The next one to win the Ballon d'Or (or the World Player) is.... the one who pays the most money and has the biggest bandwagon. Five lines for two countries versus 20 pages for two persons 879679360051011585 is not a valid tweet id Judge Garcia
I haven't really discussed this with anybody, but Sergio Aguero has always given me the appearance of a good player whom is good at his profession, but a talented player who doesn't love his profession. That's a big difference between a player like Aguero and a player like Romario. (And I mention Romario, because Aguero often times gets described as the modern day Romario, or as the closest modern equivalent that there is to Romario.) Romario loved football, to the point that he retired in his 40s, not to mention the things he could do with a ball, which are skills that only a player who genuinely loves the sport can achieve. Aguero simply doesn't appear to have that love for the sport, that mentality for the sport, that could possibly elevate his game - and now it's too late for Aguero to undo an entire career of performing below his arguable "real potential." A good league player, but he has repeatedly disappointed in the Champions League, the World Cup, and the Copa America. In any case, I think you are spot on about Aguero.
Argentina did have big game players. Their talent pool was as good as Spain's in 2010, but of course, they wasted their best chance at WC glory since 1986 by appointing Maradona. Sad.
do people like you and @carlito86 actually watch the games or do you guys just make your arguments based on google searches. The only team i can remember that i have seen sooo disorganized and mismanaged in recent years is the modern day cameroon and france in 2010. if you watched argentina in 2010, you wouldn`t even be talking about talent pool. that team was awful!!! argentina is far from having big game players if you actually decide to watch the games
Can't be bothered to go back and forth on this so I will keep it brief 1.)on paper Argentina's attack can match any NT of the last 25 years This is a undeniable fact so I wont explain further 2.)hazard is unproven at the highest level(this is also a undeniable fact) If performing in champions league is the measure of greatness for post zidane era footballers than im afraid eden hazard has completely failed the test Aged 25 years old he has done absolutely nothing noteworthy in the CL(not a single great performance against an above average side) He is not even the clear standout performer on the Belgium NT side I agree he has been a consistent performer in the epl but against whom? Firstly the pl is arguably not even a top 2 league in Europe His Great league performances have come against mid level teams, a Manchester United team who've been in a rebuilding process,a arsenal team who have had their worst season in 2 decades etc Hazard has alot boxes to tick before we can rank him a consistent top 10 player in Europe. Hazard has one standout quality and that is undoubtedly his dribbling technique(but still when was his dribbling ever a factor against a legitimately great side?) Your propaganda piece about aguero is completely unfounded. Please watch games of aguero at the start of 14/15 before his season was cut down by injury(he was if for a short period of time the undisputed best striker in europe)
Why do you rate Argentina 2010 (that is, the Argentina 2010 that Maradona could've appointed) so highly? I really don't see how Argentina 2010 was that great, with or without Maradona. I mean, yes Maradona made the mistake of not including Roman Riquelme and Javier Zanetti, but other than those two, I don't remember who else could've offered considerable improvements over the Argentina team assembled by Maradona. Overall, the biggest f*ck up for me was Maradona himself, not necessarily the players that Maradona selected. Even Spain 2010 under Maradona would've probably failed early.
You being Italian, must remember Italy 2002 - Totti, Del Piero, Vieri, Inzaghi, Maldini, Nesta, Cannavaro, Buffon, etc. A far better 'attack' than Argentina 2014 or Argentina 2010, and that's 2002 we're talking about here, 2002 was 15 years ago - you really don't need to stretch 25 years to find national teams with better attacks than Argentina 2010-2014. And of course, Italy 2002 sure didn't performed to their 'on paper' potential, and that team was DEMONSTRABLY more talented than the crop of players (both offensively and defensively) who surround Messi at Argentina. As an Italian you should be perfectly aware of this. Also Holland 1990 'on paper' could match many of the great national teams over the years, but of course that team didn't played to their 'on paper' potential, and furthermore, that team actually had players who had proven themselves at Euro 1988. Argentina's Aguero and Higuaín have never proven themselves at NT level; Di Maria is never fit for the difficult games where Messi is expected to simply 'carry' the team single-handedly. Bottom line: your 'on paper' argument is pointless in the face of reality. Completely divorced from reality, which is not uncommon in you (if it allows you to deflate Messi, which is really all you use this forum for). Aguero was the undisputed best striker in Europe for the start of a season... What?? So Aguero didn't even needed to prove himself at the KO stage of the Champions League (i.e., not the start of the season)?? But then you criticize Eden Hazard for not proving himself when and where it matters the most?? Honestly, in what universe was Aguero ever the best striker in Europe for a prolonged period of time (hopefully a prolonged period of time that actually includes the business end of the season, instead of the start of the season), but then somehow Eden Hazard is just not even good enough to be included into the Top 10 players of Europe at any point in his career?? I bet that your opinion about Hazard would be significantly different, if only Hazard played for Argentina, and if only Hazard didn't delivered for Argentina... I'm sure that your opinion of Hazard would be, "He is amazing at club level, but for Argentina, it further demonstrates how Messi makes great players look average... Ibrahimovic, Hazard, Aguero - all great players when they don't play with Messi... When will people begin to realize that Messi is not much better than Ronaldo, if at all better??" So desperate you always are.
