role. Most of the time if we're down a goal at the 75th minute, we haven't had any real options, other than "energy" guys.
     
  24. BERich

    BERich Member

    Feb 3, 2012
    New England
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which is a problem in a parity seeking, salary cap league. You can't fill your roster with Gil and Bou type players. So you have a lot of JAs on your roster - I'm ignoring what the Revs pay him, just looking at effort.
     
  25. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    I have, for the time being, signed up for the "let's pretend" game, the one where I acknowledge there is an real chance that The Bruce actually has enough power/leverage in his role with the Revs to remake this Revs team into what he is used to coaching in MLS - early DC United, then later LA Galaxy - teams built to win championships.

    Not a team that just "hope to make the playoffs", nor even a team that "hopes to get through a round or two". I don't think that is what he has signed up for. I hope I am right. It would be nice as a fan if so.

    But, that will take some doing by The Bruce It will also take sustained commitment to more salary dollars from Krafts. This upcoming season should see a lot of improvements to the roster, if this is the case.

    [If those improvements don't occur this season, I will be unhappy about that, as my hope for real change will have been proven unfounded.]
     
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