November 2018 Portugal and Scotland games

This is tired and well trodden ground.

Not all the players are on board at all; not sure where you are getting that. If anything, Jill was open to it and she brought her in and it was a disaster and she was sent home. You risk fracturing a very tight locker room right before the World Cup. Can't think of anything dumber.

Hinkle is not an option.

 

I totally agree. The games were managed, coached, and played like nobody cared. I can't fathom what Ellis was trying to get out of them.

Having said that, subbing Mewis in at 92+' to kill the game, against Scotland, is just embarrassing to the program. It was insulting to Mewis too.

 

We'll be losing to France in Le Havre.

 

That's ridiculous. Hinkle IS an option. Just not getting a fair shot. Where do you get that bringing in Hinkle was a "disaster'? Were you there? Where do you get "you risk fracturing a very tight locker room..."? BS! How do you know?
The same "chemistry" argument was used against Debbie Keller 20 years ago and I say it was BS then and it is BS now! These are paid pro players who are expected to do their jobs and not worry about someone's religious belief.

She has no problems playing for the NC Courage. No fracturing there. She should be on the team as she is the best right full back in the country right now and the USWNT coaches know it.

In my opinion, those who would deny her a place on the USWNT solely because of her religious convictions are bigots themselves.

 

wow!!

that’s 2 major fake broadcasts ussoccer has pulled off! espn and fox sports are major coconspirators in this!!

gelling starters was clearly not a reason for this trip.

getting a look at fox, mcdonald, and colaprico was, and they accomplished that.

yes!!

still living in the nineties, eh?

 

Whatever the reason she disrupts the locker room; she disrupts it.

When you are called into a NT camp and then sent home early without an injury it signals there was a major problem with the player unrelated to play on the field (those players stay but don't dress or don't get called back). Maybe it was Hinkle that had the problem, we have no reporting either way. Maybe somebody's girlfriend was at the team dinner and Hinkle couldn't take it and left camp. Would she do the same thing on the eve of the first WC game and leave the team in a bad spot?

Hinkle was the non-pro that didn't do her job. Hinkle refused to play. Hinkle made a public issue out of it; also very unprofessional. She excluded herself, nobody excluded her.

Again, her beliefs have nothing to do with it. It is a sporting issue. The coach has to pick the best 23 based on many factors. It is not an All-Star team. Kareem Benzema plays for Real Madrid but was not on the France team that won the World Cup. It is a team and the coach has to pick it as such. That Benzema can play for Real Madrid is not the issue for France, it is how he is on and off the field when in a France camp.

 

THIS.

 

You say that she disrupts the locker room like you are there and know for sure. I call that BS.

From my understanding she did not refuse to play for the USWNT, she refused to wear a symbol on the uniform that is against her religious belief. PERIOD! They could have easily given her a USWNT uniform of the same type/color without that symbol and everyone else could have wore the ones with it. Simple. As this country gets more and more diverse and that includes religiously diverse, US Soccer may need to find away to figure this out or else it may come up again with another player sometime in the future.

Look, I am not a deeply religious person or a far-right winger or anything like that, if anyone thinks so. I am a veteran, an equal-minded person and a citizen of this great country, who believes that everyone has equal rights, gay people, people of color, people of non-color, people with different nationalities, all genders, AND people with religious convictions, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Budhists, etc, etc, etc.

I am not saying she was left off the team because of that or even "chemistry issues", I don't know, most of us, I believe don't know. I have to trust what Jill Ellis says publicly. I'm just putting my .02 cents to some of the conversations we have here involving this player and this subject

You or I may not agree with her beliefs, but Jaelene Hinkle has the right not to be discriminated against for her religious conviction while playing for her Club or Country or anywhere else for that matter. She is not denying anyone their right to wear that particular uniform, she just doesn't want to do it.

And she is arguably the best right defender in the country right now.

I will argue this to no end.

 

All the outfield players have to wear the same uniform. While that is a smart idea, it couldn't be done.

