Next Ballon d'Or winner that isn't CR7 or LM10 (and when)?

Salah hasn’t even been the best player at Liverpool this season ..

 

Close to past prime Ronaldo maybe but was nowhere near Messi
Nowhere near

Objective sources as whoscored rate salah as not even a top 3 player in the PL last season
Outside of goals he wasn't better than hazard last season let alone KDB
The goals masked otherwise relatively Normal performances
It was one of the all time seasons by a striker in the PL era
But thats it

Messi was last season one of the best domestic campaigns ever(in recorded history of football)
In the same class as 2011/12 and 2014/15

In the CL you could make a strong case that salah and Messi were close and in the WC Messi has a slight edge
Overall salah last season/calender year wasnt close remotely comparable for one to say he stood a chance

Chance against a past prime 33 year old Ronaldo? Maybe
Chance against Messi fully fit and still in his prime? Impossible

 

In that case we might have to wait for another World Cup year when both Messi and Ronaldo will be out of their prime. While new talents like Leroy Sane or Mbappe can shine. Neymar, Hazard, Salah might have a chance too if they retain their form

 

What has kept Ronaldo in the debate is his champions league performance(s)

I never argued salah with mediocre technique for a "great" player is at that level
His season was at the level of one of hazards PFA campaigns and hazard has had at least 2-3 of those

Messi would've been a deserving winner but the roma performance was a big disappointment
There is no getting around this

There is no equivalence between salah and Ronaldo in class or form except in rare cases as the first half of 17/18 (4 league goals) which was his worst stretch of form since the first half of 2008/09

 

The not much more is still more than salah who outside of goals had NO vision
All his assists and passes last season were simple lay offs

If you think CR even past his prime was just a tapin merchant dependent on service and not involved in build up than there is nothing more to be said here

 

You're overreacting a bit here
I said your application of double standards was hypocritical

I did not call you a hypocrite in absolute terms
Lets not exaggerate (you've said and repped way worse than this about me and I never "cried")

Back on topic
Ronaldo has the record for most assists in the champions league history
Even so his creative ability cannot be measured solely through this record

There are the pre assists of which he has many
The pre assisted goals of which he also has many

Salah isn't and never will be comparable to CR in technique (he is actually closer to suarez this season particularly in first touch)
10 years ago Salah would look like a more goal oriented version of valencia,Ashley young,or nani 10/11
But that's it

I said and was laughed at that Salah was comparable(not style necessarily) to RVN in his 44 goal season 02/03 (with many assists too and even solo goals that Salah could dream of)
RVN was considerably more technical but Salah was faster which gave the illusion of him being more dangerous


I love the premier league don't get me wrong but hate the reactionary punditry that goes along with it

Suarez 13/14 with 15 out of 31 goals against bottom 3 PL teams and 0 vs top 4 is allegedly at the same level as Ronaldo and Messi

Mo salah effectively a pace merchant with very good finishing skills was also allegedly a ballon dor podium candidate

Aguero who isn't even statistically or technically better than prime RVN(79 goals in his first 100 Manchester United games top scoring in the league and CL)
This Aguero is apparently the greatest foreign player in premier league history

Forgive me if I do not subscribe to the propaganda efforts of the British media and their "experts" who are paid to contradict themselves every 2 days (not as bad as ESPN but still)

 

Concerning the above... I mean, I think that Mohamed Salah has been better than Ronaldo for two consecutive seasons now. For example, Salah vs. Barca this week was better than Ronaldo ever has been vs. Barca at any point in the past 5 years; also better than Ronaldo ever was vs. Barca at any point between 2008 and 2012.

 

LMFAO

Forget about 4-8 year time spans
Ronaldo did more in 5 mins flat

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...ree-vs-barcelona-el-clasico-a7892751.html?amp

 

In 2013 Ronaldo found himself in 3rd place in La Liga for most of the 2013 calendar year, he was directly outclassed by Lewandowski in the group stage and again in the semi finals of the Champions League, and he won nothing at all in 2013, and he won the Ballon d'Or 2013.

In 2016 Ronaldo won the Ballon d'Or literally because he scored 3 goals in 2 games vs. Wolfsburg; take away the Wolfsburg game and Ronaldo's Euro was nowhere near good enough to win him the Ballon d'Or.

Modric 2018 is basically Ronaldo 2016, except Modric 2018 was not only better at the World Cup (than Ronaldo was at Euro 2016), but additionally Modric was also arguably an improvement over what Ronaldo did at the Champions League KO Stage 2016. In simpler terms: I think that Modric 2018 was better at both of the things that won Ronaldo the 2016 Ballon d'Or, so I just don't see the outrage here?

