October Friendlies (Chile & Algeria)

Discussion in 'Colombian National Team' started by Froboy69, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    im afraid of that....
     
  2. Bomb8

    Bomb8 Member+

    Jun 19, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I dont know much about CQ, other than reading about him here, but if it really happens that James and other creative talented players have no room in his team, I'm not going to defend him. I guess it's possible after all since he is very stubborn. And he never has anything interesting to say in the press conferences. Pekerman was way smarter.
     
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  3. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    Some times it works sometimes it doesn't. Bad teams perform well and win games sometimes, but you also get more games like a 3-0 which shouldn't be surprising, there are tons of variables and even if we lost that Paraguay game the bill came due. They performed well in a real game vs in a friendly, so are you then making the argument that we shouldn't panic since one good one bad with a group of backups?
     
  4. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    #379 pepinointer, Oct 18, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
    No, my argument is that we cant invent excuses, .like the "defense was new" and "we lost because barrios wasn there".................the team isnt barrios dependent and neither have to play with the same four defenses to defend good.

    im worrying a lot of because each game (exception the brasil one) , each match the teams is playing worse.........and more chaotic.

    I think that the last result, is consequence of the confusion and the discomfort of the players., with the idea of the coach..something very similar to nwhat happened with Pinto in 2007/2008.

    and we dont have to lie, that colombia was in chaos when arrived and he have to fixed.....or invent that world cup of 1990 was better than 2018..like @kromekote said...because a victory in a toournament and being third, is better than two victories and and a first place.



    That the national team lose a match w with a team ranking 38 with experimented players like cuadrado, ospina, murillo, lerma, muriel, uribe.........that together complete 300 matches .............is a BIG REGRESSION
     
  5. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    If it happens over multiple matches and we don't improve and make strides I'll be the first to agree that the coach is a problem, and that very well may happen. I am afraid that CQ is a boring ass coach who wants robots and doesn't appreciate smart attacking players but I'm gonna give him at least another window and see how it goes. It's hard to compare all the results and all the games is my biggest point, soccer has so many variables and sometimes you go down a goal take risks and lose 3-0, its better then sitting on a 1-0 loss that doesn't look as bad. I also think coaches need time to evaluate and get their ideas across and try new ideas and new players, and coaches who do that in friendlies and try things our are almost always going to be better, and to do that you somewhat have to not worry about the result in a friendly. Getting a win or blowing out a shitty team like we have in the past in friendlies really doesn't get us anywhere, we need to use these to experiment, but that's also only good if it helps CQ find the right approach with this team. It could be he reverts back to how we lined up against Argentina and we are golden, if not and he continues to push out James then this we will rightfully put his head on the stake but for me at the end of the day losing 3-0 to an African team isn't something that should be a huge issue if its an isolated incident to friendlies.
     
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  6. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I dont know if queiroz will improve or not....i never have said that we are done yet with him, i cant predict future.....but from what i ve seen i can judged his style, his play and how i see he doesnr have intention to change it

    i critizice of what i ve seen in called ups and matches and the style of the called up players.....i only give time when the team need a restructuration, come from a drought of good results.....also queiroz is a guy that have more known failures than success to trust and give him a lot of time despite mistakes as excludes talented (not only james).

    If in the last 5 matches we havent win and only scored in one match.....just tell me that there is a very bad TENDENCY that we havent had like in the last 9 years ago (despite kromekote invent that isnt new) .....and each time national team looks worse in every match from the prior one.....so how many matches we have to wait to say that this is not being good? Another 5? If you think another thing you can but what i dont understand....is that we have to defend him....with bad excuses and false facts like: argelia is super top, that colombia was in crisis before him, that he was trying a new line of 4.....if this are "uselles " friendlies, that colombia had this oroblems od winning matches before queiroz......which risk did he took in this match? Played without creative players and isolate our forwards??? Not really a brave man
     
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  7. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    I'm not really defending him, I just think we don't have a big enough sample size to fully judge one way or the other, too many variables. He had some good games, he had some bad games and his peak was very good and his low point last game was pretty low. You're right he doesn't have a huge track record of success or of utilizing creative players super well, the Colombian FA didn't seem to have a very clear plan on how or who to go for and may have ********ed this up. I still think there needs to be a bit more time, aside from Arias I don't think there was a better lineup then the main one he settled on in the COPA and using guys like Roger and Muriel as wide attackers is a good thing and not forcing Cuadrado wide is also, so there is good signs there. Now if he tries to play Cuadrado wide and continues to freeze out Arias and play Murillo over Lucemi its a slam dunk he's a moron who has to go, but there were some very good things that would progress the team that he did.
     
