If Ronaldo or Messi wins ballon d'Or this year it means no one else not called Ronaldo or Messi will win it, so it is perfectly ON topic conversation... You see the last two words in the title, the ones in brackets..? Would you initiate a creative, civilized discussion then?
Best players I've seen this year are Messi followed by Neymar then Kevin de Bruyne.. some rave about Salah who scores loads of goals but he misses so many easy chances .. I wouldn't have Cronaldo in the top 50 ..
lol please, I've made the same argument before within this thread so I know it is indeed on-topic conversation. Just some light-hearted ribbing.
Hmm...Barcelona certainly didn't look at their best against Chelsea. Makes me wonder if they truly are the UCL favourites everyone thought they were before the first set of R16 matches. Having said that, I think any team would find it very hard against Conte's Chelsea. They certainly know how to shut down teams, so perhaps it's more a credit to them rather than Barcelona being poor.
It's down to Barcelona, more precisely, their midfield. City showed already how can you clearly dominate Chelsea, away, playing possesion based football so it's not that Chelsea is extra tough. They are not even in the best form in league. Barcelona's game is too stationary, Messi has never been much of a mover on the pitch, but he never had to be, he had others that moved around and he filled the gaps in his sliding, invisible manner, when he had to. Now he doesn't have them. Rakitić is awful at impersonating Xavi, Busi is still Busi and Iniesta can't even play full 90 minutes anymore, tells you something about how much he contributes to "elasticity" of the midfield. When you put Paulinho in, you get balance in defense and you get more possesion, exclusively in the middle of the pitch, but you tremendously lose creativity, as seen in basically every single game they've played this season. I just don't understand how could they even attempt playing anything of tiki taka sort without 2 wide wingers (like Villa - Pedro, or Sane - Sterling). Yeah, yeah, having Alba so high and wide gives them room to exploit in the middle just as much if there was Neymar or Villa or Henry or whoever, but here is another huge problem arises with Alba being that high that nobody talks about. Alba to really make the most of his run forwards, he has to fully commit to them, which he does, which, if it doesn't work, leaves tremendous amount of space in the back and more importantly, Barcelona lose only bit of speed they had in both midfield and defense. As seen in Chelsea's case, nobody in Barcelona can stop Willian, Hazard, Pedro on the ball. They are too quick for anyone. Anyhow, if they want to be competitive in all areas they need to solve few things: LACK OF IDENTITY Are they going for 4-4-2 with less possesion (more direct style of play), more balance, less chances created, basically anything that Barcelona hasn't been so far over the years, or they will bring back wingers to the team and continue having Barcelona DNA (possesion, more goals scored, more goals conceded,..). I, perhapse, thought that you can mix these two things after el clasico, but you can't, obviously. DEFECTIVE MIDFIELD Make a change in a midfield already. Real is lightyears ahead in terms of midfield of the pitch and yet they have Casemiro who is infinitely worse player than Busquets. How is that possible? I think it would have been better if they lost in el clasico, because now it seems as if things are going right for them with such formation and they are not. They got caught in confirmation bias loop. They won that game because they have Messi and Zidane approached to the game completely wrong because of him.
You make great points and I agree with most of them. But Man City x Chelsea was a 1 x 0 affair. How was the game play ? Did Conte play the same exact way ? I didn't watch that game, but I did watch Man City x Man U where Mourinho parked the bus and Man City looked much like Barca did vs Chelsea. And even with Neymar and "elasticity", Atletico played the same way Chelsea did and frustrated Barca like Chelsea did in the previous seasons. And so did Juventus. Confirmation bias or not, it was impossible for Barca to change their game play with the players they had in the first 6 months. With Coutinho and a healthy Dembele now they have options.
It was an exaggeration to say he has changed football logic itself, I think. More acurate to say he is a full package of overrated aspects of the game. We could say he won last year in Paolo Rossi style, scoring in important games, delivering in the KO stages. Rossi scored much less goals, of course, but he played in a Era when WC basically set BDO ranking. And he delivered a performance for the eternity vs Brazil. If Cristiano had delivered the only 3 goals of his team vs the clear favorite in a WC, even scoring 3 pks or 3 tap ins in a empty net, I guess BDO would change the name for Cristiano d´or , which is not far away to eventually happen anyway. As for his BDOs in 2016 and 2013, he got more resemblance, respectively, with Ronaldo´2002 (a very well constructed narrative about leadership , just like Ronaldo´s comeback narrative) and Beckham second place in 1999 (his image won him the award, as a complete human being, leader, hard worker vs the cold genius , doing big charity, sexy for many. Even his flaws as trying multiple shots without think or asking for the ball all the time and getting nervous if someone else score became qualities, signs of his winning mentality etc).
