Next Ballon d'Or winner that isn't CR7 or LM10 (and when)?

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by BocaFan, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. Bavarian14

    Bavarian14 Member

    Bayern München
    Jun 1, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Coutinho is missing easy chances in every game. I don't know what's the point of playing him anymore. He'll likely be sold at the end of this season alongside Dennis Suarez
     
  2. TitoTata

    TitoTata BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jun 26, 2014
    Na ... we can never recuperate the massive sum we paid ..

    He was looking great before the injury .. now he's not getting many chances and his confidence is low
     
  3. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Germany
    Jan 3, 2018
    Coutinho isn’t going anywhere. Trust me, he’ll make a great comeback.
     
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  4. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Maybe we should spend some time congratulating Messi scoring his 400th career league goal :whistling: :

     
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  5. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You literally couldn't escape all the hype about Messi's 400 career league goal. It was obnoxious ... :rolleyes:
     
  6. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Why not?
    I don’t think there would be a problem with congratulating a 31 year old who has scored 400 league goals(all at the highest level)

    There problem is with certain fans(not saying you-necessarily)who suffer from a inferiority complex and view every achievement by CR as some sort of attack against Lio
    I can enjoy both and prefer one without having the need to diminish the worth of the other
     
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  7. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    You missed the point .
     
  8. Bavarian14

    Bavarian14 Member

    Bayern München
    Jun 1, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Sick game against Sevilla yesterday. There was a few wrong calls by referee here and there. But overall it was nice to see Coutinho back in the score sheet. He needed the confidence. Messi as much as I admire him has been demonstrating poor finishing nowadays
     
  9. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Yeah, should've buried that chance when the game was still in doubt at 4-3 (on aggregate). But not gonna stress-out too much about him missing - I mean there were still 3 guys back defending the goal. Especially after his insane finish last weekend against Girona.
     
  10. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Statistically, he still scores above his expected goals, so he's still one of the world's supreme finisher.
     
  11. Bavarian14

    Bavarian14 Member

    Bayern München
    Jun 1, 2017
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    #6561 Bavarian14, Jan 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
    Yes his goalscoring records are off the charts. Yet he's missing easy goals against Girona, Levante, Eibar, Getafe in the last few games. What I'm trying to say is that he won't be getting so many chances to score in UCL against defensively compact teams.
     
  12. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    He’s more of a playmaker anyway. The 50 goals a year he scores is gravy.
     
  13. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    That's not true. Not only does he take more shots per game than anyone in his team, he takes more shots per game than anyone in La Liga, EPL, Bundesliga, Ligue 1, or Serie A, not named Cristiano Ronaldo.
     
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  14. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Fair point, but not taking many shots isn't a prerequisite for being the world's best playmaker.
     
  15. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Of course not. I also happen to think that he is the best playmaker in the world, but I just don't think his role is more of a playmaker than a goal/scorer. It's a pretty even mix I think, which is the right role for him considering he's probably simultaneously both one of the best playmakers and goalscorers in the world.
     
  16. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    All he needs is healthy Dembele. Barcelona's squad is stacked and after Juve, probably the most versatile team in the world. They have so many options.

    It's crazy to think that Messi is doubted for few misses. His finishing is a level(s) beyond anyone's, in terms of efficiency. It's not just me saying this, we can measure it:
    https://understat.com/player/2097

    Taking all of Messi's shots in la liga into consideration, he was expected to score 14.22 goals to date. He is crushing that tally, because he has scored 21. +6.78 more than expected. That's the highest amongst goalscorers in top 5 leagues. The second is Alcaser with +6.01 and then nobody for a looong time.

    I realize it's la liga only stat, but things wouldnt have changed much including other competition. It's mostly our bias towards Messi's ridiculous standards that thinks he is in a bad form whenever he misses a great chance. It's an essential part of the game. Griezmann, Aguero, Suarez, Lewa, even Cristiano from last 3 years, miss those on a regular basis. Misses are still very much an exception in Messi's game, which is not something that should be taken for granted, but rather celebrated.
     
