BS, can you bring up Messi Ces stats in their very first 5months with Barca SIDE by SIDE to Neymar now? Pftttt
Many Barca attackers have played just fine with Messi. Winning titles, delivering good individual performances, and piling up nice stats. In Barca, it's all on Neymar to deliver - the platform to perform is given. He has started well, but not as well as some suggest. I dunno. I mean I don't doubt the legacy in Brazil leans a lot on NT performances, but today club performances sure mean a lot when one's legacy is considered (especially if we talk about global legacy, not just legacy in one's own country). So it's not like you can divide his matches to "meaningless club" and "meaningful NT" matches.
Dunno what Cesc has to do with this. But I remember he had a slow start to his Barca career, and certainly didn't "prove" his worth in those few months. He proved himself in Arsenal, and then slowly with time in Barca. I guess you define "proven" as something way less demanding than I do. Neymar has proven to be a player that can compete for starter spot for Barca, but in Barca he hasn't proven to be a kinda world beater player some think he is already. For Brazil NT he has done that more or less, but not for Barca.
Use global carefully because Global means the whole world, and you will infinitely be more famous in the world because of a world cup. More people in America knows of Landon Donovan than pretty much the whole Italian team. More people know of o Brocador in Brazil than Ozil, more people know more about Conca in China than the whole Man U. team. You guys extrapolate too much your global reach, when the reality is club performances outside of the ones over sold by Fifa stay pretty much local. Global starts in football are still the same over the past 10 years... Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Messi, Beckham, Cristiano Ronaldo. Outside of that.. there are no other global stars... So the World Cup 100% decides on people's Legacy. Now back to forwards with Messi, we've had the discussion before on this thread about all other forwards became second plan and lesser roles in the offense when Messi was around. From Eto'o to Villa, nothing new there.
yes becuase there are more younger fans watching with no back ground of the past . up to now, no comparison between Messi to Neymar. Messi is clear better. However some of you DIMINISH Neymar performance to an UNREASONABLE way ... or near NONESENSE
Yeah, global. World. FIFA. I dunno what we're debating about anymore, and I dunno if I overestimate the global reach of anything. Just saying that players' reputation and legacy are not based on entirely NT performances. Pretty elementary, and by that I obviously don't mean that La Liga or CL is watched by World Cup like amounts of audiences. World Cup 100% decides legacy? Sorry, but just no. Messi is Barca's best attacker, sure, but he is 1/11 of what is on the pitch. A third of attacking trio. Other attackers have all the chance in the world to deliver. When a player fails in a team, it's usually the player's fault and the team's fault to not get the best out of the player to ideally help the team, but the idea of attackers can't succeed with Messi is just absurd, and many have done very well with him. Eto'o did fine, Dinho did fine, Henry did fine, Villa did fine, Ibra did badly (but I think it had more to do with Pep and Barca in general than Messi), Alexis and Pedro have been doing well enough. Neymar is currently doing fine.
I don't know if it has that much to do with young people with no knowledge of the past. I think the biggest reason is simply that so big amount of the matches the players play are club matches, and it's only natural that majority of the football the players play has its affect. Another reason I guess is that so big percentage of the best players in the world play annually in the same competition (CL). A third reason, while I don't want to overestimate the global reach of club football, is that today with the technology etc, club football is easier to follow than it was some decades ago.
yes it is , because they ALWAYS IGNORE (or FORGET) the past (or no knowledge) and pump up some wrong volume level on their favorite players ... Like I put up before: Neymar first season is even BETTER in stats to Messi's first season at Barca. But EXPLAIN WHY some said Neymar is UNPROVEN vs the young Messi as New Maradona??? If not lacking of HISTORY background, they WOULD NEVER say such (blasphemous) thing
Ok, let's agree to disagree. I don't think young people are that ignorant, though obv they cannot know about the 50's, 60's as well as they know the modern game. We already talked about this, but ok, again: you can say Neymar's first season in Barca has better stats than Messi's first, but I dunno what you can conclude from that. They played their first seasons in Barca in completely different phases of their career: Messi was a homegrown kid promoted to the team, Neymar was notable older and super-expensive Brazil NT starter. Shocker that the kid couldn't deliver Neymar's stats. Neymar is not unproven against young Messi, Neymar is unproven as in he is yet to deliver the kinda world beater performances in Europe/Barca that many think he could deliver. Stats are not everything like we all know, but if you're an attacker and play for a giant club like Barca, you gotta produce more goals than 14 in 35 matches before we can consider you to be among, say, top three attackers in the world. It's very simple really with Neymar in Barca: for some, the expectations were big. For some, the expectations were unrealistical. People who have followed the club regularly know it takes time to adapt. He has done very well, but has room for improvement. But he wasn't bought for one or two seasons, so let's hope he continues to deliver.