There is just no particular consistency to the Ballon d'Or, that is, the things that appear to matter change from year to year, which is why Luka Modric 2018 can win the Ballon d'Or on the basis of arguments no more fallacious than Ronaldo 2013, for example.

As another example, Zidane 2006 finished in 5th place, and Zidane didn't even played for half of the 2006 calendar year... Moreover, what Zidane did in 2006 is similar to what Modric did in 2018; one impressive performance by Zidane versus a dysfunctional Brazil team that contained the highly rated Ronaldinho; meanwhile, one impressive performance by Modric versus a dysfunctional Argentina side that contained the highly rated Messi... Now if Zidane 2006 wins the Champions League (not Ronaldinho), and Zidane also plays the second half of 2006 at a decent level, and the iconic defender Cannavaro does not win the World Cup (but rather a team without a definitive star - like Germany 2014 - wins the World Cup); if all of that had happened Zidane 2006 could've easily won the Ballon d'Or.

With the above in mind, Ronaldo 2018 was very unimpressive in La Liga (he blew countless clear-cut chances, and Messi blew him away, and Real Madrid finished 14 points behind Barcelona), his only good game in the Champions League was against a depleted Juventus side (and he still blew a tap in from point-blank range), and he was mediocre as hell vs. Uruguay in the only KO game that he played at World Cup 2018; I mean, this is just not a solid Ballon d'Or argument, not in 2018, not in any year, and especially not in a World Cup year.

So again, I think that Modric 2018 consistently fits the inconsistent criteria that wins you the Ballon d'Or.

With all due respect, I think you are basically drinking the kool-aid that is Ronaldo's propaganda machine. Several players not Messi have been better than him across the years. The Messi v Ronaldo rivalry is basically the same thing that you would get if, say, prime Cruyff v prime Kempes were time-warped to the present time, Cruyff would clearly be the superior player, but there is a lot money to be made if the media can find the way of inflating Kempes's statistics and titles.

 

I somewhat sympathize with you as a passionate fan of this sport, but honestly, your understanding of football is mediocre at best. You are basically a hipster trying to sound knowledgeable about a subject that you clearly fail to understand even at a basic level.

1. The Supercopa is a glorified pre-season friendly and in no way can be compared to a Champions League Semi Final. Not only that, but Ronaldo is much better at the Supercopa Clasico than he is at the La Liga Clasico, and why??

Well because his performances vs. Barcelona are on average comprehensively better in the Supercopa pre-season friendly, because he is fitter than players who actually take a break and enjoy their free time, which is not surprisingly why said pre-season greatness is not a factor in the La Liga Clasico, because all the players are generally close to full match fitness for the La Liga Clasico, not for the Supercopa Clasico.

Ronaldo's obsessive compulsive dedication for fitness makes him significantly fitter for pre-season friendlies such as the Supercopa; this is in effect a type of "fitness edge" that is unique to Ronaldo... but this "fitness edge" erodes away in the La Liga Clasico where all the players are relatively fully fit, which is precisely why Ronaldo gets lesser statistics in the La Liga Clasico than players like Suarez or Benzema have with far less service.

2. Ronaldo's only true 'great' performance vs. Barcelona was the 2013 Copa del Rey Semi Finals Second Leg, where Barcelona was playing against a significant physical disadvantage; Real Madrid enjoyed - by a significant margin - more rest in the lead up to that game; as is also the case with Ronaldo in the Supercopa, he simply plays a lot better when he enjoys a physical edge, be that his fitness obsession that allows him to stay uniquely match fit even for pre-season friendly games, or his rest for the Copa del Rey 2013, or his not showing up in La Liga in 2016 and 2017 and 2018, etc. Rest is nothing short of amazing for Ronaldo during the season and also during the pre-season; his best performances are almost exclusively assisted by Ronaldo enjoying some form of unique physical edge.