Why the hate? Yes, I watched all of Argentina's games at the World Cup, it's how I made a lot of money betting against them. That team was sorely mismanaged. I'm not even sure if Maradona did any preparation at all beyond just telling his players to go out there and do their best, like a middle school PE teacher. That team wasn't awful because of the talent pool, it was because of the manager. How can you say that Argentina lack big game players in 2010 when the Inter Treble winning side had 4 Argentinians, plus Tevez plus Messi plus Mascherano (who proved in 2014 again that he can more than handle himself in the biggest of games.) Not just Zanetti and Riquelme. Esteban Cambiasso who was a key player of the treble winning side also wasn't included. Lucho Gonzalez who had a great year at Marseille, winning the domestic double and being top assister in Ligue 1 also wasn't included. Cambiasso and Masherano would have been a double pivot that could compete against anyone at the tournament. Maradona didn't take enough players with good momentum into the team, opting instead for 36 year old Martin Palermo and Championship player, Jonas. Maradona was one of the biggest eff up of 2010 World Cup. He completely blew it at every level, from player selection to the actual team management, preparation, and tactics during the tournament itself. Even if he picked the right players, he wouldn't be able to do anything with them. That doesn't change the fact that Argentina had a talent pool capable of winning the world cup in 2010.
dunno about @poetgooner case, however, it's sure-fire that in particular @carlito86 does not watch historical matches in full. A quick browse through stat sheets supplemented by 5 minute compilation video on youtube and a lot of white noise as a result of it in the end. He underrates players he does not like when he has seldom watched them players to a lengthy extend. But I am sure most people here (bar Cristianophiles) don't take his claims seriously nohow.
I'm sure you're being sarcastic here, since we all know he is a native of the English speaking world, or lets say this individual at least stems from the Anglosphere. And since his love for all things Cristiano and ManUnited percolates every bid of his posts I'll go with a native of good old England. But Italian? LMFAO!
Portugal WITH RONALDO - did not win vs. Chile (in Russia). Portugal WITHOUT RONALDO - did win vs. France (in France).
I will not be surprised if this cronaldo's portugal lose twice to this chile if they meet again. No wonder messi's argentina have no copa till now
Chile is a nasty team to face against. They have some quality players like Bravo, Vidal and Sanchez; but more importantly, the sum of their parts is greater than the individuals. Chile have great chemistry, which is very rare in international football. They are also a team of warriors who fight for every loose ball and have a winning mentality.
2012-2017 Chelsea is nowhere near the best teams in the world. Chelsea was knocked out in the group stage in 2012/13, clearly outplayed by Atletico in 2013/14, clearly outplayed by PSG in the following two seasons and were not even in the CL this year. Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, PSG, Juventus, Borussia Dortmund, Monaco and Manchester City have all reached more quarterfinal appearances than Chelsea have in the last 5 years. Nedved didn't achieve much in the CL with Lazio either, then he joined a better Juventus side and displayed one of the best CL campaigns I have ever seen from a midfielder in 2002/03. It took Nedved until the age of 30 to shine in the CL, but nobody doubts his qualities. If you give Hazard a better team, either by Conte building a formidable Chelsea side like they were from 2005-2010, or by Eden transferring to Real Madrid, I have no doubt he will shine in the CL then.
By the way, if it wasn't already clear, the incompetent ex-president Rosell of Barcelona (2010-2014) is now finally also brutally exposed. http://8factfootball.com/2017/06/29...ive-things-we-learned-from-the-garcia-report/ The man who weakened the dynasty.
you can go back with all that paper this and paper that bullshit! the fact of the matter is that football is played on the pitch. will you start making arguments based on your analysis of games and not what you have searched on google!!! greece, euro 2004; denmark, euro 92; norwich, european cup 79,80; Chesea, CL 2012; Portugal, Euro 2016; so don`t talk about on paper this and on paper that. your basis of conversation holds no water. anyone with a computer and an average IQ can make the same assumption that you just made. that`s why your explanation is so brief. barcelona from 06-08 had an incredible roster, possibly the best in europe, and did very little with it. ronaldinho, thierry henry, messi, deco, yaya toure, etc. so please! stop this on paper shit. and ageuro has been sooo great in CL, huh???!!! clearly beats hazard in that category?! that`s bullocks! there is no standout performer for Belgium, period!!! you can argue against hazard`s top perfromances if you want. but it is worth saying that when chelsea won the league in 14/15, the number 3 and 4 teams in the league, manchester united and arsenal, are the top shitty teams that you are mentioning. and if the epl is that bad!!! then i don`t want to hear shit about ageuro`s performances in 14/15 that you seem to be so adamant about. hazard and aguero are playing against the same crop of teams. so if you are giving hazard shit for performing well against teams that finished 3rd and 4th in the EPL, then i don`t wanna hear shit about Aguero. and i will mention it again, aguero has not been and never will be as close to winning a balon d`or as hazard will. hazard must be damn good, if he can regularly take over games because all he can do is dribble. but apparently you seem to be unaware of the fact, that no player can perform at the level of hazard if all he can do is dribble. it seems that you are not a student of the game, and are unaware of the decision making on the ball, awareness of space and teammates off the ball, and utilizing space when he has the ball or in making runs, that goes into making the player that hazard is today. when in fact, there are many good dribblers, such as lucas on PSG, who is no where near top caliber, all though he is a fantastic dribbler because he lacks these subtle understandings of the game, that you can`t seem to grasp.
