Oddest USMNT career?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Bruce S, Aug 27, 2005.

  1. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Millwall. I remember watching him in 94. He was on the team same time as Keller. Had no clue that another Yank played on the team - looked really stupid in the bar when I didn't know that.
     
  2. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    and I think both Snows blew out their knees.

    But I'll have to check. I know one did, but I forget which one.
     
  3. LittleMaradona

    Feb 25, 2001
    What about Harkes?

    Going from "Captain-for-Life" to not even making the 98 WC squad because he slept with Sampson's wife.
     
  4. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, the rumor was Waldo's wife.
     
  5. numerista

    numerista New Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    Yeah, I agree that Sampson over-reacted the way you say. Since I never tire of piling on against him, here's one more thing about that Austria game: our success had a lot to do with using Frankie Hejduk as the right wingback (he scored the first goal), and using Brian McBride up top (he scored the second). Both played well, yet in the three remaining warm-up games, Hejduk didn't play at all, while McBride only made one appearance.

    Obviously, it's hindsight that Hejduk and McBride ended up being our two best performers at WC98. But in any case, the 3-6-1 system might've been less of a disaster if Sampson hadn't put a slow-footed player (Burns) in Hejduk's place and a physically weak forward (Wegerle) in McBride's.
     
  6. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    McBride has had an interesting career. A big, powerful center-forward and consummate team-player who hit the prime of his career right as MLS started in '96, he should have been a shoo-in starter right away. He was the perfect partner for Waldo, and an ideal target for the long-ball game Sampson loved. But it wasn't until the second game of the '98 group stages that he grabed a first-11 position, and by that time our world cup was essentially done. Then, once he's established himself as one of our best players and an automatic starter, he spends the next four years of his career - what should have been the best years of his career - suffering a Homer Simpson-esque series of injuries.

    Somehow, he manages to stay healthy enough to score the second-most important US WCQ goal ever (in the 1-0 win over Guatemala in Sept. 2000), spends the next 18 months with broken cheekbones, twisted knees and a life-threatening blood-clot, and finally gets healthy enough to play in the 2002 WC. Where he becomes the first US player ever to score in 2 separate World Cups, where he creates our first goal, and where scores the game-winner in both US victories.

    Since then he's entered his 30s (when most athletes break down) and has become one of our most durable players. To top it off he's playing the best soccer of his life and - correct me if I'm wrong - has recently become the highest-scoring American ever to play in a European top flight.

    McBride's had both the greatest career of any US player ever to wear the shirt, and the strangest. At the rate he's improveing I wouldn't be surprised if he turned into Pele by the time he was 40. I guess Arena was right a few years back when he called Brian "a young 30" - seems like all those injuries saved some wear-and-tear on the legs.

    Can anyone think of another player who kept getting better as they aged?
     
  7. B Rock

    B Rock Member

    Oct 7, 2004
    Razov isn't really that odd. You just have to really look at his career with the USMNT instead of just his stats.

    First of all his game against Ireland (where he scored his first goal) was to be blatent poor. He spurned a number of other chances and didn't contribute to the attack as much as one would have liked. His next goal again Mexico was a mop up one in the 87th minute when the US was up 2-0. Both of these games were also friendlies.

    Two more of his goals came in the first stage of 2002 WC Qualifying against Barbados (the 4th goal in a 4-0 rout) and Guatemala respectively. In that same stage he had an absolute shocker against Costa Rica in Columbus and was one of the main reasons the US didn't beat them there.

    In the Hex for the 2002 WC he also had a number of chances and largely failed to produce. He was the worst US player in the famous 2-1 win in Honduras courtesy of Mathis's FK. This game dropped his stock significantly and moved Wolff, McBride, JMM, and Mathis ahead of him.

    For the rest of the cycle he subbed on in the games v. CR and @ Jamaica before getting another half chance against T&T. Despite his goal, its important to remember that this was a shadow of the T&T squad that qualified 1st ahead of Mexico in the original group stage. T&T was truly dreadful in this game and the scoreline flattered them.

    His final real chance that Bruce handed him was the infamous 1-0 loss @ Mexico. Another dreadful performance from Razov, and in my mind the final straw which led to the

    Since he has seen spot duty with the USMNT such as a reserve in the 2002 Gold Cup and largely forgettable friendly performances against Mexico, Denmark, and Haiti.

    In summation the CR, Honduras, and Mexico games were simply too disasterous to overcome; and if you look closer at his goals they didn't come in particularly flattering circumstances. A goal in a poor game friendly against Ireland and the third goal in a 3-0 friendly victory vs. Mexico. His best was probably his goal to get a result in Guatemala while another mop up in a 4-0 rout against Barbados probably didn't impress Bruce. His final 2 were the opener in a 2-0 win against a woeful T&T and another mop up in a 4-0 rout of El Salvador in the Gold Cup.

    I think Bruce has Razov pegged right. An experienced striker who can step in if a rash of injuries occur, but simply not good enough to be near the top 23 of the USMNT right now. Not too much odd about that IMO.
     
  8. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Good stuff, thanks.
     
  9. nowherenova

    nowherenova Member+

    Jul 20, 2003
    Formerly Terminus
    Nice thread guys. How about Cle Kooiman? Maybe not an odd career, but certainly interesting.
     
  10. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also, his goal against Ireland was blatantly offside.
     