  8. ryu79

    ryu79 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 17, 2005
    NYC
    Club:
    America de Cali
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Thoughtful posts. In the end, its a catch22 win or lose, if James is on two good legs in good form and CQ isn't calling him, I don't see the Colombian FA sticking with him anyway...

    They are so reliant on his image.
     
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  9. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Isnt only james exclusion he will back soon.

    But he also exclude another inventive option as alternative...so james will be tne only inventive option in the field....and when he isnt there we should resing to play with lines ups of chile, argelia..
     
  10. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Very good article of Nicolas Samper:

    I highlited the most important points

    https://www.futbolred.com/opinion/c...pina-nicolas-samper-columna-de-opinion-108200

    El dibujo táctico es el mismo siempre: 4-3-3. Y el esquema es el que ha tenido Carlos Queiroz en su mente desde que asumió como director técnico de la selección Colombia de mayores y esa es su idea de arranque, la misma que el equipo que él dirige, ha tratado de exhibir en los partidos de diferentes modos, con cambio de nombres pero metidos en el mismo molde. Queiroz parece que muere con la suya, que eso no lo va a modificar a pesar de que -y eso parece un verdadero asunto de terquedad- de acuerdo a las últimas pruebas poco felices frente a Chile y Argelia que no ha encontrado los futbolistas necesarios para llevar a cabo de manera efectiva esta idea futbolística. El balance apunta a que no hay jugadores que se adapten al sistema que Queiroz propone.

    Y ahí está el detalle: el director técnico tiene claro que primero es su esquema y después los jugadores. El dibujo es, de acuerdo al nacido en Mozambique, lo que se debe respetar, más allá de la inventiva o la capacidad de mutar en términos tácticos. Durante los buenos y malos momentos ese cinturón es el que quiere implantar el DT cueste lo que cueste. ¿Qué tanto puede afectar al equipo nacional su rendimiento esa camisa de fuerza impuesta?

    No por nada -y el debate está centrado Justo en ese punto- en el de pensar que la inventiva no cuenta con cabida en la nueva administración que está a cargo. Queiroz sigue ensayando, no importa que sea con hombres cuyo momento no es el ideal para recibir el honor de hacer parte de una convocatoria -caso Berrío, Ibargüen entre otros- con tal de que pueda culminar el rompecabezas que empezó a armar así tenga que meter las piezas a la brava, como cuando uno era niño, forzándolas para crear una pintura que hoy se ve desteñida y con los colores difusos.

    Así ha sido desde el génesis; a no engañarnos. En este nuevo proyecto se prioriza el valor de la velocidad, el “rápido y furioso” futbolístico, el frenesí sin importar que no hay jugadores para esa idea y resignando la capacidad de pensar antes de jugar. Y ese punto resulta grave, gravísimo, porque ante ese panorama suena difícil imaginar a tipos cómo James Rodríguez, Juan Fernando Quintero o Edwin Cardona, que son los que ayudan al manejo de crisis futbolísticas como la ocurrida ante los argelinos. En estos tiempos la razón parece no tener cabida.

    El derecho de las cosas es que, tácticamente hablando, Queiroz se adapte a los jugadores y no lo contrario. Porque si no es 4-3-3 es como si no sirviera. Mucho se habló en contra del proceso anterior en cuanto a variables tácticas y así de rapidez, hubo 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1, 4-1-4-1 y hasta tres en el fondo en emergencia frente a Chile...
     
  11. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #386 HomietheClown, Oct 20, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
    I understand the concerns but the issues should not surprise anyone here. He believes in his system and is sticking to it in a stubborn fashion and it is the highest priority.

