North Carolina/Houston NWSL 9/17/2019

Discussion in 'Referee' started by kolabear, Sep 19, 2019.

  1. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Officiating being blamed for a lot of things in the NWSL game on Tuesday between the NC Courage & Houston Dash, including a foul resulting in a season-ending ACL injury for Merritt Mathias.

    A high boot by Kristen Hamilton (NC) on Alyssa Chapman (Houston) is being blamed (by some) for a foul later on by Rachel Daly(Houston) on Merritt Mathias (NC), resulting in Mathias' injury


    A foul was called on Hamilton but no card was issued

    It's about 29:30 on the game clock, about 37:00 of the video on ESPN News

    The foul by Daly on Mathias (after Mathias is adjudged to have fouled Daly) is about 71:10 on the game clock. While the free kick was given to Houston, Daly was given a yellow card


    There was also a controversial PK call around the 85th minute which was converted by NC, allowing them to win 1-0.
     
  2. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    I wasn't able to watch the game because it's stupidly hidden behind cable paywall and I refuse to give cable anymore of my money.
     
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  3. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I wasn't such a technological nincompoop, I'd make some clips....
     
  4. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    Kola, I know you're just the messenger.

    But the thought that a foul between two players at one point in the game can some how cause a foul between two different players later in the game is total and utter bullshit.
     
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  5. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    You ever play ice hockey?
     
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  6. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, isn't a recurring theme here in the Ref Forum about game management and keeping tempers from blowing up? Although one of the things I like about the women's game is, at its higher levels, I don't see things escalating as explosively as we sometimes see in the men's game. This is one of the first times I' saw a number of fans thinking it happened in a NWSL game. (I personally don't think that was the case here even if Houston was unhappy about the Hamilton high boot and perhaps one or two other calls)
     
  7. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Women's soccer, dude!

    PH
     
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  8. LampLighter

    LampLighter BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    Still not the refs fault.
     
  9. lil_one

    lil_one Member+

    Nov 26, 2013
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thankfully, there's Youtube.



    First foul (Hamilton foot to Chapman face) is at about 35:40 in the YouTube video and replay at 36:00. And the foul is called.

    Second incident (Mathias and Daly) starts at 1:21:20 (its shown twice from different angles so watch through 1:23:00). And the foul was called on Mathias for impeding. Daly was carded for the push afterwards.

    PK call is at 1:35:00. (And its the only one of the three brought up here that I think is actually debatable, but that's maybe just me).

    There's also potentially a foul in which Houston's Huerta goes down at 1:07:00 that if called, would have been a PK. Its one of the reasons Houston felt hard done by.

    Also I think bringing these calls up merits giving the referee's responses as well:

     
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  10. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    The reason we see blow-ups in the men's game is that they let it out and it's over.
    Women hold on to it. I had a girl wipe another girl once and when I talked to her she said, "Well last time we played ...." That was like 6 weeks earlier.
     
  11. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    Bingo! Now you're talking!

    PH
     
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  12. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    I have 2 sisters. I can confirm.
     
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  13. gaolin

    gaolin Member

    Apr 21, 2019
    Michael Radchuk has replaced Thomas Snyder as referee in the USL Championship match tonight.
     
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  14. voiceoflg

    voiceoflg Member

    Dec 8, 2005
    I've been married 27 years. I can confirm.
     
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  15. LampLighter

    LampLighter BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    How much does it pay to do NWSL games anyways? If they want to attract the best referees, wouldn't they offer to pay a lot to them? Otherwise the complaining about not attracting the best referees is just dumb.
     
  16. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    They’re assigned by PRO to the development group officials. The path to MLS sometimes goes through the women game
     
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  17. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Which, it must be said, is extremely disrespectful to the women's game. If it's the top division, NWSL should see top level officials. Development group on lower level games. Maybe I'm crazy.
     
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  18. incognitoind

    incognitoind Member

    Apr 8, 2015
    So are you advocating that Kelly and Stott and Toledo all take their turns in the NWSL? I’m sorry to say that isn’t happening anytime soon. The NWSL simply could not support the fees the BU demands amongst other reasons. They do get their share of FIFA referees like Abt and Koroleva as well as top female prospects like Chesky but the same 4 women can’t do every game.

    Finally remember that it’s called the development group b/c they’re developing for the MLS. That in no way means those referees are not completely qualified for the matches in that league. Would you be more comfortable if it was called WPRO and was still the stepping stone to MLS?
     
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  19. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    You really don't understand how referee development works in this country and the economics of refereeing and the economics of soccer in this country?

    You do realize that NWLS is operating at a loss? The non national team players that don't get their income supplemented by their national teams make like 30-40K a year.

    As @incognitoind said do you bring in Kevin Stott, Marrufo, Elfath and Kelly to do those games and take away bodies from doing MLS games?

    An NWSL match pays $410 for the referee. An MLS match, depending on your experience in the league can almost pay $1000.

    Most officials on NWLS matches are locally assigned apart from the middle and an AR to cut down on travel expenses.

    The NWSL is a developmental league for referees in this country because apart from MLS, there are only two other "professional" leagues in this country. The USL and the NWSL.

    Referees have to get their experience somewhere and start somewhere and NWSL is as good of a training ground as anywhere.

    On a side, some of the decisions in the match above are pretty poor.
     
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  20. LampLighter

    LampLighter BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    I think the point I was bringing up initially was, if you can barely run your league you can't complain about the referees you hire.
     
  21. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I somehow missed your reply and I also overlooked the replay was available on YouTube (Since it was broadcast on ESPN News, I thought the replay was exclusive to them)
    Of course a lot of people thought Hamilton's foot to Chapman's jaw should've been a red card. Or at least a yellow. And they felt because it wasn't given a card, that's why there was an escalation later with Daly winding up injuring Mathias, who is out for the season now with an ACL tear

    Although Sport Billy makes the droll observation that women retaliate weeks later, not during the match itself!
     
  22. SoccerRefNova

    SoccerRefNova Member

    DC United
    Mexico
    Mar 27, 2018
    It's a well observed phenomenon. I'm sure everyone here has an anecdote where they had a random red card because Sally did something to Sara 3 seasons ago in a club scrimmage. There is a NISOA video on it where the female ref clinician says it was what she did when she played:



    While the foul was clearly intentional, we can't blame the officiating for that kind of player behavior. She could've reacted that way simply because she lost the ball. I'm sure the foot to the face helped her reach a decision, but to blame the ref for that is petty.
     
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  23. GoDawgsGo

    GoDawgsGo Member+

    Nov 11, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Crazy? Maybe. Lacking knowledge? Yes. DG refs are centering MLS matches. How do you think they make it to the BG? There are multiple tiers in the DG.
     
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