Had a friend who had a kid that tried out for the South Texas ODP team and made it. He saw that pretty much everyone else made it also. The kid was one of the better kids already in South Texas and looked around and didn't recognize anyone who he played against. He said the quality was very poor. It was so poor, he was invited to the camp in Alabama and didn't even show up. He said it seemed very "hoke." I think the final nail in the coffin for ODP is just around the corner for the boys side of things.
As long as good players are getting a chance to play regularly, it doesn't have to be an either/or kind of thing. Both programs could have great players.
wow... i have never heard from anyone that any ODP program in any area of the county had poor quality training.
Seems fairly simple. For younger ages and states that do not have Adcademy teams, ODP is good, otherwise it now seems irrelevant as focus is now on the Academy, especially in the college recruiting venue.
Here in Illinois, I am told, is somewhat better in that there are so many elite level players. In 96s -94s most kids looked quite good to real good. 93s - the last year of ODP, half the kids were pathetic and half were Academy level. Many from that half were from Campton or Fire Jrs. But he said the pathetics were ... how did he put it.... well, let's leave it at that...
ODP is a joke. At the younger ages it's a waste of time and money. At the older ages the Academy system put an end to this nonsense, finally. Some coaches used/use ODP as a recruiting tool and others as a way to make more money. Either way it wasn't/isn't developmentally beneficial enough for the players. The girls are stuck with it though.
This issue has been debated plenty in other threads. However, you must remember that some people live a long way from the nearest Academy. For those people, and particularly for those who don't even have a good club system very near, ODP is not a joke. It's a way for those kids to receive some additional instruction. It's a way for those kids to experience a higher-level game. It's a way for those kids to perhaps play farther away from home. It's a way for those kids to strive for something more. Yes, I made my state team. Can I now work really hard and try to make my regional team? And based on our experience, it's also not a waste of money. We pay a small try-out fee (~$35). We pay $115 for all the training for the year. We pay a reasonable coach's fee (~$30) if they attend a tournament or friendlies. We pay a very reasonable fee ($150) for state camp. We pay for regional camp ($580). So we pay around $900 per year, which gets us 6-8 training sessions, 1-2 tournaments/friendlies, state camp, and regional camp. I guess I don't consider that to be a waste of money. If your kid is so good that he/she is not challenged when they go to ODP, then perhaps it is a waste for you. But for the rest of us schmucks, I think it's a good supplement and a neat accomplishment for the kid.
Too many dumb statements. Many kids have benefited from odp over the years. Sure the academy has taken over in many areas but odp is still useful for other kids who are not in the academy system for whatever reason. I have coaching friends (D1 - NAIA) who go to the regional odp tournaments to recruit.
I've seen the reverse, ODP flooded with players who don't make the top clubs or USDA. It probably depends on the state, and the reputation of the ODP as a developmental and identification tool. The fact that Super Y works with ODP and that there are many more Super Y than USDA clubs works in ODPs favor. There are a lot of kids who can't afford USDA and the travel.
The "benefits" are only in some parents' dreams in an attempt to justify the time and money spent, as well as to brag about their kid being "selected". I know many coaches who have worked or are currently working at ODP, and I can tell you that many of them don't know what a good player is even if it hit them straight in the faces a few times. All ODP ever did/does was/is to select the biggest, fastest and most athletic kids. If it was/is such a good program for benefiting the players why was the Academy system created then? I've seen 14-15 year olds ODP players who can't even cross the ball to save their lives - and that's without any pressure from defender! ODP doesn't offer anything different or better than the regular club practice. In fact it will be better and chipper to pay the club coach an extra $75-100 bucks to run a 2 hour extra practice session. But hey, everyone is entitled to their "dumb" opinion....even you.