And full analysis for your consideration: ​

Ronaldo's performance in the second leg of the Copa del Rey Semi Finals (2013), which is widely regarded as Ronaldo's most impressive game in the whole of the 2013 calendar year; that specific game, was arguably assisted by random favorable timing.​

Real Madrid played games in February 9 (La Liga), February 13 (Champions League Round of 16 First Leg), February 17 (La Liga), February 23 (La Liga), and February 26 (Copa del Rey Semi Finals Second Leg). In between said games, Real Madrid enjoyed 3 days of rest, 3 days of rest, 5 days of rest, and 2 days of rest; getting rid of the difficult Champions League Round of 16 (the first leg at least) a good 13 days before they played the second leg of the Copa del Rey Semi Finals vs. Barcelona (2013).​

Barcelona played games in February 10 (La Liga), February 16 (La Liga), February 20 (Champions League Round of 16 First Leg), February 23 (La Liga), and February 26 (Copa del Rey Semi Finals Second Leg). In between said games, Barcelona enjoyed 5 days of rest, 3 days of rest, 2 days of rest, and 2 days of rest; having played the difficult Champions League Round of 16 fixture (mind you, a 0-2 defeat for Barcelona) only 5 days before they played the second leg of the Copa del Rey Semi Finals vs. Real Madrid (2013).​

High profile dates in quick succession for Barcelona; a 0-2 defeat in the Round of 16 vs. AC Milan (February 20); quickly followed by a 1-3 defeat in the Copa del Rey Semi Finals vs. Real Madrid (February 26)... In both games Barcelona was beaten by 2 goals of difference, and AC Milan did it without Cristiano Ronaldo. (Bayern Munich also did it without Ronaldo, and by a difference of far more than just 2 goals.) ​

For some reason, the 1-1 draw that was the first leg of the Copa del Rey Real Madrid v Barcelona Semi Finals (2013); the first leg was played in January 30, and then the second leg was played in February 26, which is not normal at all, in fact I cannot remember another such instance where the first leg was played 26 days before the second leg was played; that is, normally the Copa del Rey Semi Finals are played quickly, with only 6 days - not 26 days - between them. ​

For example, in 2011, Barcelona played the first leg in January 26, the second leg in February 2; in 2014, Real Madrid played the first leg in February 5, the second leg in February 11; in 2013, Real Madrid played the first leg in January 30, and the second leg in February 26. I mean as far as I know, the 2013 Copa del Rey Real Madrid v Barcelona Semi Finals, are the only semi finals - in the whole history of the Copa del Rey - that are divided by a 26 day pause/holiday between the first leg and the second leg. At any rate, the pause worked against Barcelona, forcing Barcelona into playing 2 high profile dates only 5 days apart, and the defeat vs. AC Milan helped make matters worse as the mentality came down and the pressure intensified.​

At any rate, you'd need to suffer from some form of tunnel-vision not to realize that Cristiano Ronaldo's greatest performances are almost exclusively assisted by unique physical advantages, which explains why Ronaldo is nothing special at all in terms of the La Liga Clasico; his Champions League form was a lot better precisely after Ronaldo's role became less physically demanding, and precisely after Ronaldo was no longer a consistent beast in La Liga, allowing him to remain fresh for the Champions League KO Stage. His greatest talent is his freakish physicality; this is a talent that erodes - significantly erodes - when Ronaldo does not enjoy some form of extraordinary advantage that allows him the rest that is required in order to pick and chose the select games where he puts his physique to full use.

3. Mohamed Salah vs. Barcelona 2019 was comprehensively better than almost all of Ronaldo's performances vs. Barcelona; and Salah - unlike Ronaldo - did it in the Champions League Semi Finals (not in glorified pre-season friendly cups that nobody cares about), and with the additional significant disadvantage of enjoying less rest than all of the key players for Barcelona; Barca players were rested because La Liga was in the bag.

 

https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...istics/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2012-2013
Apparently although not surprisingly you are wrong
Says here he
Scored more
Created more
Dribbled more

Modric 18 in la liga is comparable to a guy who scored 35 league goals+a dozen assists (2016 CR)


You must be trolling if you think 1 Performance is the Reason he won the ballon dor
It was a combination of factors
Ie being one of the top league performers in the world
Being very arguably the best CL player
And making euro 16 Team of the tournament


Modric wasn't even a top 20 performer in la liga last season (let alone Europe)

False equivalence

Zidane was at his worse in 05/06 and his worse is still considerably better than Modric at his worse
9 goals+10 assists in 38 games
Modric scored 2 goals+8 assists in 43 games and on a team that scored significantly more

Your analogy is barking mad
Why would Zidane at his worst who is better than modric 18 anyways need to have a good second half of the calendar year when modric had an abysmal second half of the year


Modric was arguably the worst performer out of a very bad bunch in the first half of 18/19
Zidanes worst form was actually in the first half of 05/06
he picked up( a bit)in the business half of the season and was statistically one of Madrid most productive players
Modric was no way near to being that

