The award tends to be given based on narrative and Ronaldo has a great chance to win some trophies. Madrid wins the CL and we will hear about the Bayern games. If Madrid loses the CL and Barca wins the league we will hear about yesterdays classico. That's how the voters operate. Whether that's unjust or not is different question.
I think Real Madrid easily outplayed and overrun the midfield when they were pro-active in the first half. There was not one free man but really two or even three free players. The defense struggled with so many runners to attacking position. The most dangerous moments of Barcelona (and Messi as well as that Iniesta pass to Suarez) came when Real Madrid was reactive and not really pressing or so. That makes it even more strange that they suddenly started to press hard at 2-2 and with a man down. I know that ko242 and such will automatically disagree but that's my observation and looking at twitter I wasn't the only one. As good as that first goal was, the RM central defense was out of position - look it back, with also Modric not his usual self - and symbolic for the entire match. Casemiro did a bad job but I feel Zidane not good as well (as does 'Zonalmarking'); with the closing stages as most obvious example. I'm still undecided whether Zidane is actually a really good manager (matching his trophy cabinet).
I don't think he is. But I also think he is forced to play Bale who's clearly out of form. They've played better with Isco. I have to question him when Bale got injured and he brought Asensio and not Isco.
You also said a couple of days ago that Messi's drop in form this year was incredible. I told you you were way off. And there you go again with your result oriented analysis. CR7 didn't disappear yesterday. He was actually pretty lively. Had a couple of nice cut ins and shots that forced some good saves. He just didn't execute. The fact that you said scoring 2 goals in a 3 x 0 win vs Sevilla is stat padding makes you delusional.
so voters decide that award for just a few games ? maybe that's why it's a crap award if i'm a voter, i'm talking about overall just like NBA MvP regardless who wins the trophy
Exactly this. The Ballon has lost meaning, a pure marketing gimmick these days. At least Messi's performance has made it interesting, as a tie or loss would have dashed any Barca's players hopes. Also interesting was his celebration on the last goal. The perceived non-arrogant counterpart to CR7 holding his jersey/name up to the Real Madrid fans. Lol could only imagine the scenes/reaction if CR7 did such a thing.
I thought he was showing his jersey to the Barca visiting fans in the upper ring of the stadium, but I can't tell if that's the side they were on. I think they are typically on a different side. Yes that was a bit arrogant, probably something to do with how the game went, having his teeth knocked out, being hacked down by Casemiro, Ramos 2 footed tackle, and still coming out on top.
It was to the Real fans. I don't even blame him for reacting in such a way, I can always appreciate such cheekiness and would likely want to do the same given the game he had. I just think that if we put CR7 in that same situation, such an act would foster as much attention as any performance. I'm just not a big appreciator for double standards, of which there are many when dealing with CR7/Messi.
I don't think it's double standard, if you've built a reputation for acting a certain way or saying certain things, you won't get as much leeway. That's with anybody.
Funny thing is; if CR7 had scored one or two of his changes he would maybe have a higher WhoScored rating by virtue of his chance creation and pass accuracy/mistakes (although the algorithm also values dribbles highly). Sometimes it's forgotten that the margins can be small, just as the Bayern game worked out well for him... https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...Spain-La-Liga-2016-2017-Real-Madrid-Barcelona (I don't say he was playing as well, but that's the effect on the headlines and rating)
Hyperbole much? I said he is going downhill. I never wrote it was an incredible drop in from. If you want to talk with me at least have the courtesy to not misrepresent me. . I told you you were way off. Agreed. He actually created more than Messi and on a different day the game could have been his game.
There are a few factors that decide the Balon. And it can often boil down to a select few games. And save for one two exceptions it almost always goes to a CL finalist.
Well Messi has done way worse and talked way worse than CRy ever has. Not to mention one is a massive tax cheat. The other isn't. The Portuguese is just an easier target.
Fair enough, you said you were surprised he has been going down hill this early. Your comments about stat padding are still off though. Messi is by far the main reason Barca are still in the chase for La Liga. RM are still leading more due to team effort as they have been less dependent on Ronaldo's goals this season.
why would i automatically disagree?? i don't even know who you are, i have nothing against you. i don't disagree with you just to disagree with you. if everyone agreed with each other all the time and nobody ever had a different perspective then what is the point of this forum. we would only continue to view things in one perspective. should i now agree with 50% of what you say and disagree with the other 50% to make you feel better. dude, i don't know everything and i hope that i admit that i will make certain statements with a bias if that be the case. in any case, back to the topic, i agree with what you said. barcelona were clearly tightly marked in the 1st half and the same goes starting from the beginning of the 2nd half. real madrid was clearly the better team. and realistically, it's not possible to high pressure all the time. many of messi's plays and barcelona's plays came from deep when real madrid where sitting back, that's correct. i can only assume, that real madrid did not play conservative with 10 men because they wanted to win. and honestly, real madrid still played better than barcelona even with 10 men. i don't think zidane's strategy was a bad strategy. madrid had some chances in which they still could have scored and barcelona didn't look strong collectively. but of course when you lose, everyone nitpicks at every little problem and blows things out of proportion. i watched the game twice and i plan on watching it a 3rd time. asensio also played very well, and if zidane wanted to win, then i think that was a perfect substitution. and judging things based on how i see them and not i perceive them, i don't think isco would have done any better a job than asensio. of course, i could be wrong and isco is the better player but asensio is clearly a good asset for madrid as an attacking option and scored a good solo goal against bayern munich.
