The point of my post was missed totally by you loghyr and possibly others. The point was NOT that the system is magically fixed because my kid was picked. The same issues still exist which caused my complaints previously. That isn't my point. My point is that EVENTUALLY, talent/skills will get noticed if you are persistent. I have complained pretty vocally in the past but I felt it only right to point out as loudly when something goes right. I have been told for three years that talent always wins and to be patient. I trusted those who told me this, and kept preaching it to my kid. Sure, she could get cut after Regional Camp-- but atleast she will get the chance to display her skills to the Regional coaches. Just because my kid was selected doesn't mean that everything is fine and the system is magically fixed. That isn't the case.....but there are some fail-safes in the system which will catch those not identified if you are persistent. If you aren't persistent-- don't complain about the system being broken.
A few other things I left out after loghyr and JohnR's posts-- The thing that I can point to in our State's ODP that has changed the system-- the Coaches who recognized and saw my kid were not from the typical "political" center of our State. They were University Coaches outside of the the typical influence of Club DOCs-- granted it was a Club DOC who set it up for them to see her at a college recruiting event. JohnR- I understand your point about most likely the non-selection in previous years making most more depressed and less likely to continue to try. But, in reality, my kid was absolutely motivated to "prove them wrong". Actually, there is a person on this Board who had a lot to do with her getting experience with higher level players and her gaining more confidence in her abilities-- thanks R2 (from both #35 and myself).
Sounds like somebody standing in Moscow's 1985 bread lines, triumphantly holding a loaf in her hand after a 3-hour wait. [Smiley.]
I actually tried to talk to more than your response. Too many people rant against ODP because their child is not selected or they see better kids playing against ODP players in some club match. (And you have to wonder if their kid is one of them.) The selection system is not broken, it just isn't designed to please everyone. But even if your daughter had never been selected, would that change your opinion of her ability? Would that have changed R2's or her coaches? Would that have changed how opponents felt when she stepped on the field? I don't think so. I'm sure there are plenty of kids who make ODP who basically stop soccer once they leave the club level. And there are plenty who don't make ODP who continue playing, whether it is college or pro. Or even an adult league. What I'm trying to get at is don't let some award define your child's soccer experience.
Take a population of 600 students spread out at 10 different schools. 75 of them are told they are great at math - one school has 15 such kids and another has 5. They get all of the praise at home and school. Now bring those 5 graders together into a single 6 grade center. Put those 75 students into 3 classes of 25, call them A, B, and C. Or call them gold, silver, and bronze. Group them by performance on one test and the evaluators may never have seen the students before. My argument is that in a couple of years, any of the 50 students who didn't make the cut to the A team could still make the cut. They may study harder because they want to make that group of 25. And some of the A team may just coast - they are the best and nothing will change that. Or they may hate math and will stop making any effort once their parents let up. And I'll argue that there might be 50 more kids who could make the jump into the C team. The kids after that are those from your movies - the ones who won't get better and when they do, they are the exception. Without knowing her, I'd lump #35 in the 50 kids who didn't make the cut to the A team. She has the skills, she gets the praise from coaches and family. She has the support system. In short, with a little extra effort, she can (and has) make the jump up.
I am a little hesitant to open this can of worms, but.... I can't help but think of the 9 players who were cut after a year's worth of fees and training.....and mine who "walked on" after a couple of practices. Is it fair? I am not sure I would feel it was if I were one of the 9 cut. But, then again, my kid hasn't improved that dramatically over the same year's time--- and feel as though she poaaibly should have been there to begin with? Thanks for all the positive responses, it certainly feels different to be on this "side of the field". Honestly, I believe that her acceptance into the system was based upon some of the same forces that previously kept her out. Politics are in the system, but politics also helped her to get where she is today. So, I guess that everyone needs to understand the environment that exists....and learn to harness it? Politics always has a negative connotation, maybe it can be positive as well? I am not saying that someone with political power got her onto the team, but they certainly helped to get the attention of the right people (who then gave her an honest look).
Sure it is fair - you have to perform at the tryout. And the tryout may be longer than the formal one. By this I mean that a good coach will be scouting people to bring into the tryout. Your daughter was scouted, brought in, and offered more to the current staff than the other kids. It is the same as any tryout and competitive teams. What if it was her club or HS and someone came in who was better at her spot? She might lose it then. The thing to take away from this is that she can't be complacent over the next year. She will have to earn her way at that tryout.