  11. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Cle Kooiman scored against Ireland? :D
     
  12. JohnW

    JohnW Member

    Apr 27, 2001
    St. Paul
    I nominate... Clint Mathis.

    History:

    First capped in 1998 after his rookie season in the MLS, which BTW included one of the all-time great goals in MLS history against Dallas in the playoffs.

    Continued to shine in MLS in 1999 and earned an additional two caps that year.

    His career with the Nats took off in 2001 when he scored two goals and four assists in SoKo 2002 qualifying. One of the goals was a late-game winner (free kick) in San Pedro Sula v. Honduras, the other was the assist to Josh Wolff in K.C. against Costa Rica.

    Blew out his ACL in 2001 at a USMNT practice.

    Scored two goals on his return to USMNT after rehabbing from his knee surgery, finishing 2002 as top score for team, notching seven goals.

    Was tweaked publicly by Bruce Arena in run-up to SoKo for work habits, perceived need to get in shape.

    Neverthless, there were persistent rumors that Clint would make a move to a Bundesliga team--perhaps Bayern Munich. Didn't happen post-World Cup, although Mathis eventually joins Hannover 96.

    Played in three games in WC '02, scoring against South Korea in what turned out to be a very important goal. U.S. doesn't advance without the point against S Korea.

    Clint was still a force in 2003, playing 12 matches and even captaining the team for three.

    Appears in six games in 2004, playing a total of 251 minute--no goals, no assists.

    Last appearance with the team was just under six months ago--March 19, 2005 in a friendly against Honduras. 2005 stats--2 games, 129 minutes, 1 goal, 1 assist.

    Oddness factor: high

    Reasons:

    a) Personality--mohawk anyone?
    b) Talent--arguably one of the most talented U.S. born field players ever yet likely never to be capped again--and he's only 29. That's not super-young by "world" standards but certainly not old by traditional U.S. standards for players. And his Gamecocks strike partner is still part of the USMNT picture.
    c) On the outside looking in--even with Eddie Johnson hurt and U.S. needing a scoring/finishing boost (i.e. Gold Cup 2005) Mathis never even gets an invitation to camp for U.S. qualifiers.

    Coda:
    ussoccer doesn't even have his club listed correctly

    http://www.ussoccer.com/bio/bio.sps?iBiographyID=1707
     
  13. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn't Bruce Murray also at Millwall at that time??
     
  14. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    Yes.

    Milwall will always have a special place in my heart as they were the first team that I felt embraced Americans, having three at one time.

    Now that Americans have gotten better, they've embraced Canadians in a similar way.
     
  15. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    got to agree with everything.The guy is a bottle of fine wine-getting better with each day.
     
  16. LittleMaradona

    Feb 25, 2001
    About a year ago, the BS community was calling for BMB to retire from soccer and apply for early senior-citizenship.
     
  17. JoseP

    JoseP Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Desmond Armstrong. And he played more than a few times. He had 81 CAPS and, if I remember correctly, was captain of the team before the 94 WC. He was a regular starter, anchored the defense, and was, shockingly, dropped from the roster right before the WC. The only reason I have ever heard was that he was difficult to get along with.

    Even then, I had heard he was offered a contract to play in MLS, but thought the $$$s were very low and could do better elsewhere.

    Here is a link about him - http://www.ussoccerplayers.com/players/desmond_armstrong/.

    And now he coaches a boys U-14 team in Bethesda - http://eteamz.active.com/Broadrunners/.
     
  18. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    yes, he was not a bad player.
     
  19. Scotty

    Scotty Member+

    Dec 15, 1999
    Toscana
    Henderson was actually the youngest player at that entire World Cup, if I'm not mistaken.
     
  20. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    it would have not been as weird a career if he had just sucked.But he didn't.He is and was a good player his entire career.Fast too.
     
  21. Warzycha

    Warzycha Member

    Apr 22, 2002
    Denver, CO
    I heard both Snow brothers were total pr!cks. I heard a story that Ken was in Brazil for a tournament with one of the youth National teams and threw a hissy-fit about poor housing accomodations. Allegedly, their Brazilian tour guide led him to a tiny room on the training ground with a bunch of rickety cots that were more like hard benches, and told Snow that Pele slept there for 12 years......then told him to shut the fu#k up or go home.
     
  22. voyager

    voyager Member

    Jun 10, 2004
    Frederick, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Oh, yeah. Desmond. I think there was a Daryl Amrstrong somewhere else along the way that I played with but he never played with the Nats. Thanks for the re-mind.
    I don't know much about Desmond being difficult to get a long with but I played against his brother Jon quite a bit up through high school and he wasn't too bad. But then again we were never friends and we went to different high schools, so I could be way off.
     
  23. Mglnbea

    Mglnbea Member

    Jun 26, 2001
    Northern California
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That was one of the oddest moves, never really explained, from the Bora era. There was one rumor that Des had been heavily involved in union activities on behalf of the team and that might have had something to do with it. It really was strange because he played in a lot of the games that the US participated in, leading up to WC '94. Anybody else have any info?
     
  24. Mglnbea

    Mglnbea Member

    Jun 26, 2001
    Northern California
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Chris Henderson was all that, at the club level. At the NT level, he wasn't able to hang with the big boys.
     
  25. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    really? He could not hang with Ernie Stewart? He could not hang with John Harkes? I seriously doubt that, having seen them all play a milion times.
     

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