Next Captain After Bradley

Discussion in 'USA Men' started by ussoccer97531, Sep 10, 2017.

?

Who will be the next USMNT captain?

  1. Pulisic

    44.2%
  2. Vet contingent (Altidore, Guzan, Besler, Cameron, Yedlin, Brooks, Johnson, Wood)

    26.7%
  3. Other

    29.1%
  1. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    it doesn't really do anything for the team a capt at this level is a figurehead its literally used to make a sensitive player feel better. the idea that a group of professionals needs a guy to huddle them up(in a sport with no huddles during play) and say 'hey guys lets play hard now' at any point is a joke. 'being more then the sum of 'our' parts'' has to do with coaching and team chemistry it has nothing to do with who the capt is.
     
    yurch10 repped this.
  2. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    And is there evidence you can provide on this? Or the "tremendous" value is just something you assume?

    Because again, I have evidence how it doesn't work, from what just happened in this past hex.

    How does 1 single player, forced to be on the field every game because he is captain, provide more "tremendous" value than selecting one from a small group who displays value and leadership (quite possibly tremendously)?
     
  3. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I understand that you’re frustrated with MB’s leadership (I’m truly disappointed as well) but his failure isn’t necessarily an indictment of naming a captain who is expected to be a leader both on and off the field. Can there be co-captains or assistant captain? Surely and not all leaders are named captain.
     
  4. a_new_fan

    a_new_fan Member+

    Jul 6, 2006
    naming a capt couldn't mean less.

    leaders are leaders and armband will never change that, captains are figureheads and so are co-captains or assistant captains its a needless fan exercise.

    you are just completely overvaluing the armband and 'leadership' on a national team.
     
  5. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    The captaincy can be transferred during a game in soccer, often as a ploy to waste additional time off a sub. One of the more meaningless symbols in sports, imo.
     
    a_new_fan repped this.
  6. TheHoustonHoyaFan

    Oct 14, 2011
    Houston
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Always good to look at history.

    http://shop.bigsoccer.com/threads/article-bradley-in-line-to-be-the-next-usa-captain.1978892/
     
  7. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    I don't really care about MB's leadership at this point. It's done and dusted. My only point bringing it up is that here is a guy who was our tremendously important captain, which you've said brings immense value. I saw MB inked into the starting lineup because of this, with the entire purpose of coaches, media, fans, etc, being to figure out how to fit a formation around him.

    I would argue that without him being our nonstop, official designated captain, we would have had the opportunity to cycle players around the CM spots, figured out what worked best (with MB still included based on form/opposition/health/whatever). We couldn't because he had to be on the field every minute because he was captain america.

    Finally, I am still waiting for someone to provide proof that having one named captain is important. You are basically pigeon holing yourself into a lineup with a fixed starter, ruining any type of possible lineup diversity or flexibility, all because of the "tremendous" value of having a guaranteed starter/captain which nobody can prove actually provides positive value, other than telling me it does because of "leadership" (that just "led" us to missing the WC out of CONCACAF).
     
  8. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think captains are more important at the club level, because the captain then acts as a go-between for players and the coach. Club teams are together day after day after day for 10-11 months at a time. The captain can help the coach calibrate players’ moods.

    Obviously, that barely comes into play at the international level.
     
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Because of this? Source/link please.

    RIghtly or wrongly, Jurgen and Arena thought he should be out there because of his play. That’s obvious...or have you forgotten the way Jurgen axed Bocanegra in the 12-13 cycle?
     
    DHC1 repped this.
  10. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Source/link? For what? My quote that starts with "I saw MB inked..."? You want sources for my thoughts? Ok then, my sources are dozens of my old posts (and thought process the last 3-4 years) pleading for a rotation to happen. And I'll say it again...I was proven to be right.

    Of course both coaches thought he should be out there. We also missed the WC from CONCACAF. So both coaches (mostly Arena) were simply incorrect. And thus, my argument is that being locked in as captain made any other options impossible. Surely, being the captain is not the SOLE reason, but I think it kept him in there way past his shelf life.

    Again, let's get back to the convo at hand (this isn't the MB thread).

    Why do we need a singular captain, and what value does it provide?
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The “because of this” part.
     
  12. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    In national teams the role is ceremonial, a tradition. And tradition is also that captains are more or less consistent throughout a cycle.

    I like traditions, most people seem to like them too, so that's how it works.
     
  13. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Yeah, that is the part I referenced, which started with "I saw". That means it's a personal recollection and hence, not sure why you are seeking a source or a link. Weird stuff.
     
  14. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    So no evidence here either of selecting a captain = better team performance. And no clue if this works, but we'll keep discussing and using it because of tradition. Not sure tradition works too well in sports, especially if it can potentially lead to problems in team selection and performance. But...tradition.
     
