News: Neymar 4-Game Suspension from Copa America

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Mengão86, Jun 18, 2015.

  1. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dunga said, Neymar suffered 20 violent fouls and neither one got a yellow, then he accidentally touches the ball with his hand and gets a yellow.

    He's got a point. Refereeing was clearly biased against Neymar (to the point that one of the officials insulted him) so Neymar is clearly not the only one to be blamed. I blame him more for falling for it and losing his head entirely in face of the provocation. If you can't take the heat, don't get into the sauna. A professional player can't be this easily manipulated.
     
  2. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Now, a dream result would be for Brazil to somehow survive and make the final, the appeal succeeding and the suspension dropping to 3 games, and Colombia also reaching the final. Then, Neymar would score a hat trick and we'd beat Colombia 3-0. That would be even better than beating Argentina.
     
  3. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    RIO AND CHICAGO
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    No its not - it's a disciplinary tribunal.
     
  4. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The disciplinary tribunal has ruled already. It has five members. The member from Brazil abstained. The member from Colombia abstained. The member from Chile also abstained, given that the ref was Chilean. The decision to suspend him for four games was made exclusively by the two remaining members, one from Uruguay and one from Bolivia. Now, the appeal will be judged by a single official, who is from Ecuador. He is responsible for appeals, and he decides on his own and has final say.

    Of course, I don't believe for a second that his decision will be truly independent. He probably will do what CONMEBOL tells him to do, and in that confederation there is no sympathy for Brazil whatsoever. We've seen it in the Libertadores, when every time a Brazilian team had a valid point in some controversy, CONMEBOL ruled for the Spanish-speaking team.
     
  5. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I believe Mascherano said that not Dunga. Either way it's stupid. First, Neymar wasn't fouled 20 times even if you don't count the non-calls. He was fouled 5 times vs Colombia and 4 vs Venezuela. If Dunga had said that, he'd be a hypocrite. We won CA 2007 with his team committing 37 fouls vs Argentina.
     
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  6. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Dunga did say it. I read it in the Brazilian press.
    http://www.mg.superesportes.com.br/...ma-de-criterio-da-arbitragem-com-neymar.shtml
    Maybe he meant 20 fouls just as a way of speaking.
     
  7. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK, the guy who will judge the appeal and who is from Ecuador said that he'll only release his ruling on Monday. This makes me optimistic. If he is leaning towards decreasing the ban, he probably doesn't want to give Brazil an extra-incentive to beat Venezuela on Sunday which would hurt Ecuador, then on Monday what is done to Brazil and Ecuador in terms of fighting for that last 3rd place spot, is done, and he can release his ruling.

    Certainly it can be said that I'm reading too much into it, but a delay seems to me to be a good thing. If this guy (and consequently CONMEBOL) were adamant in punishing Neymar with 4 games, there would be no reason to delay the ruling. It could be released right after CBF's appeal is received. A delay at the very least shows that they are going to give some consideration to the matter of reducing the punishment.

    Hm... on the other hand, it can also be speculated that he wants first to see if Brazil will advance or not. If we don't advance, then he would appear magnanimous and fair in reducing the punishment, which of course would then make no difference whatsoever for this edition of the Copa América.
     
  8. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    We only need a tie vs Venezuela. If we get to the Final without Neymar, and I truly doubt we will, we should play without him. :ROFLMAO:
     
  9. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  10. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Let me start by saying that in these situations, your own opinion is the one that counts. You can make cases for and against Neymar and both are actually legit. What's important is what you believe in yourself as long as you have all the facts straight. Sometimes that's not possible (knowing all facts).

    The second comment I will make is related to the first one but also a pet peeve I have nowadays. Basically it's about these sites that basically allow anybody to write articles. Then people post a link to them as if to prove something (hey, look with the some "media" is saying). In summary, who the Hell is this guy and what credibility does he have ? Basically none. Maybe he can write well, but why does his opinion matter at all ? If I am taking an opinion in consideration, it will be from somebody who has some credibility.
     
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  11. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    We crucified players for less. There was no way Neymar was going to get a pass from the Brazilian media.
     
  12. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The first article I posted was from UAI which is the portal from the very traditional newspaper O Estado de Minas. Together with O Estado de São Paulo, O Globo, and A Folha de São Paulo, it is one of the most important newspapers in Brazil. It exists for over a century and it leads the conglomerate Diários Associados. I'm not sure why you think a journalist from that organization has no credibility.

    The second one is from Super Bowl Nation. It's a very popular (80 million unique visitors, and its Twitter feed has 2,217,000 followers) and well-established sports site in America and a source of many interesting comments. Like they say in their disclaimer, "SB Nation has focused on developing the highest quality grassroots sports sites on the web — recruiting only the most respected web-native journalists to build their communities." According to Forbes, the editorial team at SB Nation includes five of the "top ten influencers in the business of sport." It won two awards from the American Society of Journalists and Authors. Again, I'm used to high quality commentary from that site, and I don't see why you should put it down.

    I'm not associated with either of these organizations but I think they are quite respectable, otherwise I wouldn't have quoted them.
     
