NYRB vs. Revs, 7/5 P/I/P

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by Revs in 2010, Jul 4, 2017.

  1. Revs in 2010

    Revs in 2010 Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Roanoke, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I was thinking after Wednesday's match that I wish we could at least be MLS's Buffalo Bills again.
     
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  2. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  3. A Casual Fan

    A Casual Fan Member+

    Mar 22, 2000
    Yes, there are a number of spots in each player category. But....the numbering is arbitrary. Each number is simply a label for open real estate on the page It doesn't mandate/prescribe anything about the skill level of the player whose name is next to that label. (to put it differenlty, they could have been lettered A-Z instead of numbered.) Unfilled roster openings are just that. They are just openings on a list. So - instead of one list, there are multiple lists (Sr, Suppl., Reserve), each with openings.

    The roster competition section you point out supports the point I am trying to make - it shows an opening at #20 on the senior roster. If there is an opening, I do not want the Revs to expend any effort on finding a guy who is worse than the 19 already on this list - (to fill the #20 slot, as some would say.). I want them to get a guy who is better than the 19 already on this list. (i.e., I want them to fill the #1 slot. That to me is where the opening is.)

    Once they do that, they can go get another guy who is better than all 20 already on the list - and get rid of the former #20 guy. i.e., push everyone on the list down a slot.

    But the team decides whether to fill those with highly skilled players, or bottom of the roster skillsets.

    The Revs themselves have described their scouting and player acquisition staff in a way that seems clear that it is leaner than many other teams. So why should any of that already-scarce resource be used on scouting/evaluating/signing lesser skilled players? Revs need shoring up at the top, and to me it is madness for Revs management to squander scarce resource on low- or no-return players. It is also strangely at odds with the parsimonious nature of this thrifty organization to allow this waste of resource.
     
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  4. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is EXACTLY the argument I (and others here) have made in regards to the open roster spot situation.
     
  5. Brian in Boston

    Brian in Boston Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    MA & CA, USA
    I won't argue that there are areas within the New England Patriots' operation where the Krafts have exhibited a tendency towards parsimony similar to their stewardship of the Revolution.

    That said, are you seriously going to argue that the Krafts' overall investment of resources - not simply money, but time and effort, as well - to the operation of the New England Revolution is proportionally equivalent to the resources that they've committed to the New England Patriots?

    I'm glad you brought the subject of Tom Brady up. How did the New England Patriots ever manage to acquire the "GOAT" in the sixth round of the 2000 NFL Draft? Was it all just dumb luck? Or, was there some way in which Bill Belichick came to the conclusion that Tom Brady might represent a player with significant upside, especially considering that he was available in slot #199 of the draft? Could it be that Belichick had some sort of brain-trust - a "player personnel department", if you would - to help him in the evaluation of players? Might he and said brain-trust have referenced a compilation of analyses - a "scouting report", for lack of a better term - of Brady's strengths, weaknesses, and intangibles? Who would have compiled such a "scouting report", though? "Scouts"? Whoever heard of such a thing?

    By the way... historically, what sort of player personnel/scouting infrastructure have the Krafts committed to building within the New England Revolution organization?

    That Bill Belichick is one hell of a coach! Where did the Krafts find him? Was he hired out of a career providing customized investment advice and portfolio management services to ultra high-net-worth individuals? I'm just wondering what sort of preparation Bill had for getting the most out of bargain basement players.

    Speaking of which, how does Jay Heaps measure-up when it comes to optimizing the talent on the New England Revolution's roster?

    And in order to make the "same philosophy" work for the Revs, would you say that the Krafts have historically provided their MLS franchise with resources proportionally equivalent to those made available to the Patriots? I'm speaking of resources such as those in the areas of coaching hires, player personnel/scouting staffing, etc.
     
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  6. NFLPatriot

    NFLPatriot Member+

    Jun 25, 2002
    Foxboro, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree, they haven't. The Kraft's neglect of their red-headed stepchild Revs is borderline criminal. I'm just saying that the Kraft's aren't the spend-whatever-it-takes, George Steinbrenner-type owners of the Pats, either. Remember the Pete Carroll years? Belichick was a great D-coord who had failed as a head-coach in Cleveland when the Krafts hired him. They got lucky. Whatever you may think of his scouting system, waiting until the 199th pick to select Tom Brady meant they had no idea he would become what he is today, so that was mostly luck. Without Belichick and Brady, the Pats wouldn't be the "gold standard".

    The Krafts hoped Heaps would develop the way Belichick did. They were wrong. And Heaps' eventual replacement won't be a proven coach like Bradley or Schmid. It will be someone with something to prove. That's the Kraft way.
     
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  7. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, to be fair to the Krafts, they found him the same way they found Heaps and a lot of Revs players - he was a former organization guy who they already knew.
     
