ODP Selection Criteria

Actually, the first "U14 National Camp" is for U13s, and half the potential players are still 12 when the selections are made at Regional Camp.

 

What difference would changing the age from u14 to u16 make very little but they are tryig that in the academy.

The key to any program is quality training but ODP is not about training but identification. If puberty is having a significant impact on who we choose eliminate that factor and make ODP start at u18. If it is about providing quality training to potential prospects start at u10.

 

The reason I like the academy idea is that if it works properly it should have a trickle down effect on the rest of area. Clubs will be training and bragging how many kids get selected for the academy.

I am not sure politics will let this happen but I like the concept.

 

This, of course, is what most World Cup champs do, having extensive professional youth development programs starting even younger than U10, and not bothering to select all-star players until U17 or so. (France is the exception, with its national talent programs for ages 13 - 15.)

 

From what I understand France may have talent programs but no National team till U16.

CVAL,
I did say 16 years old. Even so, 15 years old turning 16 is better than 12 turning 13 or even 13/14. As I said earlier, the players will be getting closer to what they will be as an adult player. This is an age range of rapid change.
And as far as the training goes, any time good players are playing against
other good players, it's good extra training. Where I'm at, ODP is not looked at for advanced training, we have a very strong club system where I live.

 

Do ODP coaches matter?

First of several tryouts for 1991 and 1992 boys this past weekend, and our state association tells the gathered parents that they do not know who tyhe coaches will be for the upcoming ODP year.

Is this unusual? Are they just disorganized?

 

HiFi,

Each state is different, some are organized, while others are not.

 

Part of the beauty of soccer is that is very difficult to numerically quanitify in a way that is meaningful. It is the anti-baseball.

 

How bad can ODP be, he asks rhetorically?

This bad.

My kid was Illinois ODP, captain of his State team in fact. He showed up to high school training camp this week, for freshmen. His coach never played the game, did girls basketball and soccer for a few years, took over boys freshman soccer this year.

My boy says no question, the high school coach is better. Not even close. The boy is very grateful that the high school freshman coach who never played the game, has insight and understanding that his ODP State Coach lacked. It is so much more fun to play for a coach who can understand what you are trying to do.

That's how bad ODP can be. Worse than high school freshman soccer, at one of the biggest soccer states in the country. The level of the belly of the snake.

That is why USSF is attempting to eradicate the current ODP program via the Academy program.

Much of ODP is actually quite good. But unfortunately for ODP, as a decentralized organization, it permitted the bottom of the bottom to do whatever it liked. That is why its existence is now threatened, and that is why it is so vehementy disliked in certain circles.

 

It's been a long time since I chimed in on this conversation, but from my experience, no.
My son has been nominated by his coach and club for ODP every year, and has also been noted at state cup playoffs by some ODP "scout" for his age group and asked to ODP tryouts.
Nothing has come of it. Never gets out of pool play.
He's both the kid you mention as a late birthday (September)
and OTOH he's also the kid who stands out physically (early development, always the tallest kid on the field and now 6'3".)
He thinks the selection process isn't designed to pick out kids who play well in games, as opposed to kids who can master a small sided drill. He thinks that the ODP coaches favor kids from a single club in our area, and they do have a lot of the ODP players, but it's a larger club, so they have a lot of the better players anyway. The returning ODP players know each other well from club play and from previous ODP years and there has been almost no change in the ODP state roster for the last several years.

It's not that big of a deal to us. It was flattering for him to get nominated at first, but he just doesn't have his heart set on making ODP. I suppose there are some things that he could do to make more of a splash at ODP tryouts (if he even tries out this year, which I doubt), but he doesn't see any point. And since the same old group of kids gets their butt kicked everytime they play another regional team ... well? maybe it's not the best use of his time.

BUT...
oddly enough, he has become very dedicated to soccer in the last year and all the things you hope for as a parent: he's passionate about his sport, watches soccer matches live and on tv and then works on the moves he's seen, spends his free time playing soccer with friends and teammates, and is clearly focused on the game. He rallied his high school teammates to practice on their own all summer. His high school coach clearly noted the difference and has already let me know he will be starting varsity forward. (This despite the fact that he is also the school's football team kicking specialist and has to miss occasional soccer practice - usually the kiss of death if you want to be a starter for our very competitive soccer team.)

