Nope. Not saying that. For one things there will always, ALWAYS be somebody RANTING that some flavor-of-the-week teenager they've never seen is THE ANSWER. I myself have been a "play the kids" kind of guy. People here routinely overrate "what's in the box" versus what we know. But for me it's a case by case, situation by situation assessment. Anybody want to make a list of the teens that were supposedly better than our regulars? They're all Pulisics till they're not. JonGon, with five pro games under his belt something like that, and supposedly declared for the US and already a national team regular, was not forcing the issue in my mind. Neither was any keeper. Neither were any of the fit center mids and strikers that didn't get capped making a obvious case that they were better bets than the guys we knew every well, and who knew each other very well. I was fretting about qualifying. And being honest, I was even ok with Bruce Arena's somewhat conservative approach to squad selection for qualifying - AND even with his interest in winning the Gold Cup, because I recognize his process and objective. It was pretty clear. Bring on the new. Overdue. Great time to meet, develop and blood the next generation.
So his process and objective were missing the World Cup. Great. I've said this so many times, but there are two kinds of people that follow this team - 1. Your ilk, who think we just had some bad luck, or our players weren't good enough and there was nothing we could have done differently. 2. Me and others who identified weaknesses years ago, harped on them, pushed for youth in the squad, and feared something bad would happen. Now something bad did happen. Yet you and others just assume this couldn't have been helped. And you say there were no other options. I, and many others, identified other options. You saying they weren't good options is fine, but they were legitimate options if a run of the mill fan like me was seeing it. And I always come back to it - we are a country with the 2nd best players in the region by any metric you want to use. We could have qualified with a numerous combination of players. Those players were clearly not in the selected teams. Thus, I am most likely correct. The ONLY way you are correct is if literally no other combination of players could have qualified out of CONCACAF, the easiest/2nd easiest region in the world. We will never know, but I think most people would agree with me.
Yeah, that's sad but, shit, maybe true. By the way, my ilk doesn't think #1. For my money, Klinsmann complained about a lost generation that he himself mostly lost. Arena's appointment was a reaction to that, and his situation pretty different. But you guys go ahead and pat yourselves on the back because you said play this kid, play that kid, and we sometimes we did and sometimes we didn't and we met some failure. Wow, you're so awesome.
Just because you think the conservative approach was the right one, does not mean that the many of us who thought the sensible approach of just bringing in the new guys and young guys at the expense of worthless players like Zusi, Bedoya, Wondo and their ilk, not dropping the Bradley's, Jozy's and the like, does not mean that your way and Bruce's way was correct and we are ranting and raving lunatics. If anything the conservative approach was clearly the wrong approach and Bruce choosing the wrong approach was a failure on his end, not some bad luck that no one could foresee.
Not sure what got you all salty, but it's not about patting ourselves on the back, it is that if what we are saying is true, then yes we have a systemic problem and we need to fix it or we will keep sucking, which was the subject at hand. In any event, we have one full time scout and he is a liar, so put me in the systemic problem camp.
Howard is like many here but unlike many here. He's a kool aid drinker who can't admit he was a big part of the problem and picking him was a big part of the problem. But he was a stud player once so he's unlike any other here. His opinion is unfortunately negative to any progress to the USMNT.
Why is this lying SOB still have a job and a voice? That right there is your fine example of systemic problems.
I am a casual fan of the Colorado Rapids, living here in Colorado. He didn't exactly cover himself in glory playing for the Raps the last two years. I'm surprised we don't have somebody to put Tim Howard on the bench.
we did. Anyone with average reflexes for example. But we had a coach looking for some odd anomaly called 'comfort' in his lineup.
Wait, I’m confused....is the object of today’s five minutes of hate Hoard, or are we going back to Rongen?
In the article this thread is based on, Howard says Arena did a good job purging the players that weren't bought in. I figure the captain of the team must be on board with it if he remains the captain while it is happening.
There were stories around the time of Arena's first camp that he had consulted with the team's veterans on who should and shouldn't be called in post-Klinsmann. I can't find them though.