IT is one thing for brazilian fans like celito or tropiero to cry that Brazil 06 was overrated or dysfunctional
It is a totally different thing to call it a fact when they were one of the tournament favourites with a prime adriano,prime kaka, ballon dor Ronaldinho and a wealth in experience with the "old guard"
This was better than the old washed up 86 Brazil team that got beat also by France

Another bizarre analogy
At least we have moved from CR was comparable to Drogba to now Mario kempes

 

Salah 17/18 is underrated in fact, not overrated.
The Egyptian had 10NP Goals + 5 Assists in 929 minutes in the Champions League + 31NP Goals + 10 Assists in 2954 minutes in the Premier League (Transfermarkt). One Non Penalty Goal or assist each 69,3 minutes.

It is more than 17/18 Cristiano Ronaldo, where the Portuguese had 37NP Goals + 8 Assists in 3467 minutes in the CL and La Liga. One Non Penalty Goal or assists each 77 minutes.

Madrid was a more high scoring team in the season than Liverpool by little margin tho (2,45 x 2,41).

I think Salah had advantage in dribbles as well.

 

Goalimpact

Cristiano Ronaldo 2017/2018
Champions League: 6.45
La Liga: 6.71
https://goalpoint.pt/mundial-2018-grupo-b-contra-os-espanhois-marchar_59188

Salah 2017/2018
Champions League: 7.52
Premier League: 6.69
https://goalpoint.pt/mundial-2018-grupo-a_59170/2

https://goalpoint.pt/o-onze-goalpoint-ratings-da-champions-league-17-18_59063

 

Yeah, Modric 18 was comparable to Ronaldo 16 if you stop and actually try to understand what statistics actually contribute to in the league format, which especially applies when comparing Modric - a low scoring midfielder - against Ronaldo - the greatest stat padder of all time -.

Let's take a closer look at the statistics that Ronaldo scored in the 2015/16 La Liga... Oh and, do note: Paragraphs in bold are the games that were not won on the basis of blow out results, please try to take note of how Ronaldo's name is shockingly absent or shockingly average in the vast majority of the paragraphs in bold.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ronaldo 4 open play goals (1-0 goal, 3-0 goal, 5-0 goal, and 6-0 goal) and 1 penalty kick goal (2-0 goal) and 1 assist (4-0 goal) in blow out 6-0 win vs. Espanyol (away game). Clearly the mighty 13th place Espanyol would've made things difficult for Real Madrid if not for Ronaldo's devastating production after having been involved in 6 out of 6 goals. Simply amazing. Coming big in the big games. Legend. By the way: Espanyol finished in 13th place... just saying.

Benzema 1 open play goal (1-0 goal) in 1-0 win vs. Granada (home game) / goal not assisted by Ronaldo.

Isco 1 assist (1-0) goal in 1-0 win vs. Granada (home game).

Benzema 2 open play goals (1-0 goal and 2-1 goal) in 2-1 win vs. Athletic Bilbao (away game) / zero assists by Ronaldo.

Isco 1 assist (2-1 goal) in 2-1 win vs. Athletic Bilbao (away game).

Benzema 1 open play goal (1-0 goal) in 1-1 draw vs. Atletico Madrid (away game) / goal not assisted by Ronaldo.

Ronaldo 1 open play goal (2-0 goal) and 1 assist (1-0 goal) in blow out 3-0 win vs. Levante (home game). Ronaldo again involved in 2 out of 3 goals... Surely Real Madrid would not win 3-0 without Ronaldo, playing at home vs. 20th place (literally the bottom of the table) Levante.

Ronaldo 1 open play goal (1-0 goal) in 3-1 win vs. Celta Vigo (away game).

Marcelo 1 open play goal (3-1 goal) in 3-1 win vs. Celta Vigo (away game).

Ronaldo 1 open play goal (2-0 goal) in 3-1 win vs. Las Palmas (home game).

Isco 1 open play goal (1-0 goal) in 3-1 win vs. Las Palmas (home game).

Marcelo 1 assist (2-0 goal) in 3-1 win vs. Las Palmas (home game).

Ronaldo 0 statistics in 0-4 defeat vs. Barcelona (home game).

Ronaldo 1 penalty kick goal (2-0 goal) in 2-0 win vs. Eibar (away game).