Whatever happens, ODP isn't going to be his catalyst, nor his downfall. It's just something that didn't work out for him.

Back to the topic of selection criteria:
We asked for the ODP coaches evaluation one year and the entire tryout was summed up as "average club player." So I still don't know what their criteria is, only that he didn't meet their expectations.

 

What you are asking about takes place at Regional Camp, at least at Region 4 camp. Players do 100 yd dashes, jumping height, and a couple of other exercises that I can't think of at the moment. I'm not sure, though, that those kids that did well on these tests were the ones that got picked for the regional pool.

Your probably right, though. This kind of stuff probably needed to be tested during ODP tryouts. Time restrictions and the number of kids showing up may have something to do with it at tryouts.

 

Just to follow-up about Region 2 camp and evaluations......
my daughter recieved her evaluation both from the Regional Coach that she was assigned to and from her State Coach. So much for my complaint of not having written evals for stuff to work on for the next year.......

Very good info on the eval, nothing that could be used as "bragging" material...just concise evaluations of the weaknesses to be worked on.

 

Nice, how it should be.

Ditto.

 

If true, this is great. What better way to promote teamwork, loyalty AND camaraderie. ODP is nothing more than a money-making machine, anyway.

 

PERF - Thanks for coming on here and explaining to us the importance of interchanging positions on the field and zone defense. You are accurate in that learning to play zone takes time, but is well worth it. Another good place on the Net to find information on playing a zone defense would be Soccer Specific, where one may find presentations on the subject from Dean Wurzberger and Bobby Clark, two venerable college coaches. Spot on.

 

For my son's age group in our state, there were zero regional team players for the first three years of his participation. Then the State Director of Coaching became the Regional Team Coach - then there were four players from the state on the regional team. Go figure.

 

With most All-Star type of selections, there are a handful of kids who stand out and are easy to pick.

Then you get to bubble spots and the reality is that many kids can fill those spots. This is where coach bias kicks in - does he like big players, fast players, players with birthdays early in the calendar year, players he already knows, etc.

And those are the picks that no matter who gets chosen, the coach/process gets slammed for not being unbiased.

 

The head of Md ODP program / assistant head of region 1 provided the following selection criteria to players and parents. Pretty thoughtful and accurate based on the players they picked:

ODP TRYOUT EVALUATIONS


ODP TRYOUTS – WHAT SEPARATES PLAYERS

Trying out for ODP teams can be a very stressful time - before, during and after. When tryouts are over I often get e-mails and calls asking for evaluations of the players so they can work on what they need to do to improve. With hundreds of quality soccer players trying out it is impossible to give individual evaluations. However, there are some areas of the game that are the MOST COMMON in separating players from one level to another. These may be helpful in evaluating one’s own child, oneself or the player you coach.

1) First touch on the ball. Do you control the ball or does the ball control you? This is easy to see and those who have the ball controlling them can never make the step to a high level. First touch may well be the first thing to look at.

2) Speed of play. This is more in relation to what I call “soccer speed”. How fast can one execute a technical requirement of the game. Can a player (under pressure) take a pass and as quickly and efficiently as possible execute the next play.

3) Tactical decisions. Even if the player does things with effective speed, then the question becomes: is the player making the best decision possible and how fast does that player see the options.

4) Does the player make the game better? This can be due to overall ability, athleticism and a good “soccer brain”. It can also be because that player does something extremely well that a coach may feel overrides the deficiencies. For example – the player is a great 1v1 player, but lacks defensive instincts or great passing. Maybe the player is a fantastic defender but lacks elsewhere. The essential question is does the player have a chance to make the team better as opposed to just holding his own (not a good standard to use in making an ODP team).

Needless to say, there are other things that can factor in – especially at the younger age groups where sizes of players are so varied. Coaches are always asking the question: “While this player may not be able to compete athletically now, can he be one of the best when he does catch up with the athletically advanced players?” We certainly try and select those players even if they do not seem to be as effective as some who do not make it.