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  17. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #6567 carlito86, Feb 14, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019

    He’s scored or assisted goals against Tottenham/Manchester city/Liverpool/Manchester United

    If this kid goes to the EPL he is going to destroy that league and now hopefully the English media will calm down and stop bragging about how good English teams are.
    They are a bunch of overrated and overpriced players
    As of now only salah has shown his worth in the CL while others like aguero/hazard/Sanchez have yet to make their mark(and they are in their late 20s)
     
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  18. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Mbappe had it pretty easy so far in his career
     
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  19. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Easy if we can all agree that the EPL is overrated as has been since at 2011

    Otherwise a breakdown of his goals(and assists) will show that a significant proportion have come against “difficult” sides
    (And yes a large percentage of R9s 14 CL goals came against low level teams that he was “expected” to score against
    Teams like locomotive Moscow
    Aek Athens
    Monaco were hardly contenders)

    Mbappe has a way to go to reach R9 (overall)but there is a strong case for him at only 20 years old being a greater champions league performer than the Brazilian
     
  20. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    I am not denying comparison. He might as well have already a better ucl career, i am just saying.
    There are so many factors that have allowed Mbappe to have this much impact early on. He, i think, has the easiest circumstances in start of his career compared to any 18, 19, 20 year old ever. Only real comparison in that regard is Pele, but i believe neither did he had so much attention and care given so early on.
     
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  21. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Germany
    Jan 3, 2018
    I agree with Sexy Beast, but Mbappe for sure will be more successful than Ronaldo 9, but probably will not be considered the better player. Vinicius Jr is the real deal tbh and he might even surpass Pele.
     
  22. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Why would Vinicius be the real deal?
     
  23. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    This is absurb
    Vinicius Jr cannot even finish while Pele arguably had one of his best ever years at 18-19 years old scored 126 goals including friendlies in a single year

    the overhyping of Brazilian players needs to stop
    There is no one(from Brazil at least)
    in the foreseeable future who will replicate what Pele did.
    R9 looked like he had the potential to get close but that’s as far as it got(potential)

    It took 40 years for someone to match Pele in stats and talent.
    Maradona/Cruyff were as influential (if not more)outside of goals but the records of Pele are just too significant to overlook
    There is Pele/Messi and then the rest

    Vinicius Jr can aspire to reach Neymar/kaka/Rivaldo level even though from what I’ve seen he’s not as talented(athletically yes but not technically)
     
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  24. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Did mbappe have a easier route than Messi?
    He was after all eased into a champions league winning team of dinho/deco/puyol/etoo players all ranked as the best or one of in their respective positions (a fact confirmed by dbs calcio amongst other sources)
     
  25. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Waaaaaaay easier.

    That Barcelona team was nothing special. Porto won ucl in 2004, Chelsea won in 2012, Bayer Leverkusen was in final 2002. Single ucl thropy on itself represents absolutely nothing and its not like they were dominant that campaign. How did that GREAT Barcelona generation did in 2005 and 2007 ucl, 2007 la liga, 2008?

    Messi until he turned 20 in the summer of 2007, wasnt considered a standard first team player even tho he was outperforming everyone in his team for awhile. Unfortunately, that season he struggled with injuries and had to battle with newly signed Henry for minutes. He couldnt take a break. He became undisputed first team player with a key role only after Guardiola came in 2008 when he was already a 21 year old, and what would you know, Messi exploded that season (would have exploded sooner given the chance) and the rest is history.

    All of them at the club knew Messi was a goat level talent when he was already 15 and yet Rijkaard never risked with placing him in the spotlight. He had to fight for minutes even after a hattrick vs Real, Getafe goal and many more crazy performance. But yeah he had it easy....

    On the other hand, an 18 year old, Mbappe joins newly created superteam in an awful French league (perfect for a development of an 18 year old, not too tough, not too weak), walks into an undisputed first team role with Draxler and di Maria being his competition. In a national team he gets a number 10 in like what, few months after a debut, and another undisputed first team role. They are investing in him like mad. He is a huge brand at this point and people want to exploit that.

    Dont let me started with how lucky Mbappe was to come into a first team of Monaco at the point when they were having, possibly, the greatest attacking generation of the clubs history. If he was only 2 years younger and he was currently a 17 year old in Monaco, you can forget about playing in KO champions league, let alone recording few fancy goals in KO phases.

    So many stars have aligned in Mbappes career so far. Thats not a crticism, but rather an observation.
     
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