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  8. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Better an UberBill than stand UnderPat......;)
     
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  9. Brian in Boston

    Brian in Boston Member+

    Jun 17, 2004
    MA & CA, USA
    Except, that in Belichick's case, the hire that the Krafts "found" had 21 years of relevant experience under his belt as an NFL special assistant, positional coach, assistant coach, coordinator, and head coach before he ever drew a paycheck from a Kraft-owned team. And by the time the Krafts hired Belichick as the Patriots head coach, he'd spent 24 of the first 25 years of his NFL career - 96% - outside the Krafts employ. Hell, even as of today, Belichick has spent more than half of his NFL career working for someone other than the Krafts.

    Bottom line? Bill Belichick's hiring by Bob Kraft wasn't a case of Brian Bilello being named the Revolution's Chief Operating Officer after a couple of years overseeing Gillette Stadium's concessions and retail operations, as well as "improving the fan experience across all areas of the facility". Belichick's hiring wasn't Mike Burns being tabbed as the Revolution's Director of Soccer fresh off of a couple of years on the MLS Disciplinary Committee, the U.S. Soccer Athlete Counsel, and the USSF Board of Directors. And Belichick's hiring sure as hell isn't equivalent to Jay Heaps being handed the Revolution head coaching reins after amassing three whopping seasons of experience as a volunteer assistant coach with local collegiate sides and serving the Revs as "an ambassador and color analyst on both its television and radio broadcasts".
     
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  10. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True, but he was still a former Kraft employee. Luck may be a larger element in his hiring than any sort of wisdom on the Krafts' part, given their track record since. Do they need to hire from the outside? Absolutely. But when their star hire (Belichick) upholds their "hire the familiar" pattern, it may be hard to break them out of that. They may well be mistaking their preferred MO as the cause of the Pats' success, rather than a coincidence that came up aces.
     
  11. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, they did buy a new DVD player 3 years ago to replace the circa 1999 VCR they were using. What else do you want?
    The thing is, Bill Belichick is a professional coach, period. That's what the guy does, and that's what hsi career path has always been. I remember at the time he was hired by the Pats, a guy on my indoor team who was from Ohio and a Browns fan snickered at what we were getting ourselves into, but I guess he was a little off on his prediction. But even if he wasn't successful (and a lot of coaches aren't), hiring a guy who actually has coached at the top level will at least mitigate the odds in your favor. If the Revs had hired Peter Vermes, Dominc Kinnear, Dave Sarachan, Frank Yallop,etc. they would have at least brought in someone who had done this before. Even a guy who spent a few years as an assistant (Denis Hamlet, Steve Ralston) would have been a better move.

    Let's see if they have the nads to fire heaps and let Llamosa take over for the rest of the season. If they lose to the RedBulls in the OC, (or if they win and then lose to Cincinnati), it might happen (I'd give it 50-50), or if they continue to slide and are eliminated from the playoffs with more than 3 games to go, maybe 75% after the season. But what I fear the most is that they will win just enough to make it look "respectable," and that will be enough to keep with the status quo.
     
  12. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From what I'm hearing in the org, just like last year, if they make a deep run in the USOC, it might be enough to keep his job. "Three finals in 6 years!"
     
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  13. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If that's the case, am I a Bad Person if I want things to fall apart like a pile of cheap hay? Kraft, Bilello and Burns may think that we're stupid or indifferent enough (much of the fanbase is) to buy this crap, but I want things to change, the sooner the better. If it means crashing out of the Open Cup, missing the playoffs by a Khano Smith shot at goal, and general malise among the players, so be it.

    It needs to be like Christmas Eve, 1989 in the Ceausescu household.
     
  14. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Shameless Mediocrities shameless in celebrating mediocrity!" Now there's a slogan the Revs ...ahem...."brain trust".....can stand shamelessly by....:speechless:
     
  15. MM66

    MM66 Member+

    Mar 9, 2009
    Brookline, MA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I still think that's just spin and they'd spin it another way if they needed. They want to do the minimum. Heaps and Burns are down with that. Someone new would rock the boat.
     
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  16. Revs in 2010

    Revs in 2010 Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Roanoke, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's even worse than that. You really have to be a spin-master to cast this season as mediocre. In fact mediocrity feels like an unattainable goal for this team as currently configured.:(
     
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  17. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you underestimate the ambition of our Krafty FO. They have a plan, a 60-90 day plan, that will strive mightily to just achieve a bare minimum that can be classified as adequately mediocre to give Jay a nice extended tenure as the captain of our aimless ship. Say, being on par with FC Cincinnati should do it....:sick:
     
  18. Feldspar

    Feldspar Member+

    Nov 19, 1998
    Boston, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If it does, you're not the only one. I was actually somewhat pleased that the Revs choked against NYRB with Kraft in attendance. Maybe he'll realize that his MLS side has more in common with the Bills or Jets than the Pats. (Not likely, I know. But I'm an optimist.)
     

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