  13. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #88 Brasitusa, Jun 20, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2015
    Again, adding to what I said above (I can't edit anymore, it's been 35 minutes) here is the professional bio of the journalist I quoted, from O Estado de Minas:

    "Jaeci Cavalcanti de Carvalho formou-se em Comunicação Social, com habilitação em Jornalismo e Publicidade pela Universidade Gama Filho do Rio de Janeiro, em 1983. Trabalhou na TV Globo do Rio, Juiz de Fora e Belo Horizonte do ano da formação até 1991, quando recebeu convite do Jornal Estado de Minas, para cobrir a Seleção Brasileira de Futebol. Ao longo desses 30 anos como jornalista, cobriu cinco Copas do Mundo, cinco Olimpíadas, seis Copas América, Seis Copas das Confederações, e os principais jogos da Seleção Brasileira pelo mundo. Tem 253 coberturas internacionais, com 74 países visitados. Foi vencedor dos Prêmios Imprensa Embratel, e Ayrton Senna de Jornalismo com a matéria, “Meninos do Brasil”, onde relatou o drama de meninos levados ao exterior para jogar futebol, por empresários inescrupulosos. Para isso, ficou dois meses, principalmente, no Leste Europeu, onde encontrou e contou o drama dos garotos. É Colunista do Jornal Estado de Minas, Repórter Especial, e Apresentador e Editor-Chefe do programa Alterosa no Ataque, da TV Alterosa-SBT, em Minas Gerais."

    Is this credible enough for you?

    Granted that the other article I quoted is written by a less credentialed person. He is nevertheless billed as "an SBNation Soccer writer and Betting Instinct contributor who has written for more publications than should be allowed." I've seen articles by him also on Real Clear Sports, Eurosports, and Football Report.
     
  14. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You don't need to lecture me on Brazilian newspapers. And I didn't mention that article. Actually didn't even see it. Just talking about SBNation. The Brazilian article is definitely fair.

    Do you know the guy who wrote the article ? Has 2k followers on Twitter. You're just looking at SBNation as a whole and not who actually wrote the article. These guys are merely very low paid freelancers while SBNation makes tons of money. You know that site has 100s of stories written a day right ? You think those top editors are editing those stories ? That's besides the point though.

    One of his tweets ...

    "******** Inter and anybody who loves em"

    Yes ... respected web journalist :rolleyes:

    One of the things I've learned about this country is that it's a master of marketing.
     
  15. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not necessarily lecturing you, but this is a public site and you made a public comment about my post, so, I'm clarifying for whoever doesn't know it, what O Estado de Minas is, and its importance.

    Oh, come on. Who doesn't post a misguided thing or two on Twitter? The guy is a confessed AC Milan fan (so am I, by the way) so he lashes out at Inter, oh my God, what a sin! I wouldn't disqualify him for that, LOL.

    Again, the guy writes well and for a number of sites and publications, such as SBNation, Betting Instinct, Real Clear Sports, Eurosports, and Football Report.

    I did refer to SB Nation as a whole - I've not been disappointed with their commentary, and they have a large editorial body with some prominent people, I'd assume they do control for the quality, a bit, which is why I read them, and which is why I bumped into this article.
     
  16. Emperor Adriano

    Emperor Adriano Member+

    Jun 17, 2009
    Utica NY (the refugee city)
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yea idk if they are even paid for the most part and I thought it was sport blog nation but yea I'm not a huge fan of the site, can't say it's respected.
     
  17. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    The whole concept of the site, like Bleacher Report, is to get aspiring writers who want visibility to write for cheap. Writers get paid by page views as far as I know. They offer little money but their selling point is visibility.

    Seriously, what do I care of this guys opinion is even if he writes well ?
     
  18. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So if *you* are not a huge fan of the site you can't say it's respected? All that this proves is that *you* don't respect it; not that it's not respected. I do. I often like what I read there.

    It gets quoted and linked to by most other portals so it definitely does have importance. A lot more than we do, here, since *we* don't get similar feeds, quotes, and links.

    Now, of course the editorial board doesn't edit all articles, but they seem to say that they select the people who write for them. The article I quoted was not a thread post. So, if this guy is authorized to publish articles there, I'd assume he got the green light from the editorial board.
     
  19. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But if they want quality and recognition, they wouldn't allow just any person to write an article. If you read the article I quoted, it's well written and articulate.

    I own a website (not soccer related) for which I'm the Chief Editor. I can assure you that I don't allow just about anybody to publish there; much the opposite. I only grant this privilege to people I trust, who can author compelling pieces that are grammatically correct and make sense.
     
  20. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Like I said, that is just fine and I did not criticize it.

    Serious professional journalists would never post something like that. Anyways, even if he can write well, who is he and why do I care ? So what if he is a football fan. I am a football fan.

    I seriously have no idea why somebody would post that link here. What are you trying to prove ? That some people support Neymar in this ? Like I said, there is no right or wrong here. It's just a pet peeve of mine that people post reports from these sites as if they are something important.
     