Ronaldo 1 open play goal (4-0 goal) and 1 assist (3-0 goal) in blow out 4-1 win vs. Getafe (home game). Pointless stat-padding against the 19th place team. And again, to be clear, I'm not necessarily saying that Ronaldo shouldn't do this, but what I'm saying is that I hardly see how this makes Ronaldo a better or more valuable league player than Modric. Scoring a gazillion statistics in games like this does not win you league titles; it might win you the Ballon d'Or like Ronaldo did in 2013, but it will rarely ever win you a league title.

Ronaldo 1 penalty kick goal (3-2 goal) and 1 open play goal (6-2 goal) and 1 assist (7-2 goal) in 10-2 blow out win vs. Rayo Vallecano, the third worst placed team in La Liga 2015/16. Pointless stat-padders as was Ronaldo's bread and butter in his time in La Liga.

Ronaldo 1 penalty kick goal (1-0 goal) and 1 open play goal (2-1 goal) in 3-1 win vs. Real Sociedad (home game).

Marcelo 1 assist (2-1 goal) in 3-1 win vs. Real Sociedad (home game).

Benzema 1 open play goal (1-0 goal) in 2-2 draw vs. Valencia (away game) / goal assisted by Ronaldo.

Ronaldo 1 assist (1-0 goal) in 2-2 draw vs. Valencia (away game).

Bale 1 open play goal (2-1 goal) in 2-2 draw vs. Valencia (away game) / goal not assisted by Ronaldo.

Ronaldo 2 assists (3-0 goal and 5-0 goal) in blow out 5-0 win vs. Deportivo Coruna (home game), a relegation-zone club throughout the season. More pointless statistics scored against peasant-clubs.

Ronaldo 2 open play goals (2-0 goal and 4-0 goal) in blow out 5-1 win vs. Sporting Gijon (home game), another relegation-zone club that barely escaped relegation having finished in 7th place, just one place above relegation. More pointless statistics scored against peasant-clubs.

Benzema 1 goal (1-1 goal) in 1-1 draw vs. Real Betis (away game) / goal not assisted by Ronaldo.

Ronaldo 1 penalty kick goal (2-0 goal) and 2 open play goals (4-0 goal and 5-0 goal) in blow out 6-0 win vs. Espanyol (home game).

Benzema 1 goal (1-0 goal) in 2-1 win vs. Granada (away game) / goal not assisted by Ronaldo.

Modric 1 goal (2-1 goal) in 2-1 win vs. Granada (away game) / goal not assisted by Ronaldo.

Ronaldo 2 open play goals (1-0 goal and 4-1 goal) and 1 assist (3-1 goal) in blow out 4-2 win vs. Athletic Bilbao (home game) / Benzema assisted one of the goals by Ronaldo, and Athletic Bilbao scored the 2-4 goal in minute 90 of the game, helping mask the fact that it was, in reality, an easy blow out win where Ronaldo (like clock-work) did what he does best, which is to score gazillion of statistics in easy blow out wins.

Ronaldo open play goal (1-0 goal) in 1-1 draw vs. Malaga (away game) / Ronaldo failed to score a penalty kick in minute 36 of the game... This was a crucial penalty kick for a number of reasons, the first and most obvious reason is that the penalty kick would've obviously given 3 points (instead of just 1 point) to Real Madrid, playing in a notoriously difficult stadium; but the less obvious reason is that Barcelona won La Liga by 1 point only, so in the grand scheme of things if Ronaldo scores that penalty kick, Real Madrid wins La Liga by 2 points.

Ronaldo 0 statistics in 0-1 defeat vs. Atletico Madrid (home game).

Ronaldo 1 penalty kick goal (1-0 goal) and 1 assist (3-1 goal) in a relatively easy 3-1 win vs. 20th place Levante (away game).

Ronaldo 3 open play goals (2-0 goal, 4-1 goal, and 5-1 goal) and 1 free kick goal (3-0 goal) in blow out 7-1 win vs. Celta Vigo (home game).

Ronaldo 1 open play goal (2-0 goal) in blow out 4-0 win vs. Sevilla (home game).

Benzema 1 open play goal (1-1 goal) in 2-1 win vs. Barcelona (away game) / goal not assisted by Ronaldo.

Ronaldo 1 open play goal (2-1 goal) in 2-1 win vs. Barcelona (away game).

Bale 1 assist (2-1 goal) in 2-1 win vs. Barcelona (away game).

