Next Ballon d'Or winner that isn't CR7 or LM10 (and when)?

Can be both, but Mbappe is ahead (I only could place R9 and Pelé ahead of Kylian in all soccer history tho).

According Goalimpact both ViniJr and Rodrygo from Brazil are expected to play for a top club (in the same way Sancho, De Ligt, Jovic and Mbappe are now and in the same way Hazard, Cristiano, Henry, Messi and Neymar, Neymar more than all, were in the past)... so far (minutes per Madrid Goal/ minutes per Vini JR direct involvement in his team goals), each 2.14 Madrid goals, Vini is involved in 1 goal (forcing PK's, own goals, scoring goals and assists)... more or less the ratio of Cristiano Ronaldo (2.15 per 1) in Madrid.

So far, so good. But he is still very raw, if he improves his finish ability and stay healthy. with the right behaviour he could be a World Class player in 2-3 years... at 18 we can't said nothing tho. He could be a flop or a superstar.

PD: Taking into a account the Pelé is the clearly GOAT and is almost imposible to reach the stats, level of achivements, level of performances in finals with both Club and NT, talents, skills etc... many very very talented players have tried to reach his level of determination and clutchness, to this day no one has reached that level, so it is a unfair expectation for every players be compared to King Pelé.

 

Oh gosh you took the bait and went one further
How you could ever draw an equivalence between Barcelona and those are teams is beyond me
Porto won the champions league thanks to some lucky draws
Even so their best player was deco and he joined Barcelona

Barcelona was the best team in the world and did have many of the best rated players in the world at that time(I’ve listed some and you can check their ratings on dbs calcio 2005/06 and the ballon dor)
Btw they did not just win the champions league(there was the league titles and Barcelona was in fact ranked the number 1 team in the world and distinction not shared by Chelsea 11/12)

Could they go toe to toe with some of the superclubs today maybe or maybe not but that is irrelevant because they were a great side within the context of their own time

As for mbappe his athletic qualities and improved finishing give me every reason to believe he would succeed anywhere(a top league or farmers league)
His output as of yet is staggering(all this talk of luck is insane the guy is 20 and he isn’t exactly a poacher)
He plays wide and has racked up
a tonne of assists in The league,champions league,for the NT

I never understood the doubters And detractors when it came to mbappe
There is literally no stage he hasnt proven himself on.

 

At 20 years old mbappe cannot clean the boots of El pibe de oro
The best maradona is the one in Argentina (first stint and before he started experimenting with the devils dandruff)
he was doing stuff on the pitch that haven’t been seen before or after between 79-81

There is also the real
Possibility that ligue 1 in its current dire state isn’t objectively worse than the Argentine primera division of the 70s and 80s
In that case even maradonas raw stats are better(40+ goals in a single season as a SS)
If that wasn’t enough at 20 years old he beat prime zico to the South American player of the year award

 

A very interesting opinion you have ..

 

To start with Argentine League was never as depth as the Brazilian league in terms of talent and competitive teams and they lost their better players way before than the Brazilian league/competitions, on other hand, Zico was playing with the best or most of the Brazilian players in Brazil in that time (70-early 80), Falcao, Cerezo, Careca, Junior, Socrates, Roberto Dinamite, Figueroa, Rivellino etc.

That's one of the reason that Maradona never looked so dominant and consistent and he never put out the same numbers in Europe at his prime, Argentine Primera Division was incredible shit already at the end of 70. Its outrageous the comparasion between the current French league with the 70s Argentinian league. The Argentine league of the 70s is of the same level or almost of the same level to the current Primeira Division perhaps, that is, worse or the same level than the Portuguese or Dutch league.

South American Player of the Year award is hilarious and very hispanic-american oriented (argentinian oriented as they more known in Latin American) and most of voters did not even know the color of their underwears. Maradona was voted by hype. He won nothing in Argentina, nothing important in 1979 or 1980, no one important match, no one decent match, his goal average and overall level went down when he faced stronger international teams... he won in 1979 mostly because the U20 World Cup and because the Argentinian League was televised in some Hispanic American countries. Argentina was still seen as reference in Latin American at that time, still is for most South American countries, Brazil a bit less but still.