That's a pretty good start, maybe McCarty, Guzan, Rimando, Beasley, among others also. Really any player that spent time in the camp and was privy to the inner workings would be a candidate. I would lean more toward the older players being first to say something after they retire from playing. Depending upon what the issues turn out to be the German Americans may or may not be seen as being on one side which could skew the perception of what they have to say in the same way that anything Arena says is viewed through different lenses based upon peoples perceptions of his motivations.
I'm not sure what you are having a problem with. There is no meaning of the word, "purge" that implies anything but exile or elimination. If you are asking for the names, Howard doesn't provide that. You can look at how the roster evolved from JK to the T&T game and come up with a list. Basically, if you played in Europe and your name wasn't Pulisic or Yedlin. I don't think there were any MLS players that JK was using that weren't around for Bruce.
Nobody hates Tim Howard. All players want to play, and when selected are happy to play. Hell, they always feel they *should* be selected. That's why you have coaches. Timmay was allowed to stay too long. Not his fault. He was a great club and NATS player. Doesn't mean he wasn't the best selection for qualifying. Selection isn't Tim's job. Tim Howard was/is a consummate pro.
Well said. Based upon some of the posts in the recent past, however, I'm not so sure it applies to all of our players. Too bad.
I mean, at this point we're just disagreeing about what scale of things to call 'systemic.' I don't think the quality of this or that coaching decision (or this or that coach) is the same as "problems that plague every level of American soccer." Those are the sorts of things I'd think of as 'systemic' re: USSF. Like, for example, that our country doesn't guarantee quality health care to all people so young kids need tons of money to come back from injuries, or families have money that could go to training going to covering insulin shots or whatever. IMHO that's way more significant and deserving of the term 'systemic' than which totally capable MNT goalkeeper was playing through this qualifying cycle. But I guess instead of furthering a debate over what terms to use, I'll instead say that while I find the failure of the USMNT this cycle to be baffling and frustrating in like 8 million ways, I don't think our discussions arguing things like "they don't care" or "they don't get it" or "they're bad players" are very useful. It's fine to be frustrated and mad, but that's not the same as addressing issues or having the answers to BIG issues, rather than mmqb'ing day to day decisions.
No one should be mad at anyone. Everything's great. We're a roaring success. Can't wait to get to the round of 8 in Russia where we belong.
To be fair to Klinsmann that particular generation was lost before he got there. It was a poor generation with the U17s and the U20s...................and was subsequently poor as U23s. I mean, no greater warning sign should have been flashing for USMNT fans than the fact that we failed to qualify for the Olympics with our U23s for two cycles in a row. So yes, Klinsmann and Arena both have to take responsibility for our failures. However, there's plenty of blame to go around. USMNT coaches have to work with the ingredients that are given to them. [The ingredients were more than good enough to qualify as noted by the fact that we demolished Honduras and Panama at home by a combined score of 10-0. We also drew with both of them and Mexico on the road. If I told you those facts, you'd have thought we'd have qualified comfortably.]
It doesn´t prove anything, other than that the old guard didn´t qualify. What might have been is a complete unknowable. Would you, as manager, have dumped the side that destroyed Panama? In a general sense, I don´t like national team members older than 30, and really 28. The WCup should be about younger players. It´s subpar footie so best played by those who can be whipped into a frenzy and move through on emotion. Older players should stick to club. But after Arena´s whumping of Panama, it was hard to point out exactly where he needed to change for TT
Exactly my point. That kind of language should be in the general forum, not N&A. I disagree with you here. I just think if all anyone has to contribute to the discussion is screaming at Emmanuel Goldstein, they should shut up.
The US line-up that faced Panama was designed to push for a win against an opponent that wanted to bunker. Couva was a completely different situation, a road game where the US needed only a tie and was facing an opponent that had no reason to come out and bunker. It isn't hindsight to point out that the team's first priority should've been to make sure that it was well organized defensively. Or to be more concise, beating up on a weak Panama team is no excuse for failing to prepare for the next game.
The point being made is that some players and the coach believed some other players "didn't care". That those players were purged by the coach and team leadership. What we are trying to figure out here is how much was that a factor in our failure to qualify.