Do you think the MNT's failure to qualify for the World Cup will cause U.S. Soccer to re-evaluate all of their practices top to bottom or will they limit their focus to the top team?
It's only going to get worse IMO. We'll end up with an Indycar version of Formula One here in the States. Inferior in virtually every measure.
Funny, I was thinking about this kind of thing at the last tournament we went to. How does this structure benefit youth soccer in the long run and produce better players? Is this the best use of time for these hundreds of kids and coaches all in one place, especially for the younger age groups. Spending a full weekend just playing games against random teams to see who's the best out of the clubs that show up? What if for two days all these coaches and kids got together to learn from each other. Have an intense two day clinic with these kids. Share what's working and not working. Help one another improve tactically and technically. Just seems there's got to be a better way.
Based on the amount of $$ they just lost out on, there will be some "re-evaluation"... Here's one idea that could drastically change the landscape: Introduce player compensation. US Soccer is currently in court with a handful of clubs that are demanding compensation for producing the professional players that US Soccer is actually generating revenue off. In any other federation, if a club produces a player they are entitled to some form of compensation: some countries it's directly from their federation in a lump sum, others allow percentages of transfer fees or club wages to go back to the youth academy, some federations a combination of both...HOWEVER, here in the states, US Soccer is actually fighting it! They keep all revenue from transfers and player wages, and don't provide any compensation to the youth academies. Imagine, "youth club X" who produced a player like Michael Bradley or Christian Pulisic got just 1% of their transfer fee, or 1% of their annual wage: that amounts to tens of thousands of dollars for a club to re-invest into their environment/player development pathway. Pay-to-play? Alleviated (not necessarily eliminated) by having funds to scholarship low-income families/players. Top coaches will be attracted to clubs that can compensate them better using these funds, and remain driven by the incentives (keep making players=more $$). Top facilities and equipment can be purchased. Top players will be attracted by the better environments provided and greater opportunities..."To help grow a flower, you don't fix the flower itself. You fix the environment around it." End of the day, successful youth clubs will be driven by producing players, not winning State Cups. That, my friends, would be a win for soccer in this country. *end rant*
I started the thread because I was floored by Arena's "nothing has to change" comment. I mean, when you have a failure of this level the appropriate response is "we're looking at everything and nothing is off the table."
I can't figure out how to post a new thread. I'm told that I'm not allowed to post here and am only given options to post to reserved threads. Anyone know how to fix that? Slight hijack but pertains to developing soccer players. My question is if you have a kid who has potential what development opportunities should we be pursuing? First I'll caveat that our kid could stop playing today and that would be fine, but given they have loved playing since they were 4 I suspect they'll keep with it for a while. My kid is playing on the top competitive U9 team for a club in MN. Other than playing competitive, what else should we be doing, if anything? We don't have any soccer experience, but our kid loves the sport and has a lot of athletic ability. We would never force them to practice but are trying to find ways to provide opportunities for them to develop more. Our kid would not take well with us doing drills with them - much better to have other coaches. How do you find out about opportunities? How much should kids be playing at this age? Recommendations on camps or private training or anything else? What is the progression on training by age? Anything else we should be thinking about? If I could figure out how to post this in a new thread, I would/will.
Ya, its a failure on a whole bunch of levels. I mean they had a chance to get Pulisic into the World Cup. Your current and future face of US soccer for the next 10+ years. No matter the results in the tourney, just the hype around that alone would have pushed soccer to another level here.
Yeah, we squabble over versions of sport nobody really cares about in US, while most Americans watch NASCAR…. Everyone is just going to use this loss to push the same agenda they held prior to last night’s result…and it doesn’t matter what particular agenda that is….this loss validates them all… So basically, we’re going to continue to have the same old arguments ad nauseum…will anything change? I doubt it… To most Americans not going to the World Cup won’t even be a blip on their social media driven outrage scale….it will be a big fat who cares…. And until most, or at least a lot more, actually care, I very much doubt we will achieve much internationally….although I have little doubt we’ll be back in the WC in 2022 and out by knockout phase, and everything will be peachy-keen again in the world of US soccer…. For what’s worth (probably not much), I think US soccer should focus on expending the domestic interest in the sport, and the international success will follow suit…cause right now, US Soccer has it backwards, they think international success will lead to domestic interest….well, that line of thinking just blew up in their faces…
I like the idea but how far down does the $$$ go? The Club who developed from 8-12? The Academy that made him better 12-17? Even the University/College he played at from 17-22?
We have no history or tradition of this in the US, (that I am aware of)…therefore, I am very skeptical it will take hold…need to stop trying to fit a square peg solution in a round hole problem…
And I thought I was cynical. I do think the people currently in charge should be subject to some uncomfortable conversations. Whether it happens is anyone's guess. It's not as high profile, but we also didn't qualify for the Olympics. A lot of time and money over the past 8-10 years went into curricula, academies, etc. and it feels like we're stalled or moving backwards. For all the discussion about development, we were trotting out the likes of Bradley, Dempsey, Howard, etc. Not a knock on those guys, but a working system would have produced their replacements or competition by now.