At the end of the day our staff can safely say that anyone who is selected has deserved to be, but we also know there are some not selected who are very good players. For those the greatest challenge is to now look at their game and really try and improve the above areas in particular. The higher the level, the less time and space players have to be effective. Work on speed of play, speed of execution and speed of thought.

 

That's what people say, but I no longer believe it. At least not in the notion that the coaches can easily find the handful of really good players.

To cite but well-known example, fast & flashy Clint Dempsey, who has an advantageous birthday for ODP and who belonged to the biggest named club in his entire Region, never got a look at the Regional level.

Closer to home, I saw a kid stuck on a State team with an idiot coach who bashed his players, with the result being that nobody on the Regional staff learned off his existence. The next year, under a different coach, the player was placed on a National team. One year never a hint of Regional pool, the next year National team ... the same player.

Or, a player who led his State team in both goals and assists, and his State team won the Regional title, and the player had more goals/assists than the opposition had goals, never called into the pool training at Camp to get a look.

So I'd say, the evaluators can pretty much miss anybody. Aside from maybe some enormously mature kid who also is a good player, pretty much any other kid could fly under the radar if luck did not serve him.

 

John,

Nothing is perfect. Even the best screw up.

Generally however, the best players do stand out and even in the more competitive States - yours, Michigan, California, North Texas - you can see the best and there will be a fairly bright line between the top, the middle and the bottom.

Keep in mind that you offer examples of those who were missed. I imagine that if the norm was most good players were missed there would be no need to offer examples. In truth most are eventually found. They may be missed once, but as in the case of your second example, they are found.

You make a better case for screening out idiot coaches than for you do that the players do not generally separate themselves.

 

That is a fair point.

Perhaps I should reword the argument - the statement that the best players were selected appears to be a matter of opinion rather than fact. I do not know of a way to test that proposition. Personally, I am quite skeptical. I think that the exceptions are more than occasional. However, I grant that others may have a different view, based on their experiences and their belief sets. I do not know how to adjudicate the differences.

 

I agree with you that the argument as you phrased it is circular.

I also agree there has not been a valid study to determine the pool size and the numbers that are being selected and missed in selection.

Separating layers is not that hard especially at young ages with pools that come from most States. You are right to suggest that separating individuals within the layers can be much harder.

Then the differences in selection choices are more often found in what a coach values. A coach that sees the game as a physical contest with simple tactics will prefer one type of player. A coach who sees the game as being more complex may value a different player.

Your argument suggets that there is an absolute ideal player that all can agree on. That is not the case. It becomes even more complicated as we look for players that can play particular positions as well as particular styles.

Added on to this is the usual incompetents found in any profession and you have "missed" players.

To me the issue is not that players are missed as much as why they were missed. If the system prefers a particular type of player, they are not truly missing a player who is not that "type". The criteria used may be wrong, but they are not really missing a player.

If the criteria used in evaluating players is wrong, if we want a different style, we need to change the coaches evaluating players. That is a different debate. Keep in mind if we change the criteria, say to emphasizing skill more and at earlier ages, we may "miss" more atheltic players who refine their skill later.

 

We miss them now. The best athlete ever to wear the uniform of one of the top clubs in the country (according to that club's DOC) ghosted through ODP without the coaches ever noticing. And yes, that is but one exception, but I could list many more. When the coaches pick "athletes," what they really mean is "physically developed and old."

I would trust the coaches to select on insight more than I trust them on athletes, and I don't trust them a whole lot on insight.

Which is why I prefer that the staffers select primarily on skill. There, the coaches seem to pretty consistently be in agreement when attempting to identify the most technical players.

Hey look, I just said something nice! Stop the presses. OK, I will say that I didn't notice any interest or ability in the coaching staff regarding crossing, shooting at distance, and so forth. Thus, the guy who couldn't kick the ball straight was loved, and the kid who scored 4 beautiful goals from outside the box was loathed. But I can't quarrel with the first touch of the coach's favorites ... there isn't a clunker among any of the Regional team players whom I know, and several of them are more than good, they are excellent.