Ronaldo 1 open play goal (3-0 goal) and 2 assists (2-0 goal and 4-0 goal) in blow out 4-0 win vs. Eibar (home game). Ronaldo involved in 3 out of 4 goals; absolute legend... Clearly Real Madrid would never get such a result without Ronaldo's stat-padding in full effect.

Ronaldo 1 open play goal (5-1 goal) in blow out 5-1 win vs. Getafe (away game), the 19th place team in La Liga 2015/16.

Benzema 1 open play goal (1-0 goal) and 1 assist (2-0 goal) in 3-0 win vs. Villarreal (home game). Benzema involved in 2 out of 3 goals, and he at least does it against 4th place Villarreal, not against the 20th place Levante, the 19th place Getafe, the 13th place Espanyol, the 14th place Eibar, etc.

Bale 2 open play goals (1-2 goal and 3-2 goal) in 3-2 win vs. Rayo Vallecano (away game) / Ronaldo did not played the game.

Bale 1 open play goal (1-0 goal) in 1-0 win vs. Real Sociedad (away game) / Ronaldo did not play the game.

Ronaldo 2 open play goals (1-0 goal and 3-1 goal) in 3-2 win vs. Valencia (home game) / with or without Ronaldo, Real Madrid won by one goal only, same as the other two previous games.

Benzema 1 open play goal (2-0 goal) in 3-2 win vs. Valencia (home game) / goal not assisted by Ronaldo.

Marcelo 1 assist (1-0 goal) in 3-2 win vs. Valencia (home game).

Ronaldo 2 open play goals (1-0 goal and 2-0 goal) in 2-0 win vs. Deportivo Coruna (away game) / Benzema assisted one of Ronaldo's goals.

Benzema 1 assist (1-0 goal) in 2-0 win vs. Deportivo Coruna (away game).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the games that were not blow out wins, the production is the following:

Benzema 10 open play goals and 2 assists / involved in 12 goals.

Ronaldo 9 open play goals and 2 assists / involved in 11 goals / involved in 14 goals with the penalty kick goals / failed to score the penalty kick that would've decided the title.

Question: Why is Benzema in all those games in bold?? Probably for the same reason that Benzema is absent in the easy blow out wins, which is probably the same exact reason why Benzema is better than Ronaldo is at the La Liga Clasico; that is, a difficult game where Real Madrid cannot afford to - in the truer sense - artificially aim 99.9% of their service exclusively at/for Ronaldo, which is why Benzema scores at a much higher rate in the difficult games than in the easy blow out wins where Real Madrid goes out of their way to inflate Ronaldo's stat-padding galore. This is why Luis Suarez scores open play statistics in the La Liga Clasico, at a greater rate than Cristiano Ronaldo. The same is true for Benzema's La Liga Clasico statistics (which repeats itself in the difficult games not won on the basis of blow out wins).

And by extension, the above premise is precisely why Juventus 2017/18 - without Ronaldo - did better across all competitions, Serie A, Coppa, and Champions League... Because artificial inflation (only when you can, that is, in blow out wins by and large) does not actually make a team better in any format, and especially not in the league format (winning only 2 out of 9 titles when you have Ronaldo's statistics, can only happen if you score the vast majority of said statistics in pointless blow out wins), and perhaps worst of all, is the possibility that giving Ronaldo that much tactical, statistical, and political control over the team might actually make the team worse across all formats, as was very much the case with Juventus 2018/19.

So again, why is it that you think that I should rate Ronaldo 16 as a much better La Liga player than Modric 18?? If anything, at least Modric 18 was better at the Champions League, at least Modric 18 was much better at the World Cup (than Ronaldo was at Euro 16), etc. Do you honestly think that Ronaldo's mediocre penalty conversion in La Liga 2015/16 costing Real Madrid the title... Do you honestly think that that should somehow inflate Ronaldo 16 into a loftier position above Modric 16?? At any rate, you make no sense in my opinion, if that's what you propose I should agree to.

You have misrepresented the entire complexion of my statement, as usual. Does your dishonesty know no limits?? It's nothing short of embarrassing that you continue to think that people take you seriously when you continually make up fallacious arguments (where you deliberately misrepresent your opponent) all the time.

My point was explicitly simple: Lewandowski scored 1 goal and 1 assist in 2 games vs. Real Madrid. Ronaldo scored 1 goal and 0 assists in 2 games vs. Borussia Dortmund. Additionally, Lewandowski received better grades than Ronaldo did. "Ronaldo was directly outclassed by Lewandowski in the group stage." That was the explicitly obvious extension of my statement, that Ronaldo was outclassed by Lewandowski in direct games.