Hinkle is a Left Back. If you are going to beat this to a pulp, at least get the position right.

Being selected to play for the USWNT is not a right, it is a privilege. Nobody is denying her anything. Is Emily Menges being discriminated against? Allie Krieger? 23 players are selected, everyone else is discriminated against by the coach.

Maybe Hinkle can be worked in after the World Cup. Does she have a right to the World Cup squad too? But to work in her in now is just a dumb move. It is not discrimination for her bigotry, it is simply not upsetting the apple cart.

The team is unbeaten in 2018, heading towards their ultimate goal in 7 months. And you want to throw a hand grenade into the situation because you think Hinkle has a right to play for the team. Doesn't make any sense. If the team was losing and Dunn was incapable of defending, you might have a case.

 

How is bringing in uncapped college players not upsetting the apple cart? Why look at Emily Fox yesterday instead of after the World Cup? You've got a double standard going there.

Greg Ryan lost only one game in the 50+ he coached leading up to China 2007. Winning every game papers over cracks. Do we really know whether Dunn is capable of defending? Really. What opponents has she really defended against? The vast majority of the friendlies are either walkovers, or played against experimental squads. Do you really want to have Dunn at outside back without much real experience at the defending part of the job against a full strength Germany or France?

And if the last three years of the Flash and Courage had been a shit show with locker room drama, I'd listen to the arguments that she's somehow disruptive in a team environment. But the club hasn't been. The club has been spectacular and very cohesive. With a fair number of high profile gay players and quite a few more that fly below the public radar by their own choice. On the practice field, on game day, in the locker room, the Courage are united. And Hinkle has been a big part of that over the last three seasons. I know there are disagreements over religious interpretations and sexuality, but in two years of very close engagement I've witnessed absolutely no disruption.

If you can point to any statements by any of the WNT regulars that indicate that they have any trouble actually playing on the field with her, I'd love to read them. I personally have strong disagreements with her statements and opinions, and I know other people related to the Courage that do as well, but I honestly don't know of anyone she actually has interpersonal conflict with.

And I'm not automatically calling for her to be on the 23 in France. I understand "picking the best team" as opposed to "picking the best 23 players". But as we haven't actually seen her dress for the WNT in years, we can only go by how she plays with against other international players in the NWSL, and by that measure her lack of any minutes - especially when age and injuries has us throwing uncapped amateur players into the mix - is concerning.

EDIT: And I suspect I've probably seen Crystal Dunn play more soccer games in person than anyone else on BigSoccer. I honestly can't tell you whether she's good enough to trust at outside back against elite competition. The majority of her games at the back have not been of the caliber where she really does a lot of real defending. She is one of the best players in the world, so she can do better than most at any position, but that's not usually good enough if you plan to win a World Cup.

 

Geez, every month we get into the same stupid debate. Hinkle isn't getting a look this late into the cycle unless something catastrophic happens. She already had that opportunity back in July and blew it. She was not called back. Jill Ellis is rewarding Fox and Mace first looks because they both are college standouts right now and are potential USWNT players for next cycle. Before this Hinkle crap dominated these forums wasn't the biggest debate on the lack of youth development and youth caps on the senior squad? I don't think it's fair to attack them because Hinkle or insert someone's favorite NWSL player isn't on the national team. Why people don't believe Dunn or Kelly O'Hara aren't good enough left backs for the WWC 19' boggles my mind.

 

Actually, I view Fox in exactly the opposite way. She is an uncapped college player. Who is she a threat to? Does O'Hara push her rehab because Emily Fox is playing last night? No. If Jill calls in an actual pro RB there or brings back Huerta or Krieger, then O'Hara has something to think about.

Calling in McDonald does show that Ellis is still working on her roster. But Fox or McDonald or any of the players she called in is not a dressing room cancer that she knows of.

The USWNT CBA is unknown but it does limit how many pro players Ellis can bring in at any time. So, it could be Fox was there as a warm body because Ellis was precluded from calling in more "floaters".

