Next Ballon d'Or winner that isn't CR7 or LM10 (and when)?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by BocaFan, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. benficafan3

    benficafan3 Member+

    Nov 16, 2005
    It isn't and I agree with your mentioning of the English clubs performances relative to when they had the English players you mentioned.

    I believe it all comes down to the fundamental structures these organizations are a part of. Specifically, in regards to oil-clubs performance in the CL being poor. I believe this is down to the fact that these clubs do not have structural, historical basis for achievements in these competitions. It is why teams like Benfica and Porto continue to outperform wealthier clubs, despite having limited resources. Benfica, specifically, is a club whose structure goes back to the days of European dominance in the 1960s. Although, that isn't to say this is a definitive trait, as there are exceptions. Ajax, for example, for a variety of reasons both within and outside their control, have not adjusted to modern football nearly as well as Benfica, despite having even more of claim to historical achievements than Benfica. Chelsea are on the opposite end of these 'exceptions', where their oil money has, again, for specific reasons, allowed them to triumph in manners other 'oil' clubs have not.

    On your point regarding the English clubs, I believe ultimately this comes down to how connected the respective league is to the nation it itself occupies. The EPL during the period you mentioned blossomed much in part to the importance they put on developing English players. Recent years, brought on by 'newfound' EPL money, has resulted in a deviation from that model and an influx of foreign players, to the malaise of English players, of which focus has shifted from. This is much in part what helps explain, at least in my opinion, why Spain's success in recent years coincided with Barcelona, and La Liga's success, as a whole. I believe this dynamic may be turning in England, however, given what I've seen in the rise of likes of Harry Kane, Dele Alli, as well as recent achievements of England in youth competitions this summer. To what degree that reversion is, I can't say yet though.
     
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  2. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Real Madrid is certainly the favourite to win it 3 times in a roll, but the UCL is highly unpredictable. We have no idea how Madrid would fare against any of the top EPL sides, for example. Madrid's style might be a bad match for one of them.

    What if one of midfield three gets injured? It is no coincidence that Madrid's rise coincide with them having the best midfield in the world, just as Barcelona.
     
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  3. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    They did lose to Juventus in 2015 semi final with Modrić being injured.

    Btw, that's why i think he is their best player. The raise came with Modrić. He has impressively won 3 ucls out of 5 seasons he were there being essential player in all of them. 2 times when Real failed was his first season and when he struggled with injuries. Not to mention that before Modrić they haven't won ucl in 12 years.
    It's not all due to him, but big chunk clearly is.
     
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  4. ko242

    ko242 Member+

    Jul 9, 2015
    i think you are pretty much spot on with everything you said here. however, i do think that if barcelona are fortunate with injuries (and the signings of coutinho and demebele) then they can compete on the same level as madrid. though i still momentarily put madrid ahead. remember real madrid only won the league by 3 points last season. and that was a season in which barcelona performed poorly. real madrid relied heavily on their bench. and now the likes of morata and james are gone. although they do have bale assuming he does not get injured. so i don`t think madrid are as far ahead as you think.

    as you said, enrique did a very poor job of player selection and barcelona are suffering because of it.
     
  5. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    We beat barca without modric just the other day. We have some good options on the bench which is what made us so strong last season.
     
  6. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Is not just him but I agree that he's been fundamental. i believe we lost la liga two years ago because he missed a lot of games due to injury. Casemiro as well has been fundamental for us..specially in the last two CL campaigns.. and he's also scored some clutch goals for us in CL as well.
     
  7. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    I wonder how they would field Coutihno, Dembele, Messi and Suarez all at the same time.
    We do need to strengthen our attack. That is currently a concern. Asensio seems to be picking up from James very well but a backup striker is definitely needed.
     
  8. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Pretty simple tbh

    Couthino in midfield providing much needed vision and creativity and through balls ...

    Dembele just replaces Neymar on turn left alongside Suarez and Messi as usual .

    It only gets complicated if we get Dybala as well as the other two :)


    It's funny seeing you worrying about YOUR squad !

    Have a look at ours at Barcelona :)
     
  9. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    I figured that was the case but that can unbalance your midfield - I have not seen much defensive effort from Coutihno.. He is not truly a direct replacement for Iniesta since he plays more closer to goal. It can work though.. just have to see.
    Yes, I am because Bale plays like shit now and Benz is Benz.. disappears a lot, and plays like he doesn't even care to score sometimes. Cristiano in 10 minutes, first game back, and in 10 minutes did what both have failed to do in so many games now since the start of pre-season.. Same with Asensio..
     
  10. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Anyway, I don't see Barca getting both Coutinho and Dembele.

    In terms of balance, I think a lot depends on whether Busquets has a bounce-back season or will he struggle again? A good season from Busquets added to the upgrades to the back-4 would make Barca more solid than last season defensively. But would still be weaker offensively of course.
     
  11. TitoTata

    TitoTata Member+

    Jun 26, 2014
    Na ... We WILL get both Coutinho and Dembele - I'm confident that the board HAVE to achieve that as a minimum..
     