I am not saying Barcelona is doing bad job relative to their current quality. They are basically at their optimum. There is not much more that they can do to make themselfs better at this very moment, but they had options and money in summer, as well as in winter and they made bad decisions. They went for marketability of players rather than necessity and even when they went for necessity in rare ocassions, they still made not as good decisions as they could. It's one of the least talent-condensed Barcelona squad in last decade or so, probably more. From having Thiago, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Sanchez, Pedro, Villa, Messi, Busquets, Keita, Dani Alves in 2012 to having Denis Suarez, Rakitić, Andre Gomes, Paulinho, old Iniesta, Sergi Roberto,... They miss quality and mroe importantly they miss quality that suits to Barcelona system. Chelsea played slightly bit different vs City than vs Barcelona. The same formation and system, but bit more agressive and i think they didn't go for quick Willian-Hazard-Pedro trio, but they went for Morata or Batshuayi, i am not sure tho. However, City had the same goal as Barca on how to attack them and they actually delivered. I don't think United vs City game can be compared to any of those games cuze United defends in different scheme, quite different.. it's different animal all together. Parking the bus is not just parking the bus, if it was so simple, everybody would park the bus against big teams and get positive result. There is more to it than just having players in defense, so comparing 4-2-3-1 with 3-4-3 is not possible. Last season Barcelona was a bit different case. Enrique, with Neymar on the pitch, had a power fire to do it properly, but he screwed up in more fundamental level of Barcelona's system. I talked about it already. But, Barcelona from last season and this season share some of the same problems, like old Iniesta and Rakitić.
To get my point across fully on how bad Barcelona did their transfer window i would like to show you how Barcelona could have changed this summer, with much lower transfer budget, to look much more like Barcelona: To qucikly explain the image. Obviously this implies that Neymar decided to stay, but let's forget about that for a moment. This is how they could have managed their team much better. First they should have sold Suarez and Rakitić. For that money buy Semedo, Iwobi, Seri. Why those three guys: 1. Semedo because of his pace. It's reeeeally useful to have a pacey(is that a word?) fullback when you are trying to keep possesion and press high. to be honest, i didn't know Semedo was this good until seeing him play this season, but if anything there are plenty of pacey right fullbacks that could do the same trick, like Bellerin. 2. Seri would have a role of Xavi from few years ago. Why i think he is much better fit for Barcelona despite being inferior player to Rakitić is, well, reasons are obvious if you've seen both of them play. He is much more comfortable with passing, he dictates the tempo of the game, he always offers a passing line to his teammates, he is capable of making through balls from deep, etc. obviously i would take Verratti, Kroos and many more players over Seri, but just to make the point really stick, i would like to show how easily it could have been done even without a huge transfer budget. 3. Iwobi might suprise you, but he is really type of player who would do the trick. He runs a lot, he makes quality runs. He is fairly comfortable with the ball and passing, but he doesn't have to be. His job would be purely tactical one, run all over the pitch and offer passing lines for Messi's through balls. He would excel at that as he does in Arsenal. Another thing i had in mind while choosing that player is to refrain from some superstar with huge ego that would refuse to defend. Because with Iwobi in this team you can see how easily this 4-3-3 formation could turn into 4-4-2 in defense. One of the major problems with Barcelona last season was that Neymar, Messi and Suarez didn't defend at all, EVER. That simply can't work like that, that's why Suarez has to go (the worst of three). Iwobi would contribute defensively because he has no ego. Another thing i had at the back of my mind is to give Messi two things: 1. His space from 20-35 meters off the goal without anyone disturbing it. (like Dybala had in few games for Argentina). It's his and no one else's. Suarez's departure would come in handy in that case as well. 2. Offer him as much runners as possible. In this case i wanted to make as little changes as possible, but i would definitely considering putting a bit more energetic players in the team (instead of Iniesta for example). However Neymar, Alba and Iwobi (plus Semedo sometimes) should be enough for Messi to do his magic in terms of passing. I am pretty sure that this team, although it might seem worse at the paper, than Dembele, Rakitić, Suarez, etc. would be a lot better and make a fearful side that nobody would like to encounter.