Without going any further, Neymar's career in South America was much better than that of Maradona in Argentina, let alone others, Zico and Mbappe could rule out that Argentinian League, without preservative. Argentinian League was, seriously, at the Campeonato Carioca level, no more, no less.

 

I really doubt you have any reading comprehension. It's like you are immune to understanding a point the way it was intended to be understood..

I am not doubting his abilities. It's a mere observation that Mbappe, a future number 1 marketing star, among other things, so far, have had an absolute freedom to show his talent. In comparison, look at one year older Dembele and the things he had to deal with already in his career, while being in no way, shape or form worse than Kylian, perhaps even better with, imo, higher potential. Few of those things are: playing for Rennes rather than Monaco's golden year/s, Dortmund treatment prior to Barcelona transfer, 2 already significant injuries in Barca, oppression by Deschamp's conservative approach to football, fighting against Valverde's conservative approach to football,.. Mbappe didnt have to deal with any of that. He had a good fortune to play for a great Monaco that didnt need him that much, he scored few goals on the big stage. Media overhypes the guy, it's novelty, new king is born? Then French's society sort of decides he is the chosen one and from then on he is treated like a snowflake on a baby's hand.

Mbappe v Dembele is very interesting topic

 

In 2016/17 Monaco were champions of France netting 107 goals. 17/18 year old Mbappe scored 15 and added 8 assists to his name. Impressive except if we subtract these 23 goals Mbappe was directly involved in, from overall tally of 107, we get 84 goals scored by Monaco in 38 matches, which is still more goals scored than any other team in the league, including, yes, PSG (83), at the time, the holders of 4 championships in the row and top scorer Cavani (35)
This is not a way to discredit Monaco's former talisman, but rather a clue in what sort of environment he played in... i could go on, with mis-matches against 30+ year old Zabaleta, Sagna, and so on. Should i continue?

 

dude you made some valid points at the very start even though they are completely unrelated to the topic at hand(mbappe)
Predictably however it then all went to shit and you destroyed your credibility when you brought Neymar into the discussion
Neymars competition for SA player of the year was Vargas and Fred
We are literally talking about the most uncompetitive period of SA football that I’m aware of

the Depths of your delusions literally know no bounds if you think Neymar was even remotely comparable to maradona
Please just Go back to your spreadsheets tropiero because I’ve had enough with you

Note
It’s pretty god damn hilarious that you claimed Figueroa was Brazilian
As a side point whenever you attempt to establish the superiority of your leagues You always mention a long list of attackers
Never have you mentioned a single great defender that zico faced in state leagues or national leagues

 

So mbappe plays for a stacked team in a underwhelming league
Stop acting like you’ve made some Major discovery
Before you went on series of diversions I’d like to bring this back to where it all started
his record in the champions league against world class opposition is why he’s being lauded as the next great thing not because he stat pads against Mickey Mouse teams at the lower end of ligue 1
he is young and it’s not expected he’ll stay at PSG going into his peak(dependent on the Neymar situation I think and if he gets bored of the lack of competition)

When/if he moves to the EPL he will do the same thing
Remember salah was a just above average player in Italy he went to the PL and look at him now
Mbappe has a higher ceiling and is in all Likelihood just as good a player so I have no doubt he’d succeed(preferably for a team like Manchester United
a forward line of mbappe/martial/rashford would give nightmares on the counter to any team)

 

Figueroa played in Brazil. Brazil was the place for top Latin American players other than Europe, including Pedro Rocha, Hugo de Leon, Romerito, Doval and many others (and still is if you analise many of the names present in Boca x River of this year).. you aren't able to find good Brazilian players in Argentina in no one period.

