For example, we can see even here in some topics from 2005 and 2006 that the vast majority of posters put Messi, Ronaldo along with guys like Robinho and Rooney as the best talent of that generation with often Rooney in front of them, that is, even here it wasn't clear that Cristiano Ronaldo - and Messi - was ahead of Robinho and Rooney as the best prospect of his time and this with already 21 years old. Today Mbappe has arguably the biggest hype in the world - among all players - and with 18-19 years Mbappe already had the reputation of the best SUB21 player, and for all people and media, this is unquestionable.
Just shows you don’t know what you’re talking about. Higher heights than CR7 and Messi? Lol. I don’t think you have any idea what that means. What he did or they did at the same age isn’t nearly as relevant as you think. Or did you forget, or likely not know, that it took Cristiano Ronaldo 25+ games in the Champions League to get his first goal? Ronaldinho himself had the belief, at his prime, that Messi would be the best of all time. You can look at whatever stats you like, doesn’t make a difference because Messi at that age would run circles around Mbappe. “But... but.. the World Cup”... yeah give Messi or CR7 the opportunity to play in the most talented national team and let me know how they do. CR7 was crucial at 19 to Portugal reaching their first final (Euro 2004) and at 21 was the best player on the ENTIRE FIELD against Zidane’s France in World Cup 2006 semifinals. Both Messi and Ronaldo have reached levels that only but a handful of footballers can attempt to compete with. The fact that you state that Mbappe can so readily not only compete with such legends, “but that he has everything to surpass them”... Well, I’m sure Ronaldinho would agree with me that saying such a thing is the hallmark of stupidity.
@Tropeiro you’d see how wrong you were by simply understanding that C.Ronaldo and Messi put their skills to the ultimate test by moving to huge, established clubs because they were completely unfazed by competition. Mbappe was afraid to move to Real Madrid because of playing time...Meanwhile Vinicius comes from another continent at 18 and establishes himself. Mbappe is a bitch and will not win any Champions League with PSG.
It’s more likely that Mbappe fills his room, as an adult, full of CR7 posters than it is of him surpassing him.
Then you got people like @JoCryuff98 talking about how Vinicius may surpass Pele... despite this being 1) Pele we are talking about and 2) While Vinicius playing for Real Madrid at his age is an amazing achievement... Pele at an even younger age was crucial to Brazil winning the World Cup. Vinicius is 18 and his career will likely encompass around another 18 years. ...Just some really premature and silly stuff being stated in this thread by apparent newcomers to this sport.
Messi played for a TOP1-5 NT according ELO rankings and he has been crushed (argentinians like Vegan could confirm it to you if don't believe) against all their same level opponent he faced be in the World Cup or Cup America, even in the Eliminatorias, he was never able to improve his NT and never able to won single handedly stronger NTs in his entire life in a decisive matches, period... nor when Argentina was stronger he was able to lead his team to victory. These are facts. ... and the main point here is if U20 Mbappe was better than Ronaldo or Messi at the same age and the answer is yes, he is much ahead, how much big he could be in the future no one knows, but of possibilities he has everything, from being an excellent player and a world class (which he already is) like Thierry Henry or being the greatest player since Pelé.
@benficafan3 I did exaggerate Vinicius’ talent, but he does have the potential to be a phenomenal player or possibly an all time great with the maturity and level he’s playing despite his poor finishing which will definitely improve in time.
He was a key piece to Brazil win that WC at age 17, the best and most decisive player in the Quarterfinals, Semifinal and Final.. but not only that, he established an unprecedented - and never reached after - record in the São Paulo championship (most goals in one league, 58), with only 17-18 years, leading the Santos to the conquest of the Paulista League and being voted unanimously, by more than 100 specialized local voters, as the best player of the League and of the Paulista football. To get a better perspective on this, São Paulo at that time had 13 million people (almost half of Spanish population in 1960), most of them crazy for football and a much younger age-sex pyramid. with 18 (in 1959) he was the best rated player in American Cup, top scorer of that tournament and he was the key piece for Santos winning the Rio-São Paulo tournament, even Rio de Janeiro publications put Pele above Garrincha that year, which didn't happened in 1958.
Not way ahead, but 18-19 year old Mbappe was definitely the better finisher with more maturity. Talent wise he’s nothing compared to Messi and in fact teenage CR7 was arguably his equal in other categories.
He's definitely got better performances, statistics, consistency and more hype than Messi had with 18-19 years. For example with 20 years old Cristiano Ronaldo wasn't priced as TOP10 in Transfermarkt, neither was Messi in Jun/2007, Mbappe with less than 19 years old was priced as TOP4 in nov/2017 tho.
LOL 18-19 year old Messi was already touted to be the GOAT. How tf did Mbappe have more hype when everything was served to him on silver platter? Messi’s performance against Real and Getafe surpasses anything Mbappe ever did and internationally teen Messi wasn’t bad either considering he won the U-20 WC winning the best player award iirc. Plus, Getafe wasn’t a bad team that time because Barca got rekt by them in the 2nd leg of Copa and Messi was injured.
Mbappe is the teenager with the most EC/CL goals in history. This was a record that stood for a while (P. Kluivert). Then add in what he occasionally did for France. Is he technically as great as Messi, Maradona and even Neymar? Arguably not, but his decision making and intuition is top notch.
Had teen Messi or Ronaldo been part of social media era then they would’ve been more hyped. Mbappe having higher value doesn’t mean he had more hype when both teen Messi and Ronaldo were hyped to surpass Pele, Maradona and Cruyff. I don’t necessarily think teen Ronaldo was better than teen Mbappe, but he sure was on par. One can only argue that teen Mbappe was the better finisher, but in other categories he’s not better.