Both programs must continue to have their relevance. I've known many nationally respected coaches say "the greats, in the end, are born, not made." Not really that controversial. Was Mozart just a product of a pushy stage dad? Sports examples: Mickey Mantle and Johnny Bench-- both from tiny towns from a small state like Oklahoma. Larry Bird? French Lick, Indiana. We could on and on. In the Dallas Metro plex, we might miss a player or two. But we have 4 academy clubs. And I certainly get the idea of giving special training to the talent we spot. But without a strong, large and durable Big Net, how do we find the find "the greats" from the out posts far away from the "Big Time", especially in a culture where pro soccer itself first chose to bill itself as the 5th major sport? I consider myself part of the competitive soccer/club world. But more and more, I worry about the death or indifference to the grass roots programs in the out-lands. I'm not knocking putting "good eggs" together in a basket. I am saying that Academy League and clubs have a "coverage problem" as they look to spot "elite" players. As they look for stars mostly in or near major population centers, who looks in Binger or Spavinaw Oklahoma? Or Frenchlick, Indiana?
for whatever it is worth, every college website that I have been on where you can submit a form to the college to let them know you are interested, asks how many years of ODP you had and what level did you get to (state team, regional or national)
I disagree with you YONKO. Most of the coaches involved with ODP have about as high a license to train as this country provides and the program the Everton Way is as good as it gets. The problem is the coaches may not be looking at the same points in the performance as the Everton people may be. The kids in the past have been outstanding. At the lower levels ODP is a good testing ground while the older you get the less competition you receive but thats true at the academy level also. The attrition level is huge. While the 93 age group boys were unbalanced last training I saw as far as abilitiy I do think its good for others to see where they stand or to provide an alternate for those that dont have the time or money to get to the academy groups. The academy is also suspect and to say that ODP has not been or will continue to be a reliable source of development is incorrect. One also may look at the ODP as the basis for academy selection as it has been in the past never mind the big 3 development process that does not exist. The big 3 have started development programs but there are so many kids at the lower levels that they cant possibly find the best players until they reach at least 16. I also think you will see ODP provide some kind of challenge to the poaching that the big 3 perform on their program and the other smaller clubs that are producing the talent.
Coaching licenses don't guarantee that the coaches "know" what they are doing. Many just get them because they are required, but they still work the same way they were working prior to getting the licenses. What is the Everton Way anyway? From what I hear the ODP coaches laugh at it themselves. That just goes to show you........There may be good intentions with it, but a program is as good as the people who run it, i.e. the coaching staff. The coaching is not any better nor different than at club level. I have no problem disagreeing, it makes for good discussion. Maybe I have too high of a standards......blame it on my background......
Every state is different. In Arizona, where there are many good players but no Academy team within a reasonable drive from anywhere in the state, people will certainly pay attention to the ODP players. In Cal-South with 9 Academy teams, probably not too much. The selection process in general for ODP is clearly flawed since it appears that far too many of the people doing the selection at all levels just pick out the best players that the see without considering age and maturation issues unlike true scouts who are paid to find professional prospects.
I can only speak for NTX soccer . But, for all the alleged politics, the truly talented players were seldom missed. There was likely still the 1st qtr. bias. that shows up all over the globe, and, imho, from, year to year, it can perhaps be hard to "say good bye" to a player picked at U12 who is later passed for any number of reasons (mostly because we humans quite naturally become attached to players picked in prior years). But the great majority of so-called politics was at the fringes (was a player ranked 28th really better than a player ranked 31st?) But these "fringe" disputes seldom resulted in overlooking "The Natural" (the truly elite talent who owes more to God/or good genes than to 1 or 2 more team practices per week or small-sided play at U6). For years, many state associations were or still are politically dominated by "Home Associations", the vast majority of whom didn't or don't run competitive programs. Some of these Home Associations may even have harbored a certain antipathy toward what that may view as over-zealous competitive parents. Yet, there is now ongoing a sea change in which clubs, who for years did most of the heavy lifting in the of training and nurturing talented players are beginning to gain greater and greater power. But whether it's 80 top clubs or 280 "top clubs", these so-called "elite clubs" still can't likely reach out and bring into the game itself the 3,000,000 players who register with U.S. Youth Soccer. Years ago, I visited the Royal Dutch Soccer Academy. During a lecture it was made clear the Dutch a pay as much, if not far more, attention to the "96% without any talent as they do to the 4% who have talent." Not only does this help engender a culture which treasures the game, it ensures a broad net at the youngest ages so that The Naturals don't run off to cross-country skiing or what have you. Let's be honest. The pressure on USSF Federation Clubs to have competitive success hasn't changed a bit. But no matter how hard they work, they can only cast a net only so far. And, in practice, they will be under as much pressure as ever to ID those who show "early promise" because that will likely translate into early wins. Bottom line, while my personal efforts are in the field of competitive soccer , I worry that recreational soccer associations --the folks who stuff soccer flyers into mail boxes at tens of thousands of elementary schools nationwide --- are increasingly being seen as unneeded. And for roughly the same reasons, the same seems true of ODP. ODP (or some similar robust analogue) needs to remain viable (and not just given lip service) or the "The Naturals" born too far from the elite clubs will vanish (into other sports if nothing else). Just because clubs have for far too long been unappreciated, does not mean that, as the tide turns a bit, soccer's New World Order should forget why so many million American children come to this game in the first place.