    If it gets us good results in official matches then we should be happy. If it does not get us results we should not.

    I give him the benefit of the doubt though because of many reasons. Mostly because he is a foreigner from another continent that has been trying to implement his ideas since February and we are still very early in the process.
     
  12. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Never the coach is more importan than the players and he needs to adapt them
     
  13. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Nothing is more important to me than wins and advancing in tournaments.

    But yes, the best managers usually adapt to their players' strengths.
     
  14. kromekote

    kromekote Member+

    May 22, 2012
    Club:
    America de Cali

    I had the Bolivia 1-1 in my head because it was ingrained in my head just how horrible we played that day. My error in the final result no need to dwleve into deeper than that.

    And yes, I'll stick to that 1990 WC team being better than the 2018 performance because of what it meant to our county after being absent for over 30 years and because it was played with the best 24 teams and ended up in the same group as the eventual champions. That last point being the biggest difference. Our play was still lauded by many and that WC launched Colombia to the next level in the eyes of many people that only referenced Uru,Bra and Arg. We entered the 2018 tournament with so many issues (mainly injuries) that we never really gained composure and balance. Maybe if we had our full squad, healthy and ready for the tournament things would have been different. Regardless, it's the way I think about it.
     
  15. Furnaccio

    Furnaccio Member+

    Feb 19, 2008
    New York, NY
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Were you watching those games from the 1990 team? The 90 WC was pretty much my first time watching futbol on TV. I was 10-11 years old during that time so I just remember Pibe and Leonel bc of their hair and Higuita bc he was a wildman of a GK. As we all know - there was no DVR, internet streaming, social media etc.

    I know it was a different time/era and most of that team was from Nacional and there was no 18-game WCQ process

    Do you have any memories of the process (friendlies, WCQ, Copa America’s) - I wonder what would Bigsoccer.com have been like during that era :)
     
  16. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    You probably have to ask Dapip these questions since he is one of the few posters around here who has been alive since the Gerald Ford Administration.
     
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  17. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Yeah but qualify by "repechaje" against israel is good and 2018 had issues to qualify.

    Is just absurd and mediocrr to say that a presentation that we only won to emiratos arabes and we were third of 4 in our group is better than a presentation that we were third in our group.

    Please dont tergiversate fact this drought of t matchs without victory and only scoring in a match of 5 never happened in these years.......so yes is new and antriubuible to the new coach....
     
  18. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    From the stuff I've seen from 1990 and the context of everything that was much, much better performance wise then 2018. Look 2018 we had one good performance against a weak Poland side, we didn't play great against Senegal but won, Japan was a disaster pretty early on and the England game we lined up like cowards Mina saved us and we lost in PK's. 1990 team was revolutionary, Higuaita was the first person to exploit what no one else had figured out and didn't figure out until the last 5-10 years that using the goalie when in possession is a big edge. We played attacking brave soccer and went right at Germany and played very good soccer. We had one really good game in 2018 and largely in qualifying were also very poor so for me 1990 is easily a better result for a few reasons.
     
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  19. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Dont make me laugh and dont being mediocres:

    1. We were third in group of 90, in 2018 we wont qualify with those results. camerun and yugoslavia won to us and easier than japan or enegland agiasnt us.....

    2. Senegal not los because of bad luck, it was a tought match ancd agisnt a good oponnet.........not always to win we have to play good or outplayed the opponnet...for a reason the match was easy to senegal.


    3. Poland had a bad tournament, but they qualified good and they had very good players in the roster......one of the reasons of their "bad torunament" was the level of colombia.

    4. Is ridiculous this hate to our recent perfomances....saying that a world cup in wich was able only to defeat emiratos was great...........

    so according to you adn to invent a crisis.,....being third in a woorld cup is better than beign the first.........and in 1990 the matches that we lose dont count..........but because we didnt was brilliant agaisnt senegal.........so we had abd tournament,

    Dont surprise that we still celebrates a draw and 5-0 result still as our biggest achievements....and that maturana is still a semi god because of winning emiratos in a world cup.