That's a good question. Personally, I think it should go to the organization that the player spent the most time during a critical development phase. Where/When that phase takes place is open for debate. A bit off-topic, but would make for good discussion nonetheless.
Pulisic is the only one on the team who plays a similar style of soccer as the Euros. The rest of the squad resemble old men playing at the Y. There is no creativity in American men's soccer.
I'm not as focused on the style of play. I am more focused on if they will take a hard look at whether a top-down program is really the best approach for a geographically and ethnically diverse population of over 300 million people and if they have the guts to make course corrections where necessary.
But those usually starts from the bottom…not forced from the top down…or crammed into the middle, or where ever this tradition is supposed to take root…
Before Tuesday, I think I would've had the same reaction. Just too different from how we do things. Now? I'm definitely more inclined to have it as part of the conversation, even if it turns out to be unworkable. If I have the timeline correct, Gulati took over in 2006, DA was formed in 2007 and Klinsmann was given (more or less) full control in 2011. During that time, a lot of time and money was spent executing the plan they all formulated. And here we are. No Olympics, no World Cup, thanks for playing. If that doesn't spur some serious reflection, nothing will.
I tend to be cynical. I don't see sweeping changes, there's too much money involved for MLS/SUM to let USSF get too independent. I think Arena's comments were spot on about the plan. They think MLS is competent, and they have some players abroad. Look for them to follow the soccer = piano concerto model: You need 3 guys that can play it (playing in UEFA first divisions), 8 guys to move it. Tuesday we had 1 guy that could play it and a few guys that used to be able to play but the ears and joints just don't respond anymore. My concern is that our domestic league isn't really a piano moving company that a symphony would use, but some college guys who answered a craigslist post for "can you lift 100lbs, own a truck and be paid in beer & pizza?" A good metaphor considering the effect NCAA has on our current development model.
But it (player compensation) just seems like more of the same…the same euro-centric way of doing things, that doesn’t really fit with our way of doing things…. Even if player compensation was part of the equation right now, I think we see the same garbage we saw on the field the other night…just a few more clubs would have gotten richer in the process producing mediocre talent…
Maybe. The devil would be in the details and it may simply be unworkable here. I agree 100% that simply cutting and pasting what works in another country without taking into consideration the cultural, geographic and economic realities of the U.S. is a fool's errand. I'm just hoping this leads to some serious evaluation of the current model, because we wouldn't be in this position if it was working. Is having a closed DA system, insulated from outside competition and innovation an effective setup? What is or should be the relationship with MLS? I've seen the youth soccer scene referred to as "The Wild West" with no rules, but is that really accurate? It's the only sport my kid has been involved with where he has to present an ID and the coach has to be licensed by some central body. I think at least some of this needs to be addressed over the next couple years if they're serious about contending on the world stage.
IMO, 1) USSF needs to allow Solidarity Payments. This will make soccer cheaper for everyone and give incentive to train kids properly 2) There needs to a restructuring of youth soccer as a whole. Too many fragmented leagues. 3) Pro Rel up and down the system. It is just ridiculous to see teams playing MRL that are no better than some IWSL B teams.
The 800 pound elephant in the room is the answers to US Soccer’s problems are almost entirely generational…we can arrange the “deck chairs” all we like, but until we have a whole bunch of unlicensed parents teaching and coaching proper technique and soccer to their young kids, until soccer is actually a mainstream populist sport in this country, (and you can quote all the statics you like, but we aren’t there yet, and aren’t there be a long shot) we are only going to find limited, and somewhat underwhelming, success…but once we do get there, everything down stream will take care of itself…
All true, but at a minimum they should take a hard look at whether the current system is helping or hurting this cause. Because right now it looks like a high participation sport run like a niche sport.
My advice as a parent of a now U11 child, very athletic, also playing for a top team in a competitive MN club. At U9 try to take advantage of every opportunity your club offers to expose your child to other coaches within the club. y son was invited to practice sessions for other club teams, at U10 he practiced with a U13 C3 team during the winter. Attend club provided training, attend goalie training (even if not a goalie, a good goalie works on all aspects, footwork, positioning etc.). Futsal over the winter. Look into Joy of the People, they offer free play sessions where kids just go play games with other kids, no coaching just fun. I poke around the MYSA website, I look at other local clubs, some offer trainings that are open to other clubs. Related to the topic- but a couple of years down the road for Newbie's child- MN has one thing that is fairly unique as compared to the rest of the country. The ODP/District Select program actually works with the DA. Training together and players migrating between the two in a training session, exposing kids to different coaches and training methods. This is the first year for DA in MN but I think this is a very encouraging direction to go. Everything I have read is that in most areas these two entities compete for kids, I would think this competition for kids would be a detriment to development, and by working together we might produce better quality players.