He’s not even technically better than 18 year old Vinicius. Mbappe relies a lot on his pace and his ball control isn’t impressive at all. Dembele could’ve been more hyped as a player if he wasn’t lazy.
Ballon d'Or... Ronaldo 2003- not rated (almost 19 years old) 2004- 12º (almost 20 years old) Messi 2006 - 20º (19,5 years old) 2007- 3º (20,5 years old) Mbappe 2017 - 7º (19 years old) 2018- 4º (20 years old) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Ballon_d'Or
I'm not so sure this is true though. Messi never moved. He was able to establish himself by impressing the Barcelona management. He made the big step up to world-class level when the guy managing him in the B team became the manager of the first team. Moving to Man Utd is absolutely nothing like moving to Real Madrid. Real Madrid is notorious for not giving youngsters the platform to perform. Even players who have done well in other leagues go to Madrid and fall short. Man Utd under Ferguson, on the other hand, already has an established name for giving players chances. The first lot was the class of '92. Just before Ronaldo, Rooney was bought in as a 19 year old and was placed in first team. I don't think we can be too harsh on Mbappe not moving to Madrid. It was the right choice for him at that age, imo.
Well this is something, but i just dont agree. Messi was better finisher all along. Messi barely played at the time, couldnt gain consistency therefore it might seem he was worse finisher purely in terms of goals they scored till that point, but thats the flawed way to look at it. This is very tough argument to make for Messi because that they didnt have equal opportunities which goes full circle to why i am noting that in first place. All i can say as an argument for Messi is that it's veeeeeeery unlikely that in 2008 when Pep came, Messi all of a sudden became a phenomenal finisher. He didnt do any extra reps that summer. Whats the most likely scenario is that he was opressed before Guardiola joined Barca so thats the reason why his goalscoring tally exploded eventually. In few months, going from a poor finisher to, perhaps, the best in the world finisher, is very unlikely. He had it in him as a teen, but not much opportunities to show it (but more opportunities than some other teens. Not much compared to Mbappe). So yeah, i claim he was better finisher without evidence of multitude of big ucl goals supporting the claim. Whats much better argument is to look at Mbappe. You say he scored against plenty of big teams. True, the other day as well, except he also missed 2 big chances in the same game. He has 18 goals in ligue one in 17 games (13 starts) except also 13 big chances missed (2nd behind Falcao). In champions league, he is currently at 4 goals in 7 matches with 6 big chances missed (including two vs United). He misses a big chance for every goal he scores, thats not some crazy good shit. Thats a trend of not future greatest ever goalscorer, but rather a guy who is given all the attention and care in the world so he can fail to score without worrying about being benched the next game. Let me ask you this, what do you think how bad Mbappe has to play before he is benched at PSG? I say that almost in no scenario that happens.. money, brand. Messi's 28 apps in a season at the age of 18 cant keep up with THAT treatment. Let's break down his ucl 2017 finishing shall we: City away - 1 goal City home - 1 goal + 1 big chance missed (BCM) Dortmund away - 2 goals Dortmund home - 1 goal Juventus home - 2 BCMs Juventus away - 1 goal + 1 BCM (Sofascore source) 5 goals scored and 1 BCM against City's and Dortmund's defenses. Very imprressive.1 goal and 3 BCMs against Juventus, when it mattered more than anything.. not so much. Mbappe is an extraordinary finisher, but only for his age, in a world class sense, his finishing game is still not good enough. The reason he is scoring, but not let's say Dembele, Hudson Odoi, Alphonso or whoever is because of opportunities. You cant make an impact as a 18 year old if you dont play such games, if your club is not investing in you and giving you all the freedom in the world.
He is not better talent wise than them. He is having a greater start into his career, sure, but he wasnt better per se, especially not Messi (Ronaldo being a bit more late bloomer). Mbappe has virtually unlimited opportunities to shine whcih those didnt.
I can't speak much about Messi's finishing, but as a goalscorer, it's not actually as impossible as it sounds. A lot of people can develop very quickly into a great goal-scorer, not by becoming a better finisher, but by doing a lot of other things right, like timing of runs. Guardiola was able to improve Sterling, who was notoriously bad at finishing, to become a goal-scorer as well. It's not just about individual improvements. More than his own individual improvement, Messi was also enjoying playing in a much better team than pre-Pep.
It’s funny because Messi had greater hype than Mbappe. I don’t recall any pundits claiming Mbappe will be on Pele, Maradona or Cruyff’s level.
If 21 year old Mbappe doesn’t match 08/09 Messi or 06/07 Ronaldo’s performances then he’s definitely not gonna surpass them at all in terms of accolades or status. He’s 20 and his performance against Utd was good, but nothing special like the hype suggests. Even in WC, his only noteworthy performance was against terrible Argentina that made him instantly famous.
can you get your head out of his ass for Christ sake we know how good Pele was and jocruyff admitted to making an ill advised comment. being the best player of a state championship is no where near as prestigious as you claimed It is noteworthy ok but before you know you’d be claiming it’s equivalent to a ballon D’Or or something You love to generalise a lot especially about the Brazilian population (being so in love with football as if this wasn’t the number 1 sport of a number of countries at that time) It is not something unique to Brazil(São Paulo or any other province/city) Despite the obvious dominance you claim Pele demonstrated he still lost the golden ball to didi (I imagine it was close probably like Xavi and Messi in 2009 both arguably as influential,Messi with his goals and dribbles and Xavi with his 30 assists and general dictating of matches) in any case we’ve already covered how the WC in 58 was literally open season(a complete goal fest) His ko record is impressive but within the context of very high scoring matches And kamikaze formations just not as amazing as you insist on claiming
great point. We have to differentiate finishing from scoring goals, this indeed further complicates the comparison