    MEDIOCRE FANBASE THAT NOW WNA<T TO JUSTIFY THE MEDIOCRE CQ WITH FALSE FACTS AND THE EXISTENCE OF A CRISIS PRIOR TO HIM..........LOVELY
     
  20. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    #395 villus, Oct 21, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
    Our whole cycle after 2014 was bad. We under achieved based on our talent. In 1990 we were really nothing in soccer terms prior and we performed and played at such a high level that we could have at that time go toe to toe with the best teams in the world. In 2014 onward we had a ton of talented players and we never really did anything with it. It's not just the results but the actual game that we played, 2018 was a waste, we had a chance and it was overall very disappointing because we never realistically created a team and game that would bring us to a next step. 1990 put Colombian soccer on the map, it gave us confidence and we did it with our own style which was revolutionary. Why would I look at 2018 as better then 1990 which propelled us so high that we dominated for the next 4 years and were picked as dark horses to win 1994? Simply the result of win or loss is not all that matters at the end of the day, 1990 was the birth of Colombian soccer, 2018 was nothing we were never going to do anything and we regressed from 2014. And before anyone says we were unlucky with injuries, sure we were, but we lost Falcao at his peak in 2014 and the whole cycle from 2104-2018 we never really played at a level that was good enough for us to realistically challenge like we did in 2014 (Which at that World Cup and leading up to it we played games at a level that could have won the World Cup)

    I don't judge the success of team simply based on the results on paper. One bad play from a great game doesn't mean its a total loss, in the long run the game and how you play matter, in order to go deep and win a World Cup you need to develop a platform, 1990-94 and 2010-2014 we created performances that realistically you could say wow, this team has such a ceiling and they produce a game that could rival the best in the world, 94 we fell apart because of lots of stuff we all know about and 2014 we had our best run. We have our best chance with this cycle and with these players and I've been saying it for a couple years, moving on from Pekerman was right imo and CQ at COPA played a style and lineup that got us close to imo where we need to be to hit the heights we need to go far, but the jury is still out on how he's going to mold us going forward.
     
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  21. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    It would have been interesting to see how far we would have gone in Russia with a fully healthy James and if Cardona would not have been such an idiot (to do such a stupid gesture).
    I think we would have made a very deep run with those guys.
     
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  22. villus

    villus Member+

    Jun 5, 2008
    I like Cardona and think he was and still should be involved if we take out his idiotic moments, that said Quintero>>Cardona so I don't even think Cardona would start if all 3 are fit, but he'd be a good option off the bench obviously.
     
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  23. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Yes, I was about to say that if Cardona were on the 2018 roster Quintero probably would not have made it. So it could have been a different team dynamic.

    "Quintero>>Cardona" I would have said in 2018 but even then I would have said they are just different. Cardona had some clutch goals for us last cycle that I don't think JuanFer could have even done in his dreams.
    But overall I do like the passing and imagination and style of JuanFer over Cardona. And most importantly his personality.
     
  24. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Our whole cycle after 2014 was bad.???

    Man, we only have gone to 6 of 21 world cups and

    in this century only to 2 out of 5.

    For our historic standards define as bad a cycle, that we qualify for sixth time to a wc and we had our second best histporic presentation in a world cup...judginf the performance is ridicoulous.......also we were third in copa america, we only have been third 4 times, in 41 editions...


    Underachieved isnt meanin that a world cup, in we got a better position, had more pints, score more goals, recived less goaLs.....that was worse than a world cup that we only defeated emiratos arabes.


    Do not confuse nostalgia with real performance. 2018 was by far our best second performance in a world cup, the fact that wasnt so good as 2014.......DOESNT MEAN that was worse than the other presentations before....


    In our shitty history, 2014-2018 cycle have been far to be a bad cycle............im not so sure if 2018-2022 will be better................

    Performances are performance.........expectations are different....
     
  25. pepinointer

    pepinointer Member+

    Mar 12, 2007
    Santiago de Compostela
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    I think that Cardona have to be called up ahead of izquierdo or muriel/bacca.......more izquierdo, really.

    With Cardona the match iagisnt england would be different..........almost all times he replaced james absence with good results.

    hope that the 3 can share roster in the close future.....
     

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