I doubt Dunn is good enough at the moment. I'm sure the idea is that she will play LB in the NWSL this season. Unlike converted forwards before, she played LB at youth level. With half an NWSL season and all the USWNT games; I'm sure Dunn will be competent.

But even if Dunn was not competent, there are other players in the pool.

Hinkle might be fine in NC. But she has not worked with the USWNT. Again, whatever she does in NC is not really relevant to how she interacts with her teammates with the NT. She was brought in recently and was sent home early. I don't understand why people want to make arguments for her inclusion and ignore that she was called recently and it didn't work.

 

I'm sure that's news to Paul Riley and Merritt Mathias. Last time I checked Jill Ellis and USSF don't dictate player positions at their clubs.

 

That would suck. Dunn is a top class attacking player. What a bummer if she was forced out of her natural, awesome role - so that her club team could accommodate the WNT. That would be ridiculous.

 

See O'Hara, Kelly circa 2016-18

 

O'Hara was nowhere near the attacking talent that Dunn is. And, my guess is that Kelly approached the team and asked to be played there. I doubt she was forced to.

I don't see Crystal doing that.

 

O'Hara was in incredible striker. A much more dangerous finisher than Dunn has ever been. She won the Hermann Trophy her senior year based on her goalscoring - overshadowing her running partner at the top of Stanford's attack. Perhaps you've heard of a Christen Press?

Dunn is a better overall player, but depending on your definition of "attacking talent", the case could be made for either. As to the mention earlier, O'Hara was much more of a Debbie Keller type striker than anything. Part of Dunn's curse has been her flexibility in that different coaches have had little compunction to always player her in the same position.

 

Doesn't US soccer pay the salaries of the Womens National Team regulars instead of their club teams? I honestly don't know but heard that.

At the end of the day the US team is still better than any other team in the World so should breeze through the WC again.

 

When did the US breeze through a World Cup? Even back in 1991 they had some tight matches and narrow victories.

 

Even in '99 the match against Brazil was tight. The US trailed for a good while, due to an own goal by Chastain, until she redeemed herself with a goal for the US much later.

After that the US was pressed to the limit in a 0-0 tie with China through 120 minutes and several rounds of a PK shootout which Chastain famously won. That game goes down as officially a tie.

So the US has never, even at their best relative to the rest of the world, had it "easy" in a world cup.

 

Your memory is not as good as you think it is. You might want to review the events of '99 before you post about this again?

 

So I got the opponent wrong. It was Germany. Chastain scored the own goal at the 5 minute mark and scored a goal for the US at the 49th minute to tie the game. (There was a German and US goal in between and a US goal to take the lead after the second Chastain goal.) The match against Brazil was the semi that US won 2-0. The point still stands the US did NOT have it easy.

The strange thing is I was at all the US matches from the quarterfinals on and in my minds eye I still see Brazil on the field when Chastain scored the own goal even after looking up the match reports. It just shows that memory can play tricks when events, and the mind containing them, are old enough.

 

So? They don't have any control over what the teams do with the players.

USSF could pull Dunn from the Courage and move her to a different team, but she'd probably just go back to Europe if they tried to do that.

 

Sure, and your point is good and needed making. But you or someone posted the exact same error some months ago, and I posted something suggesting they correct their memory then, and here it is again-- and around here things go from idle speculation to established fact in the wink of an eye. Which is actually the reason your point needed making after all.

So I wanted to be a bit more forceful in challenging it this time in hopes of not finding myself fighting the myth of Brandi's Own Goal Against Brazil for the rest of my pathetic History Nazi life.

I mean people already consider it established fact that yellow card accumulation forced Ellis to find out what she was doing wrong and kept us from losing the World Cup, and that Wambach was useless in that cup, and that Ellis wanted us to play a three-back as a base formation in this cup, and other stuff that, um, isn't necessarily true...