Its an interesting query improving Barcelona. With Neymar gone I still think Iwobi or better Pulisic would do the trick, adding movement and helping defensively. Another consideration could be acquiring Allan, who has a quarter of Busquet's Transfermarkt value but can move forward aswell as defend. Busquets is 29, a good age to make profit.
I don't know how Iwobi even entered this conversation. He's been abysmal for us. Fair enough, the whole of Arsenal is. When discussing Arsenal players, one has to take into account the Wenger factor which is capable of making any player look bad in his current team. Still, Iwobi is a horrible example, even if I actually understand your main point. There's no point in talking about what would happen if Suarez was sold instead of Neymar though. Couldn't Dembele and Coutinho be facilitators for Suarez and Messi?
Because you've probably watched games as games are usually watched (just watch where the ball is all the time. Nothing wrong with that, just saying..). Iwobi caught my attention on several ocassions and although on the ball he makes mistakes and still isn't proficient, off the ball he provides exactly what this Barcelona lacks, movement. And i don't mean that in some trivial way, movement with purpose. His pass and move game is really strong! I'll tell you one thing, it's not a coincedence that Wenger keeps giving him chances in first team and as a first sub even with Walcott, Wellbeck and similar players were/are also there. That's probably not the argument to make when Arsenal is where it is, but okay.. Anyhow, i had that argument with my brother who is also a big Arsenal fan, he has never realized that until i highlighted it because if you don't watch one player individually (track his movement and decisions), only thing you will see are the things he does on the ball or when he is nearby it. Iwobi thinks when he plays, i like that a lot. Considering team selection, i don't think that having someone a bit, individually, less capable player, along side Messi and Neymar, can make much harm. At the end of the day, that was a team with limited transfer budget, obviously it can be done better, Iwobi would be enough tho. I should probably note that i've seen around 10-15 Arsenal games this season.. @annoyedbyneedoflogin, Pulisic is a great suggestion, as well as Allan who i actually thought of while making the team, but choosed Seri who is more like Xavi. It's fair to say that it pointless talking about it because Neymar left. From this point forward to answer my two questions i said they need to solve: 1. Keep Barcelona identity. 4-3-3. 2. Bring a world class player that fits the system This is how i would do the summer window and how i think Barcelona should look next season: Again getting rid of Suarez and Rakitić. And since they've already bought Coutinho and Dembele, it's hard not to play them or to expect them making another huge transfer like that without selling big beforehand. Verratti is only addition. If not Verratti then any world class deep lying playmaker comfrotable on the ball because in this case Coutinho would play as an advanced playmaker (using FM terms). This is not the team i would prefer because i am not sure how Coutinho would respond in this role at all, but they've left no choice with the types of transfers they made. I like Coutinho on the left wing even less because he is too similar player to Messi in the sense that both want to recieve the ball in feet. Neither of them makes runs. Although in alternative if Coutinho did play as a left wing it would be like this: In which case Rakitić could stay, but would still prefer Paulinho. The key to this system would be that box to box central midfielder who would, at times, act as a striker as well. Isco has an important role as well. he would have to cover gaps while in possesion that Messi and Coutinho don't cover already. He would e capable of doing that perfectly.
Nah man. It is recognizing that movement is pointless if you can't do anything with the ball. Take another example: Danny Welbeck. He gets into a lot of good positions, make good runs for the team, but is complete mediocrity with the ball at this feet. The Barcelona identity you speak of is demanding both off the ball and on the ball. Iwobi can get into any good position he wants, but he's technically inconsistent and make bad decisions on the ball. Moves would break down with him. Why is keeping Suarez such a bad idea?