Originally Posted by MenaceFanatic I can't help but think of the 9 players who were cut after a year's worth of fees and training.....and mine who "walked on" after a couple of practices. Is it fair? No and Yes...This is the way its done at all levels, State ODP, Regional ODP and even Natl team. I use to think it wasnt fair, but after mine being in the system so long, I understand it. As I have posted before ref ODP, I have nothing but good things to say about it. Bottom line is, your child has to go out there and give them (coaches) no excuse to cut you. Next question to Menace, you have brought up politics in ODP, now that your club coach got her reconized, what do YOU have to do for him? Does it work both ways? Like not leaving his club for next yr?
Good question, R2. #35 asked him in a one on one if he thought she was performing at a level he was satisfied with, and when he said yes....she asked him to speak with someone to get a chance to attend a training session with the State team. He agreed. I don't feel any obligation to "repay" the favor....especially since he "owed me one" anyway. Really alll he did was put her in a position to play in front of a close associate of her particular State team coach. She did the rest. I don't feel obligated to any "quid-pro-quo".
Once in a while, things work out. For many deserving players, there may not be enough years to be persistant. For states who may have a dominant club using ODP as a farm team, it may not be enough to be talented and work hard. I applaud your daughter for making the team. From what you say, she works very hard, is talented and is the kind of kid anyone would want to see succeed. I just see the ODP system itself as being too easily manipulated with too little independent oversight. That (in my state) ODP coaches have club ties and cannot help but recognize the players from their own clubs. That virtually ALL the coaches come from a single club or satellite of that club. That the majority of the ODP players are from the same club and/or are being recruited for the club. (Players who make ODP from a smaller club will often find themselves playing for a new team within a year. The coaches select players for ODP that they want for their club team, then have year-round to entice them to switch.) Some say it's because talent will flock together, but it doesn't make the ODP system very reliable for finding and developing new talent. It seems to serve another purpose here. But, oh well. That's the way the cookie crumbles. My son disliked the system so much he refuses to participate, despite the annual invitation to tryout. ... He likes the tshirts, though.
With my son just returning from the regional championship this past week and seeing first hand how bad the ODP experience can be for a 12 year old. I think it would be interesting to get the current perspectives from these folks on this thread that had so much to say about it 5 years ago. We will never pay 1000 dollars to see our kids play 55 minutes out of 280 again when he is supposedly picked in the top 18. At twelve years old nobody was scouting them except for the all star team which means nothing accept they may have hit puberty quicker or they are club coached by a prominant bay area head coach,,, or alumni from the usmnt. The politics are still in the mix for sure. We had one kid that was coached by the afore mentioned club coach that was put on the all star 1st team as a defender and did not even play a quarter of the game at that position. The one that did and that safe many many a goal was kick to the second team all star list. Too much money and too much politics. Good bye ODP.
The regional team is certainly a good resume builder. But the problem is that even if the state coach can help your kid get on the regional team, it's the regional team coach that's the one making the decisions. And he may have only 11 players in mind of the 18 he had to take... Claudio Reyna's book has a good perspective on ODP. He went to Connecticut for NJ ODP and did not play a single minute. Within two years he was on the U17 MNT. My son's ODP experience has been great - played his primary position mostly and a little of his secondary position, and got about 50% playing time. He has friends on ODP who got less than 10 minutes per game, and were put in positions they were not familiar with. ODP is worth trying, if it doesn't work out, don't do it. It has been positive for us, but then again, our son is small and larger players have not been in ODP for years because of so many DAs in the area. Perhaps worth noting is that my son was the best on his ODP team in terms of goals and assists, but he did not get a chance to play in one regional camp game. Another player who scored two own-goals for the team got three regional games in - they were smart enough not to send him to the regional camp at least. More than a few non-US citizens were picked for our regional team, and most kids doubted that their ages were correct.
I agree with others that it matters state by state, and year by year sometimes. It's a tryout, it's imperfect—the whole thing is. But just like everything else, just because it's not perfect doesn't make it not worthwhile. If cost or time is an issue, don't do it. There are other avenues. If you think your kid is good, keep video of him. He doesn't need to be spotted on one random day where coaches are looking at dozens of other kids. If you expect a completely fair shake, because you paid money—well that's not life. Even if it does work out in your favor, there is another parent who is wondering what the idiot coach was thinking picking your kid of theirs.
I would LOVE to see a comparison of how the states do ODP. Are there any guidelines for them to follow other than going to the regional ODP tournaments and then the regional camp? Our state does little international play, you have to get on the regional team (make the pool plus the regional team which is only 18 players) to get any international trips. And we don't really know if our state is expensive. When talking to someone from the state next door, they said ours was expensive ($1400) but then they said that their state did not include the camp cost nor the tournament cost, so it seemed like a wash.