Of course, it does not surprise me that you took my comment and decided to apply the logic to the whole of the group stage, where Ronaldo will probably be superior to any player ever, because that is the one thing that Ronaldo arguably is the GOAT at... Ronaldo is arguably the GOAT in terms of scoring misleading or inflated statistics in games that do not really matter, against a cluster of vastly inferior opponents.

Lewandowski played better in direct games vs. Ronaldo. On the other hand, Ronaldo played better against the lesser opponents, which is Ronaldo's bread and butter. Personally, I will keep the player who scores 4 goals vs. Real Madrid, that is, Lewandowski.

Keep counting those statistics though.

 

The only "barking mad" thing here is that you completely fail to understand that Zidane dosn't offer anywhere near the defensive coverage that Modric - even at his supposed worst - offers. That is precisely and largely why Modric scores less goals and assists than Zidane; essentially also why Modric wins 3 consecutive Champions League titles (the final one getting him recognized as the best player of the competition).

Modric 2018 was the official Champions League player.

Modric 2018 was the official World Cup player.

Modric 2018 was nowhere near as bad in La Liga as you're desperately trying to allude to here.

Modric 2018 has much better arguments than Zidane 2006, and honestly, how freakishly dumb does a person need to be to not see that??

What does Zidane 2006 have??

Just one game against a DEMONSTRABLY dysfunctional Brazil team, with fat Ronaldo canceling out both of Ronaldinho and Kaka (but especially Ronaldinho who requires hard working strikers, not lazy prima donna strikers who are there purely because of their name).

Zidane being almost mediocre in the 2005 half of a league title that was won in 2006, is in fact relevant to the 2006 Ballon d'Or, because that is how you fail to win 2006 titles, by being bad in the 2005 half of a title that is won in 2006. How is this in any way difficult for you to understand??

In simpler terms: Zidane was definitely not one of the star players of La Liga 2005/06, and it makes no difference at all that he was better in the 2006 portion of it when the 2005 portion of it already had already destroyed his chances to win the title. Zidane was not good in the 2005/06 La Liga, literally played his last competitive game ever in July 9 2006 (which means that he literally did not play the other 6 months of 2006), and was mediocre at the World Cup group stage, so you are literally looking at one game vs. Brazil as his only legitimate argument for finishing in 5th place in the Ballon d'Or metric.

Modric 2018 has much better arguments, and no amount of absurd revisionism will change that fact.

I am not Brazilian and I am also not a fan of Brazil, and I still think that Brazil 2006 was an absurd team, a dysfunctional team; for example, when Roberto Carlos was literally tying his shoe laces when Thierry Henry almost easily slotted away a relatively easy point-blank range tap in (or if not exactly a tap in in your learned opinion, then definitely by any definition possible a very clear-cut chance from point-blank range); that is as dysfunctional as tactics can get. If Brazil or any other national team is THAT shockingly mediocre at defending set pieces; then I'm sorry but that is plainly dysfunctional... If your left back cannot defend his man (Henry) due to tying his shoe laces when Zidane takes the free kick...

Can you mention me any other such instance, where a high profile goal scorer such as Thierry Henry was left completely free from point-blank range, because a high profile defender such as Roberto Carlos decided to tighten his shoe laces at the same exact time/moment wherein Zidane released the free kick that assisted Henry's goal??

"Oh well, Roberto Carlos was fully occupied tying his shoe laces instead of defending his man, and as such Thierry Henry found himself absolutely free from mark inside of the box."

The reason why Henry would never score that goal against Brazil 86 is simple: man marking was the norm in 1986, which means that - if not Roberto Carlos - then certainly some other defender not tying his shoe laces would've man marked the most dangerous goal scorer of the opposition. It's difficult if not impossible, to explain away such a bizarre defensive lack of organization, if not on the basis of what was clear to all: Brazil was dysfunctional, even if it had amazing players on paper.

Which brings me to the most obvious tactical problem with Brazil 2006: fat Ronaldo canceling out both of Ronaldinho and Kaka, but especially Ronaldinho who requires hard working strikers, not lazy prima donna strikers who are there purely because of their name. Brazil 2006 made no sense on paper, and what made no sense "on paper" also made even less sense in reality, it was an utterly dysfunctional mess, which is - rather obviously - why Zidane was nowhere near as successful against any of the other teams. This is plain to see on video, and at the same time, plain to understand on paper... and I absolutely struggle to find the reasons that could excuse your rather pathetic denial of said self-evident reality.