On the other hand, Zico and other Brazilian players were able to maintein their stats for Brazils NT while playing in Brazil and able to keep their stats and the same level of performances in the Italia Serie A for example, already at the end, past of their peak while Maradona was like a superstar in Argentina making solo goals each three matches, never able to reach the same level of performances and consistency in Europe. Maradona won the South American award playing U20s and making solo goals against Boca Junior B, Libertadores? Primeira Division? nothing. Maradona competition was against U20 oponents (Neymar made U20s players look bad, very bad in 2011), he never competed on a daily basis with the best, never won nothing important.

Neymar was much more dominant in South America context, actually won more things and was more dominant in a superior league and with the Brazilian NT (including matches against top NTs) while playing in Brazil than Maradona playing in Argentina... by a considerable distance, period.

Mbappe could make 80 goals if he wanted in that Argentinian League.

 

I agree with @Sexy Beast . mbappe has really done nothing of great substance to be considered an all time player. He has yet to have a dominating performance against any tough team. Name me one team?! In saying that EPL is overrated and has been for many years now. No question. Teams in La Liga, and Bundesliga have proven to be better than the EPL teams. And a sub par PSG team beat an EPL team that was not defeated for the last 8 or so EPL games and everyone was raving about them. But PSG played them off the park with a sub par team away from home

 

I disagree. I dont think Mbappe has a higher ceiling. As a matter of fact, between Sancho, dembele, oddoi, Mbappe offers the smallest upside. Honestly, in a congested game, how exactly is Mbappe supposed to thrive???

Sancho, dembele, vinicious, and oddoi all have close technique and good passing ability that I dont see in Mbappe. I think Mbappe would excel in England. But in environments that rely more on technique and less space, I think Mbappe struggles. Of course mbappe is a special teenager but we dont know how much room he has to grow. Dont get it confused, just because a player starts more mature doesnt mean he will reach a higher peak. CR7 was very immature at 18. Mbappe being much more mature but I doubt he will reach the heights of CR7. I am not so sure that mbappe will be better than Salah but he could be. I really think Mbappe can be a great player anywhere but really excel in england due to the oppeness of the game

 

I'll try one more time and then i will drop it, i promise you:

It's the matter of opportunities. In virtually all cases, 18, 19, 20 year olds are not given SUCH great and easy opportunity to shine on the big stage, not because they suck, but because of various other reasons outside their control.
Mbappe was fortunate enough to be given such opportunity and kudos to him, he took it with both hands scoring all those KO goals, which propelled him to the chosen one title, which then gave him even more opportunities to shine leading to the present moment. Usually, that's not the case. Usually, talented kids.have to struggle and overcome initial anonymity. Now, you can argue Mbappe did exactly that, created opportunities for himself to shine, but, no, he didnt. That's what i am arguing. He was in the right place at the right time with no credit of his own, Monaco 2016/17 with favorable ucl draw. Add to that a bit of his individual magic and voila, you have one of the most impressive starts into career ever.

Freakishly talented, but point remains that he has been lucky as hell to be able to show it so early. There were (and there will be) teens more talented than him that hadnt had such opportunities.... yes, Messi being one of them.

 

It’s frankly no different from the opportunities presented to previous greats
Eusebio joined benfica at a similar age and they won the EC in his first season(he barely even participated)
There is a teenage pele and the absurd amount of goals Santos scored in the late 50s(even without him)

Messi as a teenager had the same platform but he was too injury prone to take full advantage(despite the revisionism for me it is clear that mbappe is a much better finisher than Messi at a similar age-everything else goes to Messi except finishing)

The league position and world standing of Barcelona 2004-2006 is relevant because Messi was a bit part player of this team
(A team that was widely considered to be the best in the world)

Mbappe has taken full advantage of the opportunities given to him(you acknowledge this so at least that is good)
Despite being demonstrably more technical gifted I don’t think Messi’s end product from 2004-2006 justified his ball hogging entitlements
Messi did have to cut out some unnecessary bits before he became a bpitw contender

Mbappe is less technical but a clearly more polished and effective player at a similar age
Messi at 21 years old (2009)is a whole different animal and it will take some doing for mbappe to reach that level IMO

 

Alright, Vinicius might not surpass Pele and I did exaggerate when I stated that. But, he will at least surpass the likes of Neymar, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo etc.