  21. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hm, the interesting thing is, the guy makes *a lot* of good points. I posted the link here because I liked the article. He quoted several cases of other players who threw similar tantrums at a similar age and presented a compelling case in Neymar's defense.

    Now, I'd say that one should judge a piece on its merit, not on the fame of the journalist who authored it. I'd say that paying attention to the content and not to the fame - which like you said is a product of marketing - makes a lot more sense. Who is to say that the aspiring journalist of today won't be the prestigious journalist of tomorrow? I think we are best advised to judge a book by its content, not by its cover.

    I try my best to contribute to the discussion, and have quoted several elements from the press in this evolving story.

    When you say "I seriously have no idea why somebody would post that link here" - it's kind of demeaning. I don't appreciate being censored on what I post, because I generally do not post BS; at least, I don't think so.

    The only reason to link to it is that it is an interesting and well argued piece. Now, pray tell, what's wrong with that? It also does introduce the interesting point that the domestic press is bashing Neymar while this American sports writer (young and still lacking prestige as he may be) is finding compelling arguments to defend him.
     
  22. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Let me just give you an example why this guy, while he writes well, should not carry any weight. And this pisses me off because I am clicking on his page and giving him money in doing so. Check this article out about Messi:

    http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2015/2/16/8042027/lionel-messi-barcelona-quality

    The tension between the two is clear. Neymar may claim publicly that Messi is his best friend, but we all know that's PR foolishness. They're just a few incidents away from tearing each other apart. Perhaps Barça should reconsider selling Messi, before the inevitable bloodshed begins.

    Barcelona should also be concerned with Messi's left foot. Will he ever be humble enough to train it properly? His first goal against Levante was yet another right footer, which now makes nine for this season. As a professional footballer, each day he should be working on training up his left, so as to be less predictable. Messi scoring with his right is almost as routine as Arjen Robben cutting to the inside.

    Lionel Messi is like so many other child geniuses who flame too soon. He was just another blue star -- a spectacular, celestial being that burns so hot that they consume their fuel too quickly. He could have been a red dwarf instead -- if he was managed correctly and had been just a little bit more talented. But instead of talking about an otherworldly Lionel Messi, current leader in La Liga in almost all offensive measurables at the incredible age of 27, we're stuck mourning his former brilliance.
     
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  23. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I rather read your opinion than his. His point is obvious. Neymar is young and young players make mistakes. Fuk experienced players make mistakes (Zidane). Everybody knows that and it's not anything that hasn't been pointed out here. Nobody is crucifying Neymar. We're just pointing out that he made a big mistake and yes he should learn from it as he grows older. A more interesting article would have been his opinion if the punishment of 4 games was fair or not.
     
  24. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #99 Brasitusa, Jun 20, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2015
    Oh, and by the way, I just looked it up - SB Nation's pages *are* maintained by part-time contract writers, so, the guy needs at least some sort of authorization from the editorial board to be one of them.

    OK, he doesn't like Messi. I'd start another huge fight here, but I've often had the same impression that Messi's prime is behind him. Sure, he'll have great bursts of good seasons with Barcelona but he does seem to need the supporting cast quite a lot. He was actually in a sort of drought before Neymar joined... losing terrain to Cristiano Ronaldo in terms of brilliance in La Liga... and at least partially, Neymar's assists helped Messi increase his productivity again.

    I was exactly thinking about it today, watching Argentina vs. Jamaica. Jamaica, of all teams, and Messi couldn't score against them, and the one goal didn't come from his assist either.

    They were heralding him for 100 caps with the Argentine national team... and I was thinking, "100 caps and ZERO titles."

    Why is Messi so unproductive for the national team, without his club supporting cast?

    Count me among those who don't endorse the "Best of All Time" Messy hype either.

    Now, is this guy exaggerating when he depicts Messi and Neymar as frenemies? Sure...

    But overall, if someone says that the Emperor is naked, I kind of like it. The guy has the balls to differ from all the Messi worshipers.

    ----------

    Clarifying what I said: I don't doubt that Messi is a great footballer, of course. I just find that the GOAT claim is grossly exaggerated, as compared to people like Maradona and Pelé who were great for both club and nation, while Messi basically is only truly great for club.

    This time, Argentina may very well end his drought of titles with the national team, by default. Brazil got amputated of its best player. The other teams aren't that great. So, in the land of the blind...
     
  25. Brasitusa

    Brasitusa Member+

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Talking about the fairness of the punishment, this guy at least didn't make the huge blunder of another article - that one I didn't quote or link to because it was of low quality - showing outrage that Neymar's punishment initially proposed as 2 games got shrunk to one game - the "journalist" was saying, "is it because Brazil asked nicely?" THAT one does not deserve to be called a web journalist. He completely misunderstood the situation. CONMEBOL said the provisional ban was for one game, because that was the 2-yellow card one, so Neymar was out of the Venezuela game anyway which was all that they were saying then, and they would meet with the Disciplinary Tribunal to review the red card and the events around it, to judge whether or not the ban would be increased. So, that idiot wrote an anti-Brazil piece, completely misguided.
     

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