  15. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Yep. But also keep in mind it's more flexible now, so it's not as if you name a captain and must stick with him. Frankly, I think we have many more important things to talk about.
     
    yurch10 repped this.
  16. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    So instead of naming a captain and being beholden to having said captain on the field every game, maybe we just select a captain after each camp begins based on who is there and who is providing leadership?
     
    superdave repped this.
  17. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    That's not how it's regularly done. I don't see it happening. Someone will be the captain, and someone else will be named when that someone is not in camp. That's the way we've been doing it.

    So, let's say McKennie becomes our skipper, if in the January friendlies he's not around, someone like, say, Perry Kitchen can take the armband.

    In general, the captain is not someone who takes the tactical initiative on the field, but it's a good idea for him to be someone the other guys respect, and who can talk to refs without losing his head.

    Wes also only got 3 yellows in all the league minutes he played last season. That's not bad at all for a CM with defensive duties.
     
  18. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    A source is circulating that Sarachan has contacted Bradley for possibility for the upcoming games.

    If Bradley is named captain for the kickoff series after failing twice under different coaches...………………………………………….
     
    ussoccer97531 repped this.
  19. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Sarachan naming the captain already? Guess he's staying as Vermes's assistant then.
     
  20. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Understand how a captain is named. I'm trying to find some evidence that this is a useful way of doing it and assists in positive performances on the field.

    My argument is that, in my opinion, having MB as the captain forced everyone, specifically Arena these last few years when he clearly wasn't a top player, to ink him in and build the team around him because he was our captain. The results are in and it didn't work.

    If you don't agree with him being captain having much to do with his selection, fine. But I think everyone could at least admit his captaincy was at least a small piece of him being on the field.

    And even if you can't admit to that, in what sense did having him named captain every single game assist us? We missed the WC out of the easiest region. We had a group of players that should have qualified (for all the arguing, our talent top to bottom is better than Panama and Honduras by any measure you want to use).

    So you need to offer something more than "its tradition", and "we've always done it this way". Tradition used to force half of our work force to stay at home tending the house every day. Nfl teams used to run the ball 98 percent of the time because "that's the way it was always done". Turns out, some things don't make sense, despite what tradition says.
     
  21. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Proof? How about the best and most successful teams have one?

    France’s Lloris was named captain in 2012 and through this cycle.

    Germnay’s Lahm was captain throughout the 2014 cycle.

    Is that not enough proof that naming a captain works?

    Conversely, what top teams teams use a cycle of players as captains? I’ll note that France did from 2010-2012 and their upswing coincided with appointment of a single captain.
     
  22. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    Is that proof? Naming two of the best teams in the world that both had a "best in the world" player at their position they used as captain? Ok...

    I tend to think my "proof" is better, and that we would have been much better off cycling captains based on form/who was in camp/leadership ability (and likely would have been in the WC this year).

    Point is, there is zero real evidence one way or the other, and anyone who demands one captain for a cycle is doing it solely because we think that's what top teams do. This isn't a useful practice.

    We don't have any players good enough to always be on the field, which is the first real demand of a "captain" (besides CP, and I'd prefer just to let him be for a while without any additional demands besides "carry our team").

    You guys really want to name a captain for a team that has no identify, no direction, and no clear cut great players/starters except one? Will doom us to failure.

    Anyhow, like so many BS arguments, nobody is coming off their view, so this is stupid. I'll continue to think one captain is stupid in international soccer, you guys can keep arguing for a 19 year old CM because we need to follow tradition, and naming a captain will allow us to enter the promised land like Germany and France.
     
  23. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    The USMNT has traditionally had an identity - hard working, athletic and defensive team that plays better than its individual parts. Maybe getting the right captain helps us recapture that.

    There actually is a lot of proof as pretty much all of the best teams have a steady captain and do not use a committee. I supplied two names but can go much deeper although I think you know that. You are of course welcome to your opinion but I'll ask again, what successful team uses a captain by committee approach since not do so is "so stupid in international soccer"? Is it only stupid for teams at our level or for all teams?
     
  24. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
  25. yurch10

    yurch10 Member+

    Feb 13, 2004
    As others have said, it's just not needed where you are with a bunch of guys for maybe 2 weeks at a time.

    If we have a player who is consistently playing at a high level in a top European team, it's fine.

    We don't have that. We had MB, who everyone said was a top player and great leader, and mandated that he be on the field to lead us. He led us alright...

    As long as we aren't beholden to bringing in this captain every single camp, and inking him in the starting lineup, I really couldn't care less (cuz again, I don't think it's important at all). Basically, I see zero positives in having one long term captain, and have witnessed recent negatives. So why? Because tradition, the way teams have always done it, and france/germany had lahm/lloris.
     

Share This Page