  12. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I can't remember where, but Xavi gave an interview saying that Busquets won't ever return to his best form under Enrique's current system. This is because Busquets excels in the old Barcelona system. In the new system, one that revolved around maximizing MSN, Busquets was not the right man for the role.

    Xavi didn't criticize Enrique for it though. He said, it made sense that when you have MSN, you maximize them, but this came with a price.

    Perhaps with Neymar gone, things would be different?
     
  13. ko242

    ko242 Member+

    Jul 9, 2015
    rakitic will have to suffer playing time. but i think he would stay as iniesta is showing his age. and iniesta cannot play regularly.
    i don`t think playing all players would be a problem. dembele would simply replace neymar. what i also like about dembele is that he can also play as a midfielder and coutinho can play as a left winger should dembele get injured. rafinha is still on the team and he makes a good midfielder.
    i think isco and asensio have clearly more to offer than bale from what i have seen. and if it weren`t for price tags bale would be on the bench having to fight for asensio`s place. obviously in football, we often don`t do things purely based on a players ability. as bale cost so much, he either must start or leave teams. real madrid have also received 2 other players and i am interested to see if they can play on a level similar to asensio. kovacic is still there, so that makes for annother good player in the midfield.
    from what it looks like madrid is covered. not entirely sure of barcelona`s defense entirely but if coutinho and dembele come, i will not be worried about their offense.

    @robnycus is PSG or Barcelona your preferred team?
     
  14. comme

    comme Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 21, 2003
    There was a good article in Monday's Times from Marcotti who was saying that in 2015 when PSG got their previous sanction from UEFA for FFP they basically were able to "plea-bargain" their penalty because no other party made a complaint against them.

    If another party does make a complaint against them then they will potentially be subject to a harsher penalty (exclusion from the CL, reduced squad size). Anyone know of anyone who might like to make a complaint?

    Wait and see until 2018 and then we might see what the consequences of this transfer are.
     
  15. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    out of the two PSG of course. Only two kinds of football fans sympathize with Barcelona, their fans and those who dislike Real Madrid..
     
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  16. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    What people don't realize is that Coutinho has never been 50+ successful passes per game player and Iniesta has never been under 70 successful passes per game player. You might think those are all just numbers that will change unnoticeably as Coutinho changes his environment, but you are wrong. There is much needed adaption that Coutinho would need to undergo to replace Iniesta in his role, and quite frankly, nobody guarantees you his is capable of adapting it.
    I mean, he is definitely technically capable of playing that role, but is he good enough mentally to change his perspective of the game and adapt to completely different dynamics and decision making process?

    For example, David Silva would easily replace current Iniesta in his role, now although Silva and Coutinho are both great playmakers, even if you know nothing about football, watching them play, you get different perception of both. That's because Coutinho is a game changer like Messi, Neymar. He is not capable of running the show like David Silva, Iniesta,.. at least not yet.

    So in my opinion, buying Coutinho is a huge risk. Barcelona's ideal transfer would be Thiago. He is exactly what they need, EXACTLY. Technically gifted player who anticipates opposition's plays very well so he is capable of intercepting them. Probably they can't get him so Eriksen would be a better option than Coutinho. What i like about Eriksen is his work rate. He is in top 5 in premier league when it comes to distance covered. He is basically better version of Rakitić in every segment of the game.
    I think even Seri would be a better option than Coutinho.
     
  17. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Let me take a good laugh at that.. :laugh::laugh:
     
  18. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
  19. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    And Casemiro wasn't key to any of that. Yes he did score some goals (LUCK), but the things he offers to Real Madrid can be replicated by dozens of players currently active in the world, while the things Modrić offers to their game could have been replicated only by few players in history of the game. You are mixing apples with oranges, with apple (Modrić) being way more significant.
     
  20. Afghan-Juventus

    Afghan-Juventus Member+

    Oct 14, 2012
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Afghanistan
    Juventus seems to be underrated on this forum. We just thrashed Barca and Monaco last season. Imo our greatest weakness was a lack of depth in midfield and attack. Now that has more than made up for this season. Though our defense has been weakened if Rugani reaches his potential he will surpass all of BBC.
     
  21. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Because Barcelona already let go of Thiago..
    They are clueless when it comes to developing new talent.
     
  22. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Modric is fantastic

    And casemiro is the best dm currrently
     
  23. robnycus

    robnycus Member+

    Jun 28, 2010
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
  24. Afghan-Juventus

    Afghan-Juventus Member+

    Oct 14, 2012
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Afghanistan
    @robnycus

    Modric is more crucial to Real Madrid than Ronaldo right?
     
  25. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    How that sentence has anything to do with me saying that Thiago is exactly what they need? He fits in their system perfectly, already now. I said that that transfer is very unlikely to happen, which is not the point here, nor whether Barcelona can develop young talents or not (which is completely false to say that they can't btw).

    I am not sure whether that date underneath your avatar is the day you joined this forum or the day of your birth because that's how much sense you have.

    No, Casemiro is DM that plays in the best team in the world which why he seems as the best DM in the world. He is not.
    Matić, Vidal, Matuidi, Kante, Marchisio, Javi Martinez, etc... those are players that could easily replace Casemiro in Real Madrid and they would still be as dominant as they are right now, perhapse even better.
     
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