It's obviously IGNORANT kinda conclusion A 21yrs old LEAD one of the BEST teams in Football like Brazil (ranking~ 10 now, not #1 ;ike years ago) with a SENSATIONAL stats 30goals+15ass/48 games = super star STATS A 21 yrs old FIRSST season in Liga big league with 9goals+8ass/18 games = SUPER STAR STATS PERIOD no debate
out of those 35 matches Neymar at the start was coming in on the closing end of the second half, and he also gets subbed a lot during the second half. Only Tello has less minutes than Neymar up front, Plus Neymar has been exactly the same player he has been in Brazil, he usually scored between 15-20 goals in the league during the year, he has around .5 scoring for the league, .7 for paulista and around .6 for Brazil. He's not being anything outside of what he is.
no debate of a NONE SENSE comment "unproven" Neymar was #13 in FIFA ballon Dor 2012 (Bale was NOT even qualified) Neymar was #6 in FIFA ballon Dor 2013 (Bale was #9) If Neymar was UNPROVEN , then none of the 23 men in that list are (including Messi CR7 Xavi Iniesta ...) PERIOD
ouff I forgot to add the early prediction of FIFA ballon Dor of 2014, and guess what Neymar is climbing up to TOP3 just behind Messi and CR7 as usual names ... Bale barely made #25 Ranking the 25 Most Likely 2014 Ballon d'Or Winners By Mark Jones, Featured Columnist Jan 9, 2014 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...5-most-likely-2014-ballon-dor-winners/page/26
Well one of the reasons Neymar doesnt score more goals is because at barca everything runs through Messi and when it doesnt you get sold. Just ask David Villa what happens if you make messi mad for not passing him the ball. Secondly Alexis and Pedro also score lots of goals so is hard for Neymar to have a high number of goals playing for barca. It makes perfect sense to sell messi now and make Neymar the main scorer for Barca. If not sell Neymar but the two together wont work for long. Neymar is young and acting like the nice boy but once he gets comfortable and learns how to be the alpha dog things will change and one of the two will need to be sold. []__[]
Yes, smart ass! But 2012 ended 15 months ago. Besides, in 2014 ( ), Messi has been better than Ronaldo. Not only scored and assisted more, but played better in the head-to-head match (clasico).
never mind the fan boys ... as they only enjoyed when their players succeeded and DENIED FACTS when their players were bad. - Fan boys: enjoyed the success WOW Messi was topscorer in liga , top scorer in Barca ... bla bla with > 1GPG - but they were DENIAL in seeing FACTS: Messi was SCORELESS vs Chelsea (8games) = unproven???? Messi 1goal/8games WC = unproven? Messi 3gaols/12games copa America = unproven?
Nothing guarantees Neymar will become this "alpha dog". He came into Barcelona knowing his place, and that will always be after Messi. He has to perform better than a lot of other players at Barca before even attempting to outperform Messi.
A real reason is the he has missed some fairly easy goals. He could have probably scored almost 10 more goals had his finishing been better. If he finishes with authority, he won't feel afraid to shoot and obligated to pass the ball to others to score goals.
Neymar with Messi: 4goals +9ass/14games Neymar w/o Messi: 9gaols+3ass/13games He stood well (enough ) in to Messi shoes when he is not there ....
see my stats earlier ... an YES Neymar is already BETTER than ALOT of Barca players include Iniesta and Cecs (now)
You should be banned for posting links to Bleacher Report as reference to anything. Specially for something like this.