ok. so i see where we disagree. you are judging the argentian players as `big game players`because of what they did at club level. i am judging argentina as a team that lacks `big game players` because of the lack of performances that they bring to the NT level. the fact of the matter is that players don`t automatically bring their club performances to the NT level. if that was the case, kaka and ronaldinho would have torn WC 2006 apart! but ronaldinho only ever put on a solid performance for brazil in 2002 when he played for PSG, and never once performed on the same level for brazil as he did for barcelona. so yes, argentina did have `big game`players based on what they did at club level, i agree with you on that. but neither of them was able to replicate that same level for the NT, whatever the reason. and i don`t blame maradona, because the same has applied to argentina during the years after his tenure with the national team. there has been a lack of attacking prowess for argentina in all the major tournaments since 2010. please tell me, if i am misunderstanding you.
And that includes Messi - is just that he is so far superior to these other players that the performance gap difference between club level and NT level is less noticeable for Messi.
Well, when players have a history of turning up for big games, then yes, I consider them big game players. So when they can't do the same for their NT, I try to figure out why. I don't believe that most players who are big game players for their club simply just suck when they pull on the NT shirts. It's true that for some of them, it is like that. It is psychological. For most, I don't think this is true, and it's hard to prove anyway, so I try to find other reasons why. Just a quick example. Kaka and Ronaldinho in 2006 didn't just become bad in the summer. That Brazil team wasn't put together very well. The fact that these two players spent their years playing with Eto and Shevchenko, only to play with a slower lazier player like R9 in 2006, would obviously affect their playstyle. But I agree, Argentina post 2010 has lacked the players, but that's because 2010 was Argentina was the year Argentina's best big game players last hurrah. The likes of Zanetti, Cambiasso, Tevez, Milito and Walter Samuel. Players who have proven themselves in many big games all disappeared due to age afterwards. Who were they replaced with? Players who are great in the league (Higuain and Aguero, for example) but with no proven track record in big cup games. Argentina making it to the final of 2014 is the story of their defense. They had less defensive talents in 2014 than in 2010, but somehow made it all through the knockout round without conceding a single goal. In the final, keeping Germany out for 90 min is all you can ask of that Argentina defense. The attack let them down by not being able to score just that one goal that would have made history.
Also... Portugal WITH RONALDO - did not win vs. Mexico (in Russia). Portugal WITHOUT RONALDO - did win vs. Mexico (in Russia). I'm sure that Ronaldo being "the big game player" that he is, was never actually interested in the relatively insignificant Confederations Cup. (But it's still self-evidently curious how Portugal seems to get nearly identical results with him or without him, against relatively 'difficult' opponents.) In any case, I'd love to see Ronaldo join Manchester United and see how his big game performances probably 'inexplicably' disappear at the Champions League.
Portugal is very good and organized team with or without Ronaldo. Having that said, Portugal is better with Ronaldo. Having that said, Messi is better than Ronaldo. Having that said, Ronaldo will win ballon d'Or his year 100%. Having that said, ballon d'Or is bullshit and became irrelevant and it heavily gravitates towards attackers. Having that said, Messi is better this year regardless, as always... Okay, with that kid talk being over. I think 2019 will be the year someone else will win ballon d'Or (2017 - Ronaldo, 2018 - MessI), and if i had to guess i would go for Neymar.
That's funny because it's true. LMAO. Neymar or Hazard seemingly have the talent to win the Ballon d'Or - it's mostly just a matter of who delivers the big moments in the KO stage of the Champions League and/or the KO stage of the World Cup.
Neymar is more of a goalscorer than Hazard and he will score more in next few season so i have no question who between them has more chances to win ballon d'Or. Neymar is better anyway.
That's probably true, but the Ballon d'Or is about who wins, it isn't necessarily about who was actually the best player - at least that's been the trend of the Ballon d'Or ever since 2013.
The trend is to select the best player of the best team. Do you really think Chelsea will overtake Barcelona till 2019 or if Hazard moves to Real that he will be that dominant? I can't see a player winning ballon d'Or with 20 goals in a year anymore. I can't picture that. Btw, Neymar has already been regarded higher than Hazard on ballon d'Or list, in last few years soo.. If you takeaway Messi and Ronaldo, marketing wise, Neymar is the next best thing, playing in one of the best teams and scoring a lot of goals. It's inevitable that he wins ballon d'Or.