Strongly disagree about that, mate. I think you're just rationalizing excuses for any flaw you consider to be Real Madrid's own doing. In my opinion, when the 2 best teams in the world face each other, the margin is that small - you get good moments and bad moments, for both teams. How exactly do you press Messi in that area of the pitch? That area of the pitch is big enough that Messi can easily position himself in a way that he'll benefit from extra space before you get close to him - no tactic and no name will consistently stop Messi if he plays well on that area of the pitch. And again: Messi was not a midfielder in a technical sense nor in any consistent sense: he isn't there to add to the defense, he isn't there to help Busquets out, he isn't there to help Iniesta out, etc. To reiterate my opinion: I think Barcelona should add more bodies to the midfield (e.g. Arda Turan), similar to old Pirlo (2011-2013) who played in a voluminous midfield, and play Messi there as a loose playmaker. It will work better against the top tier clubs. Barcelona can then revert to their usual brand of football tactics against the inferior teams. What we saw yesterday is more of the same as in the other games where Messi did not play in the midfield: Barcelona's midfield leaks a lot of trouble, and Barcelona's defense gets expose for what it is - not a very good defense, and particularly when the midfield is average or below-average at defending. Messi playing in the midfield did not changed that, because Messi was a playmaker positioned in a midfield area, Messi was not a midfielder in a technical sense nor in any consistent sense. But playing in that area of the pitch allowed Messi to run into the box (similar to how Lampard did), instead of grabbing the ball with his back to the opponent's goal, which is what happens that vast majority of the time that he stays up front, posted up, for long spells of the game - he gets dominated by physically bigger defenders, and he no longer is explosive enough to shake them. It consistently has not worked against top tier clubs, and it goes all the way back to season 2011/12 (i.e. season 2011/12 being the season when Guardiola made Barcelona a worse team, so that Messi could score more goals - Barcelona never quite recovered from that, and continued to stumble against the top tier clubs). Real Madrid didn't become reactive on purpose, they probably lost their focus (relative to Barcelona's focus) for spells of the game. Football has always worked like that, particularly when the 2 best teams of the world face each other and are in the mood to attack rather than defend. Real Madrid had Ronaldo's tap in, and Barcelona had Pique's clear cut chance. It was a very balanced game, but I think Ronaldo's tap in would've been decisive - which is why I think Madrid should've won the game, or at least the game should've had no winner. In any case, we very clearly strongly disagree on pretty much everything about Barcelona and/or Messi.
i agree with what you said. i like to see messi do something like this given the way the game had gone and for him to let his true feelings be known instead of hiding them. in any case, i think @celito is right, Cr7 has a reputation for behaving in a certain way, so he gets less leeway.
You are delusional and you are dishonest, both bad qualities to have when you presume to "analyze the situation as it is unfolding." See how many non-Portuguese forumers agree with you. There's a reason for that. "And yes - CR7's performance over two legs vs Bayern is more important and far better than Messi's vs Real. CR7 dissapeared vs Barcelona yesterday, but Messi was a no show in the entire knockout stage of the CL." The above statement is a mediocre analysis, and it clearly demonstrates that you have a rather mediocre understanding of this sport. Ronaldo "big game player" scored 2 well assisted goals vs. an incomplete Bayern Munich - that's good, but that's the type of "good" performance that a player like Didier Drogba could easily offer on an AVERAGE day. An AVERAGE day: not a great day, not even a good day. Ronaldo vs. Bayern Munich was a striker, scoring 2 well assisted goals, in a game where he could've easily scored 3-4 goals had his shooting accuracy been sharper. If you understood this sport, and if you had any real experience with this sport - you would understand this. Arjen Robben was very arguably better than Ronaldo in the 2nd leg. Messi offered a very good performance against the best team in the world right now. Bottom line: you are overrating Ronaldo vs. Bayern Munich, to a comical degree. And as for Messi - Messi was not "a no show" in all the games e.g. he did in fact created 2 clear cut chances vs. Juventus, and both Iniesta and Suarez failed to convert their chances. A player who creates clear cut chances against one of the best defensive teams in the world, is not "a no show." (See how Cristiano Ronaldo 2014/15 looked against Juventus: not only did he created no clear cut chances, but he actually messed up clear cut chances that were created for him.) What has happened to Messi 2016/17, is that he plays on a team that hasn't been consistent, and on a team that seems to be consistently lost in the midfield area. Showing up against the top tier teams when your team is in form, is hard enough. In conclusion: the team consists of 10 outfield players, to look only at Messi's "no show" when things don't go well, is reactive, irrational, and mediocre as far as "analysis" goes. Yesterday's Clasico is yet another dose of reality against your irrational bias against Messi e.g. the bias that makes you believe that one Semi Final game is better than 10 key games throughout the league season. Instead of wearing your ignorance as proudly as you do, you should perhaps admit your errors and your bias when results don't go your way.
Actually it's just the same three-four obsessive forumers plus Celito (the only rational one amongst you). Most rational forumers either more or less back me or took the silent option.
do you think if ever that Monaco win it will Falcao or others beside Messi and Cristiano wins the award ?
Just about to say that, a Ligue 1 and CL win would throw him in the mix, the later pretty unlikely though.
yeah sure, but i think they will go for Falcao instead because of his comeback story from the dead and his ratings is much higher. but the reality nobody outside Cristiano and Messi will win it..