But Welbeck is not Iwobi. This might be one of those moments when an individual is evaluated based on team's performance. The same way people are saying that Kroos is having an awful season because Real does and so on... I think playing along side Neymar and Messi would make quite a difference. If you look through history of the game, they are many average players in great teams that played well because, well, they had played in great teams. Iwobi'd assimilate in that amazing team without problems. I might be wrong tho cuze i've seen him in like 12 games this season (and dozen in last) and i might have seen games in which he was good at, but that doesn't change what ive seen, i mean, when he performs well, that's basically showing you what he can potentially offer, so idk.. Suarez is 31, he is visibly getting worse and i think it would be a great idea to get big money from him till you can, espacially because he wasn't a fit for Barcelona in first place and the more essential positions, like central midfielder, should have a priority. He doesn't have to be sold if they still have money in the bank for big transfer.. It's funny you say Iwobi doesn't have game on the ball so he can't get into that Barcelona team, are you refering that Suarez has one? Suarez is suprisingly bad at holding onto possesion. He is literally a player less in possesion because, firstly, he doesn't offer himself in such passing lines to retain possesion (he is an actual number 9, not a false nine, which is something, if you don't remember, Guardiola insisted upon through out his whole career at Barcelona because it matters!), and even when he offers them, he doesn't have composure to keep it in possesion. He is very sloppy with his passing and balance. He can do this type of passes: but that's never been Barcelona style of play and it doesn't work all the time with this Barcelona. This type of passes i just linked to, imo, makes him the best striker since R9, but that's not what Barcelona needs at all. It's counterintuitive to play possesion based football with someone like Suarez on the pitch because it results in things we've seen against Chelsea,.. nothing. Barcelona has possesion in the middle third of the pitch and can't advance forward because Messi is the only player who asks for the ball in between channels for Busquets type of passes like this: This is tiki taka. If this was current Barcelona, Rakitić instead of Xavi would be right next to Busquets doing nothing, Iniesta would be left to Busquets, Suarez would make runs behind the last 4 and Messi would be left to do nothing the moment he recieves the pass and would have to go solo or try to create from nothing. This is what Suarez wants: Pass behind last defenders. Messi can provide him with that and he does, but that's an individual quality that brings Barcelona success (which was the case for past 4 seasons) and not tiki taka whatsoever. I seriously don't remember last time Barcelona completely outplayed opposition in big game via tiki taka. He quite clearly isn't player for Barcelona's system so Barcelona, and especially Messi, had to adopt a lot to blend Suarez into a system resulting in last 3 seasons by Barcelona and lack of identity.
Neymar is now, end of February, #2 in the odds for winning the 2018 Ballon d'Or. His odds are twice as good as Cristiano Ronaldo currently, who still sits at third. Neymar's starting position is thus very strong. https://www.oddschecker.com/football/football-specials/ballon-dor/player-of-the-year http://www.nicerodds.co.uk/fifa-ballon-d-or Now, I certainly agree Ronaldo has been a tad overrated the past couple of years, but the mechanisms behind that 'overrating' are not necessarily self-evident. As with any sport, also football, there is a natural tendency to regress to the mean and the natural level. New York Times article of yesterday: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/24/sports/olympics/final-medal-count-norway.html It is the same mechanism with football and the Ballon d'Or. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...-sports-dismal-champions-league-viewing-figu/
How can Tony Kroos be the 10th best player in the world after the season he's having ... not quite as ridiculous as Cronaldo being the third best ... He's not even the third best player in Real Madrid's front six ...
Interesting close-up footage Somehow many players (of different levels) look different when seen in action close up.
It doesn't necessarily show who is the 'best', but who the bookmakers see as most likely to win the Ballon d'Or at this point in the year. Recent history has shown Cristiano his strong starting position, and that Kroos is more likely than for ex. Modric to get the plaudits and accolades. This is also a tournament year, and Real Madrid is still in contention for another Champions League.
Won't matter. PSG is suffering the consequences of not being properly tested competitively on a consistent enough basis. Also, the fact that they retained Emery after 1) Suffering that pathetic travesty of a knockout stage loss to Barcelona 2) Losing Ligue 1 to Monaco is reason enough to not have pity on them. His pathetic nature was palpable after moaning about the referee after the first leg against Real. They won't win anything substantial with him at the helm. Real Madrid and similar clubs have continued success because the structures that compose these clubs are great in nature. Structures that were not bought but properly developed over time. PSG will continue to suffer as long as they continue to diverge from the rest of the league they play in. Thrashing the likes of Toulouse each week does not properly prepare you for the Champions League, nor does it cultivate a motivation in players that is continuous and unchanged over the course of a season.
Mbappe is not that good anyway. He can't replicate Pele from 1958, Messi's hattrick el clasico or Neymar's performance in Copa Libertadores.. i might be wrong tho, we'll see.
Conflicting reports about the severity of his injury, I doubt he will be ready for the RM game though.