Neymar, 2012 and beyond [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by IVO !, Mar 29, 2012.

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  1. Santista1962

    Santista1962 Red Card

    Sep 9, 2011
    Club:
    Santos FC
    So...I am reading here and apparently Neymar has gained 4 kilograms in the past 3 weeks...

    Please keep getting fatter!
     
  2. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Heh I dunno, sounds like a lot and fast hahah. That said, he is bound to gain some weight anyway, like a kilo or two this summer, though lol no fat but muscle. Would help his him as a footballer to be a a bit stronger.
     
  3. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Already lost 2.
     
  4. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I had read that Barcelona had a fitness plan for him before the pre-season where he was supposed to add additional muscle mass.
     
  5. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
  6. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    It would of been worst at Madrid IMO. There fanbase is very demanding. I'm glad Barca is making put on muscle. He is too easily brush off by defenders.
     
  7. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    To the delight of Santista1962

    Em pouco tempo de Barça, Neymar já rendeu mais de R$ 24 milhões ao clube

     
  8. Santista1962

    Santista1962 Red Card

    Sep 9, 2011
    Club:
    Santos FC


    That money is for Barcelona. Barcelona does not give our club money nor does it provide any benefits, aid, money, football or players. Only ignorant Africans, Asian-boys and American gloryhunters let themselves get ear********ed by a European. I don't give a shit about that shitty club or the football in that continent.

    Only Juventus and Bayern Munich can claim to have a historical stake in the sport along with Santos and Vasco da Gama. Everyone else in Europe is not worth mentioning.




    Goddammit, the best thing we can do is forget about Neymar, rebuild our marketing strategy around players willing to stay in the Brasileirao and not call up too many European-based players.

    In other news, Messi and his father (surprise!) are being prosecuted for tax fraud amounting to ta total of over four million euros between 2006 and 2009.

    The prosecution has given out a few details. Messi and co. managed to do this by simulating the transfer of his image rights to companies based in "tax havens" such as Belize, Uruguay, etc. The jurisdictions of nations such as the UK and Switzerland allowed those license agreements to stand.
     
  9. Kevin_405

    Kevin_405 Member

    Jul 30, 2012
    Neymar is totally overrated. Seen enough of him in santos and brazil games. He is gonna fall off a cliff in barca, probably not even get playing time. To be successful. Brazil needs to look. Beyond neymar at team players rather than one on one players
     
  10. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    RIO AND CHICAGO
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You been smoking to much Ganja.
     
  11. Kevin_405

    Kevin_405 Member

    Jul 30, 2012
    Thank you for a very objective comment. now i am convinced Neymar is the greatest player the world has ever seen.
     
  12. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

    May 8, 2008
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil

    Please be more specific. How many matches did you watch, both for club and national team? Were all of them from 2013? Why do you think he is overrated? How do you rate Oscar and Lucas? Why do you believe that Neymar is not a team player?

    You are a new member with 6 posts, and all I see you post is "Neymar is overrated, he is going to fail at Barça". At this point, you are nothing more than those 13 year olds at goal.com trolling because it's what the cool kids do. Please prove me wrong.
     
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  13. Kevin_405

    Kevin_405 Member

    Jul 30, 2012
    Six posts does not mean i dont watch soccer and have not seen Neymar play enough.
    Watched every brazil international and a quite a few santos games last year. Any international game i missed i have seen recordings.
    It is 13 year old kids who call Neymar the best in the world without evidence. Compare his play to Messi, C Ronaldo and u will see that Neymar is nowhere in comparison.

    The one goal for santos that was rated the goal of the year got everybody wooing Neymar, but his performance on the national team has not done any justice to his billing that brazilians seem to bestow upon him. More often than not he tries to take on defenders where he should be passing and running to open positions, those tactics might work in the brazilian league play , but on the international stage cant remember scoring a one on one dribble and beat goal, or for that matter beat a defender. Seen him failing miserably against mexico in both the friendly and in the olympic finals last year. To top it all his flopping does not help his cause. Both the one on one plays and flopping will be exposed in Europe hence i am calling him a fail

    The one person we all should compare him against is with is Brazil Ronaldo and the difference is evident. Ronaldo used to shake defenders with one move to create space and his finishing was unbeatable. To give him the same kind of credentials without any evidence is just foolhardy.

    Oscar seems to be doing much better than Ganso did in the role as a Center midfielder. I think Oscar has done a decent job. Lucas has not gotten a lot of chances. Not sure why. but love his speed and unselfish way he plays.