 

Plus, Barca was knocked out by Getafe in the next leg when Messi was injured or something.

 

I really do not know why you doubt this, I have no doubt that if he had right now at Real Madrid he would make at least 40 goals in a season playing as RF or CF. He simply picks up lots of shots, comes in a lot of balls and is very efficient finisher, that is very efficient combo, a volume goalscorer with a lot of quality in his finishing... his numbers of 23 goals and 14 assists in 2200' without taking PKs and with an average of 4.52 shots per 90 minutes (he could reach at least 6 per90 without Cavani) is really super class. In Madrid with a lot of good providers he could maintain a similar or even better numbers than this.

Hard to say if he will reach the height of Cristiano Ronaldo because to reach CR7 he has to be in the right club at the right time and maintain a consistency level for at least 10 years, being in a big club like Real Madrid, free of injuries and with his head in the right place I see everything to surpass.

 

CR7 leading Serie A in goals and assists in his first season... at 34 years old. Pretty damn good IMO.

 

Madrid and Barcelona could score 100 goals in La Liga tho, they have money for it, to beat Huescas and Rayo Vallecanos. Madrid only need to renovate their midfielders that Modric goes to 34 and buy one or two winger-playmaker of quality that could be Hazard and Sancho for example. Like I said Mbappe playing as their main star could shot the ball at least 6 times per match, and would easily keep or even improve his numbers there, in fact the best plataform for him.

 

For the exact reason you stated. "If he was at Real Madrid"... he isn't, why? Because while the likes of CR7 move to Manchester United, a completely foreign environment, to improve, Mbappe took the easy way out. Moving to PSG was a bitch move, especially since it seems he did have the chance to move to Real Madrid. Moving to a club that is historically irrelevant in terms of European success and it is because of this irrelevance that the club finds it difficult to establish itself in Europe. That stuff doesn't happen overnight, no matter how much oil their sheiks extract. It's not only quality players in the present that get you far in these competitions, it's the established know-how of the respective clubs that are the foundation of these clubs succeeding (See Benfica, Ajax, Porto).

He is not on CR7 and Messi's level. Very talented and I'd say the best player of France's high-quality generation, but he won't reach the heights of those two. Those two at his age were playing for established mega-clubs and benefited accordingly from it. PSG isn't anywhere near the stratosphere of Manchester United and Barcelona, regardless of how much money they throw around.

 

Not to mention the added point of PSG not having any competition whatsoever domestically. So Mbappe is currently playing week in and week out, against teams that are at a huge and obvious disadvantage relative to his club. And this is the case against every team he plays in the league.

This was never the case with CR7 or Messi. Whether in the EPL or La Liga, they and their teams were competing with at least one other club for the title. Ronaldo and Messi moved far from their respective homes as young children to establish their dreams. Mbappe couldn't even do that as an adult. He's a bitch, not worthy of being discussed at those two's levels.

 

He is way ahead of Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi at the same age (and CR7 isn't on Messi's level in his level of play) in all competitions including World Cups and Champions League at the same age (18-20 years) and by a large distance. He is a top notch talent that all teams can dream about, his overall finish ability is unpair with Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi at their stages and he is simply a huge talent since a very long time (https://www.goal.com/en/news/mbappe...psg-reveals-monaco/1gcj3sze8fjpw149svpr8yo12h), he has everything to surpass Messi or Ronaldo and reach higher heights than both of them, but like I said, being in the right team, right moment and free of injuries.. Deal with it.

For example, it is not because Vinicius Junior is playing at Real Madrid with 18 years and already participating in 1 goal every 85 minutes (and 1 goal every 2-2.14 goals scored by Real Madrid, proportionally) that I will think he has some advantages over Mbappe, he hasn't, that would be hilarious.