I agree, much development can take place and we tend to look at those who are great as being the same answer when they are u18 and u16 as as result it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. I cant but help to look at Eric Wynalda, Cobi Jones, Bradley and a host of others that had the stuff to stick it out and rise to the top. Also I still want to know how the Swiss won the U17 world Cup and we cant even come close. Then as I reflect even deeper I would like to know if the ODP coaches really know what to look at in the Everton way. I see a lot of youth and lack of background in their coaching and so their laughter at what it is may be based on smacks of a lack of understanding of the world game and their experiences. The academies have the same kind of coaching that thinks they know everything so I cant understand how we can develop unless we self assess. Bottom line is the more people asking for a review at all levels at all times will make the game a better place. Go USA
The whole ODP vs Academy debate is a bit tired. It's not as black and white as some want to make it - that ODP coaches are all morons and Academy coaches are all guys straight out of La Masia. There are good and bad coaches in both. Academy should offer the best path for elite players. I think ODP should exist to catch the next best talent. Let academies focus on the top 4%, ODP and other systems can identify and train the 96%.
I wonder what would happen if youth clubs adopted the academy type system - more practice, less games, no tournaments, no teams, just pools or groups of players that train together say 3 times a week? That would be something different wouldn't it? I still don't see what ODP offers that is different or better than regular club practice.
I dont think there is a lot of difference, its might be that someone with an alternate viewpoint has a look and gives a kid a chance. Even with 3 ODP teams in Chicago and the odp I have felt that many have been missed and much can be done, That coaches are good and bad is irrelevant as much development is basd on desire! Let me know
This is a great post. One problem with academy is that it is so exclusive. The message coming out of ussf da and parroted by idiots on this board is if you don't make the academy then you suck. What a bunch of clowns!
There was recently a USYS ODP ID Camp in Germany and the following coaches were present ... Joe Madero, Region 1 Boys Administrator Keith Tabatznic, Region 1 Assistant Head Coach George O'Neill, Region 1 Boys Coach and former Professional with Glasgow Celtic Jim Felix, Region 1 Boys Coach Paul Halford, Region 1 Girls Coach, DOC PA West Katherine J Lyn, Region 1 Girls Coach, Columbia Unviersity Women's Soccer Team Darren Marshal, Region 1 Girls Coach Russel Payne, Head Coach, West Point West Point Men’s Soccer Team Leo Cullen, Head Coach, West Point Men’s Soccer team Dont know about you, but I think its an impressive list of coaches who took the time to come and look.
What they offer depends on the state. In NJ, they seem to be pretty good compared to most clubs. If a kid excels on a town team, ODP gives him a chance to play with better players than perhaps are local to him. The downside is the travel, even in a small state like NJ. The training and resume building would have to be pretty good to travel 90 minutes from the NYC area down to Trenton for ODP, that is on weekday evenings during rush hour.