     
  14. Danakil

    Danakil Member

    Aug 15, 2012
    Scandinavia
    Club:
    Manchester City FC
    I think you are a certified hater. Neymar is 21 years old and already 35 caps with 21 goals and 13 assists for Brazil NT. What neymar is doing on the big stage is eclipsing the likes of messi and ronaldo (now tell me how much they each got and how OOOOLLDDD they are?)

    Neymar has been directly involved in a goal every 89.5 minutes when playing for BRA, overrated they say...

    Here is neymar destroying a defender in one and one challenge.

     
  15. Kevin_405

    Kevin_405 Member

    Jul 30, 2012
    Highlights from Brazil vs Iraq.. really..
    I think u forgot all those MIAs last year especially the one against mexico in the olympic finals.

    Really Neymar eclipsing Messi and Ronaldo, not sure what u rate as the big stage, If spanish league is not the big stage , not sure what is..

    Now that the flopper is on Barca, time will tell where he stands in comparison to Messi and Ronaldo..


     
  16. Santista1962

    Santista1962 Red Card

    Sep 9, 2011
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Why do we have so many glory-hunters flooding our threads with stupid comments?

    Go hate on Brazilians elsewhere.
     
  17. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Barca, means nothing to the Brazilians, if Neymar sucks at Barca but wins a world cup and leads Brazil to other titles he'll be remembered as a winner, while messi will be remembered as the guy that couldn't win without xaviesta

    And by the way, watching Neymar vs other national teams is very different to watch Barca vs osauna
     
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  18. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

    May 8, 2008
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Ah that's much better Kevin, now we have something to discuss.

    Thanks for the reply dude, sorry if I offended you but when such a new BS account makes a statement like that I will always suspect that it is a troll, the internet is full of those nowadays. Now I believe we can have a civilized discussion.
     
  19. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Considering somebody had already given Neymar's N't numbers and goals and his reply to actual statistics was baaaaaaa doesn't count because of a silver in the Olympics!

    Really? You would dismiss 35 games because of 5 bad games?

    he mention those 5 games as they are indicative of a career, yet he refuse to acknowledge the short comings of the other two players he wants to compare Neymar too.

    First acknowledge the age of Neymar, then if he is to make comparisons make comparisons of apples to apples, national team to national team, these are 3 good national teams, great basis for comparison. Then see how far was messi and Ronaldo along on their national team careers compared to Neymar.

    Because as of right now at the age of 21 Neymar is ahead of both when it comes to national team, and he just started....

    Club football was never a way to measure greatness, legendary status comes from national team glory.
     
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  20. Santista1962

    Santista1962 Red Card

    Sep 9, 2011
    Club:
    Santos FC
    The only way club football has ever been measured in terms of greatness is when the football was strong enough to have influenced the game in tactics, results, philosophy or a combination of it.

    The only clubs in the world that can truly attest to have been great, in no particular order, are Santos, Vasco da Gama, Bayern Munchen and Juventus.

    Honorable mentions include Celtic, Flamengo, Botafogo, FC Koln, AC Milan, Honved and Ajax.

    Everyone else is not worth mentioning in terms of truly great clubs.

    The point is that all of those clubs above influenced the game in a manner than went beyond just winning titles.
     
  21. Kevin_405

    Kevin_405 Member

    Jul 30, 2012
    The way some people have raised Neymar to god like status is what make my earlier comments quite moderate in comparison.

    I agree with every thing u said in this post especially that Neymar has the tools but the flopping for sure wont work in Europe, plus the system at Barca which is focused on Messi will not give him a lot of chances. In fact i am not expecting him to get a lot of playing time , which isn't the best thing to happen to a young and up coming player.

    As far as Lucas vs neymar there is a technical difference between the way Neymar dribbles and challenges defenders vs how Lucas or Marcelo dribble mostly to create space for creating opportunities for others. I cant explain a whole lot here , but the way marcelo and lucas dribble is common without a lot of negetive affects vs the way neymar dribbles just seems arrogant and will look spectacular if it comes off but really looks stupid and result in dispossession if it fails.At high level possessions are important hence giving up possessions can be costly.

    While Neymar's numbers look really good except a lot of those have been against sub standard opposition in friendly matches. Yes Neymar did help the team get to the finals in olympics , but the disappearing act in the finals was very evident. I think the confederations cup and possibly next years WC if phillipao has patience with him will be the real benchmark for him to prove his value at a top level player. Maybe that will turn me into a beliver , but until then i will choose to differ.