With the above in mind, I think you have a certain habit of overrating basically all European players (minus Zlatan and Iniesta it seems), and a certain habit of shitting on Ronaldinho and Romario at every given turn... I mean, honestly, there's something that just rubs me the wrong way about your (hidden in plain sight, but still there for me to see) anti-Brazil rhetoric, and I'm not even a Brazil fan. There's a palpable long term bias against Brazilian players who don't fit your rigid European criteria; Zico is great; Ronaldinho is just an overrated Cantona. The same defined narrative continues for 4 years and counting as of this date. At any rate, I guess you will be very successful in your desire to continue to delude yourself that Zidane humiliated a very strong and equally organized Brazil 2006 team, in the process exposing the overrated Ronaldinho. (Something tells me that your opinion would be fundamentally opposite if, say, Zidane was Brazilian.)

Another bigoted misrepresentation of plainly stated statements. At any rate, I shouldn't need to explain to you that being "comparable" and being "equal" are fundamentally different premises.

For example, Drogba was in his prime extremely comparable to Ronaldo at any point after 2015.

On the other hand, Ronaldo was never an equal to Messi, and I mean never... more or less to the same extent that Kempes at no point in his career would've been an equal to Cruyff.

 

You accuse me of being a hipster (urban?) trying to sound knowledge while being clueless about basic concepts

The irony
Anybody with even the most basic knowledge of Spanish football knows the super copa espana isn't a pre season or friendly match

Are goals scored there Worth less than goals scored in KO matches or league encounters
Most probably

Salah never scored but in fact missed a complete sitter

Your entire argument is built on a entirely false premise

Widely considered by whom?
If something is widely considered to be than you can at least present 1 source to that affect

May I remind you that you like me are a student of the game not an authority
Conclusive statements need backing especially if you are claiming this is CR at his best

The wider populous whom you consider to be illiterate fans consider his performance vs Sweden to be his best of 2013
Statistically and in terms of importance it was arguably his very best in 2013
A winner takes all match to qualify your country for the world is definitely more important than a SF of a copa del rey and any league encounter for that matter

His la liga campaign was legendary arguably his last at that kind of all round effective level as a supreme hybrid winger


It is why any notion that a Totti,suarez,karim benzema ever sniffed this kind of level is a complete and utter joke

Watch his performance in the 2011 Copa dey final of against the best club team in their absolute prime

And then come back and say Salah who choked was even remotely comparable(even against a severely insignificant version of Barcelona)

I think you need to stop coming online drunk and start drinking some of that kool-aid you recommended to bocafan

 

Simple question:
When was r Carlos ever considered to be a great defensive fullback?
Guy was always a liability defensively and was renowned as cafu for bombing forward and actually revolutionising their role (arguably)

He isnt the first nor the last to be caught napping on a set piece
It was a defensive error of which he made many on his career anyways

86 Brazil was a washed up team with all their star players from 4 years previous completely past their prime (go listen to what socrates has to say about it on football's greatest who knows more than brazilian football history than Spanish leadleader who resides in America)

RIgid European criteria

Is zico European?
Did he play his prime in Europe?
Do I have a problem with ranking him as one of the most talented players ever (more than Cristiano even)and one of the best AMs ever?

Stop crying because I don't think dinho who was outplayed by frank lampard for vast periods of his very short prime is overrated
Who was beaten to domestic awards in his prime by riquelme (officialy I might add)
Bearing in mind. riquelme is lucky to make top 150 players ever and lampard lucky to make top 250 ever

Which is why dinho would stand 0% in a stacked era as this or the 1990-1995 era or even the 96-98 era which was stacked with all time defensive and offensive players


Not as 2004-2006
With del Piero past his prime
Rivaldo past his prime
Beckham past his prime
Raul past his prime
Figo past his prime
Van nistelrooy past his prime
Zidane past his prime
Ronaldo past his prime
Rui Costa past his prime
Shevchenko past his prime could still win a ballon dor in this very poor transitional period

You persist with this terrible analogy
Kempes did not compete against Cruyff in his prime simply because he was 7 years younger
Kempes wasn't positionally, technically or statistically Similar to CR in anyway Shape or form

The Gerd muller-Cruyff analogy although also terrible is at least better than this

 

Some of football's biggest names react to the phenomenal Lionel Messi. pic.twitter.com/rH9eb6A6Cl

— Al Foran (@ImpressionistAL) May 1, 2019