     
  22. Bakaman

    Bakaman Member

    May 8, 2008
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil

    That is a much more reasonable approach than your first post Kevin, much better.

    1) About playing time: the catch is that only huge clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern would have the funds to buy him, and those are exactly the clubs that already have stabilished teams and have less room for a youngster to develop. The pressure for performance is there from the get go. I have no doubt that it would be better for Neymar if he joined a smaller club, that could still get some CL football, and be a starter every match... Then after some time developing himself he could move to a bigger team, but as I said, his price tag wouldn't allow it.
    I'm expecting a more subdued first season with Barcelona, until he adapts. That time will be crucial to him, and will be exactly when he will face the most pressure, since the media/fans will expect 40 goals a season from him due to his price tag and he won't deliver that so soon. He is pretty used to dealing with pressure, but I can only wonder how much he can take before blowing up...
    Anyways I'd still bet that he will be a hit there and I believe he will get a fair amount of playtime, specially if Barcelona sells one of his forwards as the rumours say they will. If his competition for that left spot in the front is Tello and maybe Pedro, then it won't be THAT tough IMO.


    2) About Lucas: well I'm used to São Paulo's Lucas, he was a player who used to just drop his head and charge forward dribbling everyone on his way 80% of the time. On the few moments where he would actually raise his head and look around, he would give some great passes, the problem is that he didn't do that often enough. It's something that he will improve on with more experience, I'm sure, and his talent is undeniable (no wonder why most of us would prefer him over Hulk in the starting XI). I've watched every match of his with PSG, he seems to be passing more often, but in the NT he still gets very nervous and end up trying too hard to impress with the few minutes given to him, that's another reason for him to start more games, let him have more time to show what he can do for us.

    3) Neymar's numbers: I won't deny that Brazil has faced quite a few weak opponents, much more than we'd like to. I prefer our 2013 schedule of friendlies much more than the one during Mano's era, we already faced England, France, maybe we will get Portugal as well, I think it's vital to building a team for a WC. Of course, Neymar has scored quite a few goals against weaker opponents... But hey, if the opponents are weak, they are weak to everyone in Brazil's team... Yet Neymar is still the one scoring and assisting most of the goals. The opponents aren't weak only to him, so you'd expect more players scoring over 20 goals as well, Hulk for example only has a handful. Perhaps he does have something special...? It's something to consider.

    Time is the key word here. He is not the "best of the world", but he is not "Robinho 2.0" either. Where does he stand right now, and how far he will reach, only time will tell... So no need to jump to conclusions.
     
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  23. IVO !

    IVO ! Member

    Feb 25, 2009
    RIO AND CHICAGO
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Your spelling of our National Team coach says it all about your knowledge of Futebol Brasileiro.
    Go troll in some other forum.
    I am sick if these imbesils coming in here trash and shit talking. You get rid of one dumb ass, and another pops up a couple days later.
     
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  24. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    People don't expect 40 goals a season from him, definitely not in his first season (or really, ever). To put in comparison: David Villa is one the best strikers Spain has ever produced, he has played in good Liga clubs his whole career being a starter, and he has never scored more than 30 goals in a season (all competitions included). Pressure will be there for Neymar, agreed, but then again people do know that he is young, adapting to a new league and environment and anyway the pressure is shared as he obviously is not asked to carry the team by himself to a title. As for first season goal tally, I'd say he's get the "A" grade by smacking in some 15-20 Liga goals, but goals tally obviously only tells so much how he has done. So while "subdued" season is fair enough to expect from him, it's all relative: to establish yourself as a Barca starter in your first season is a lot asked and can be considered a great success.

    Villa is likely to leave, so competition for minutes for Neymar looks like this:
    LW: Neymar, Tello.
    CF: Messi.
    RW: Pedro, Alexis.
    ...with the occasional attack-line appearances by Cesc and Iniesta, and with RWs and LWs occasionally playing in the opposite spot. There are some rumours about Barca signing another attacker, but we'll see about that. Of course, Villa could stay as well.

    So, briefly: if he plays well and has good attitude, he is guaranteed to get more than enough minutes in Barca. All up to him, and imo: Barca was a good choice (not just because I'm a Barca fan, any other top-top club would've good as well). I mean I think they week-in, week-out training and playing with a squad as good as possible makes him grow the best. Maybe if he had moved to Europe, say, three years ago, then perhaps a club one step less demanding could've been a better choice. But he is not a kid anymore, he is a starter for the Brazilian NT.
     

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