I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. All time ranking, due to longevity of career I put him top 6 or 7. In PRIME YEARS, i would not put ronaldo top tier. Dude, when I judge players like Ronaldinho and Messi, statistics are only a part of the equation. You're not going to full me with numbers of CR7s involvement of play. I've seen enough of him to get a clear context of what those statistics mean. What does age have to do with anything. R9 was better at 19 than CR7 at 21. It doesn't mean that R9 had a better prime than CR7. And to be honest, I don't think CR7 was a better player at 24 than Ronaldinho. Ronaldinho at 24, his first season for Barca was a damn good player. I would take Ronaldinho. Take this into consideration....... At 24, Ronaldinho helped take a 6th place Barcelona to a number 2 spot the first season he came. He was probably the best player on the field against Real Madrid at the Bernabau (#1 team in the league) when they won 2-1. Unfortunately he sat out the game at camp nou. The next season, they became a CL contender after losing to Chelsea in the knockout stage. And the year after that, they won CL. I rest my case, Ronaldinhos prime is better than CR7s prime (just my opinion). The way I see it, Ronaldinho truly has a knack for not just scoring in big games but making a big impact on the game. Pretty much all his famous moments come against the best teams. 03/04 Vs Madrid (away). 04/05 vs Milan. 04/05 vs Chelsea (away). 04/05 vs Madrid (home) 05/06 vs Milan (away). 05/06 vs Madrid (away). 05/06 vs Chelsea (away). And keep in mind this is a short prime. I could not be thinking straight right now but I don't remember CR7 having this many memeorable moments against the best teams in his entire career at Madrid. And just the way he scored some of those goals!!!! That goal in CL 04/05 against Chelsea and AC Milan. kids were doing those in training and games at every moment possible. Ronaldinho is regarded as a king wherever he goes.
03/04 Ronaldinho lost the ballon dor to shevchenco 07/08 cristiano wins the ballon against any prime season of Nedved,Henry,zidane,figo,Raul,post peak r9 etc Ronaldinho in his 1st Barcelona season wasn't even definitely a better than riquelme (ask any poster who is familiar with la liga in the relevant time period) Cristiano's individual achievements by the time he was 24 years old wipe the floor with Ronaldinhos entire career in Europe From 2007-2009 he won 3 consecutive ballon dors under pre 95 rules (like Johan cruyff and michel platini) Was the protagonist behind 3 consecutive league titles + champions league +1 final Not to mention that before his breakthrough He was motm in the fa cup final 2004 and 2005 Team of the tournament in euro 2004 Pfa team of the season 05/06 Ronaldinho does not compare to this.it is astonishing what he accomplished by that age (only players like messi and ronaldo de Lima have superior achievements) Ronaldo was an all round attacking weapon in his Manchester United prime (ferguson called him his virus) a complete goal scorer,winger,supreme dribbler and trickster (even did more tracking back than his Madrid days) In his united prime he racked up 20+ goals and 20+ assists ,led in dribbles etc in one season and than scored a stupendous 40+ goals the next season dominating in Europe and at league while still retaining the flair that made him a unique talent Cristiano ronaldo was definitely a more rounded and effective player by the time he left united than Ronaldinho was in his Barcelona heyday And this is according to people who are actually in the know (like cruyff,bobby charlton,Eusebio legendary players who attested to the legendary status of cristiano ronaldo) Here are some more Alan hansen in 2009 "People talk about the likes of Gianfranco Zola, Thierry Henry and Eric Cantona as the best players the Premier League has ever seen, but none of them compare to Ronaldo in terms of the impact they have made. Ask any manager which player they would choose out of those four and they would all say Ronaldo. No matter how much you dislike him, you just cannot deny that he has everything and that's why the Ronaldo factor is so important to United and all of their rivals this summer. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...ristiano-Ronaldo-is-simply-irreplaceable.html Fernando Torres in 2008 "No-one can rival him," the Spaniard told France Football. "He is in a class of his own. I have never seen a comparable player. "What he did last season is incredible. No-one won this year what he's won: UEFA Champions League, Premier League and Golden Boot. "For me he is the best player in the world. A machine. Incomparable." http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/4545227/torres-ron-class-incomparable Xavi in 2008 "Ronaldo has goals, dribbling, pace and a winning mentality but also he over-complicates things. He feels so superior to everybody, and rightly so, that he tries things that are unnecessary," Xavi said. “Along with Lionel Messi, Ronaldo is the best player in the world. In fact he is in front of Leo in terms of influence in a game. The kid has everything. We are talking about physical and technical football." https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2298195/Xavi-claims-Ronaldo-belongs-in-Spain.html Prime cristiano (in united) was a supremely talented player who's peak is comparable to nearly any player in the history of the game
Nedved? Of course he would. Ronaldo's goal tallies win the day, and Nedved just isn't in his class. Helluva player, though. Henry? I mean, prime Henry was no joke, but again, Ronaldo's goals would win the voters over. Ronaldo is simply just a better player than Henry, anyways, imo. His individual ability is so great that it passes Henry's team intelligence. Zidane? Yeah, I think Ronaldo is better because his consistency destroys Zizou's. Zidane was pure magic, but it came and went, and he struggled to influence results over long stretches. That said, if both players are playing at the best of their capabilities for a single match, I'd probably lean towards Zidane. Figo? Ronaldo is better full-stop. I've never been a huge Figo guy. I think he's pretty overrated. Raul? Yeah, Ronaldo is much better. R9? I know you qualified it with "post-peak" , but I'll still give my two cents. This guy... this guy was different. I don't think Cristiano is better than him- straight up. I think (the real) Ronaldo is the greatest force I've ever laid eyes upon. Just a tidal wave of technical and physical ability with serious creative genius. If you want to match careers, then sure, Cristiano obviously wins, but if I'm starting a team and I have a choice of an injury free 20 year old R9 or a prime CR7 , it's an easy decision for me : R9 any day of the week. He was that freakish. Unfortunately, we all know the story, but this guy was scoring CR7/Messi totals a decade before them...... as a teenager. This may sound crazy to some, but I think Ronaldo (injury free) would've made a serious run to be considered the greatest ever. I don't think Cristiano has ever threatened (or looked like he could). For me, I've always preferred the Man United version of Cristiano even though he became a better individual player at Madrid. I thought he became too obsessed with Messi in Spain, and in an effort to gain recognition as the best player while Barca were kings of the world, he went for goals and stats. Eventually Madrid created a better team, and Barca fell off a bit, and Ronaldo (as a completely different player) experienced unheard of CL success. But in his prime, when he was still a true LW/LF, he wasn't moving the needle like someone who wants to be considered the greatest ever should. Not to me, anyways.
He was already 2nd in 2007. Ronaldo also had a least couple of diving incidents in that WC. And he already had a diving label because he did that a bunch back then. Not much different than Neymar now. I think the whole of England hated him and he did get a lot of criticism by the media there. But yeah, it wasn't "worldwide" as it is with Neymar.
Maybe you've a case with 1996-1998 Ronaldo. To be honest I never had the impression that Ronaldinho was better than Ronaldo in the NT. FIFA World Player of the Year (3): 1996, 1997, 2002[6] Trofeo EFE La Liga Ibero-American Player of the Year (2): 1996–97, 2002–03[149] Pichichi Trophy (2) 1996–97, 2003–04[15] European Golden Boot (1): 1996–97[150] World Soccer magazine World Player of the Year (3): 1996, 1997, 2002[151] Don Balón Award La Liga Foreign Player of the Year (1): 1996–97[152] (Best La Liga Player) Copa América Final Most Valuable Player (1): 1997 Copa América Most Valuable Player (1): 1997[153] FIFA Confederations Cup Bronze Boot (1): 1997[154] FIFA Confederations Cup All-Star Team (1): 1997 UEFA Cup Winners' Cup Final Most Valuable Player (1): 1997 Copa América All-Star Team (2): 1997, 1999 IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer of the Year (1): 1997[155] Bravo Award (2): 1997, 1998[156] Onze d'Or (2): 1997, 2002[157] Ballon d'Or (2): 1997, 2002[158] UNICEF European Footballer of the Season: 1996–97[159] European Sports Media ESM Team of the Year (2) 1996–97, 1997–98 FIFA XI (2): 1997, 1998[160] Serie A Footballer of the Year (1): 1997–98[161] Serie A Foreign Footballer of the Year (1): 1997–98[162] UEFA Cup Final Most Valuable Player (1): 1998[163] UEFA Club Footballer of the Year (1): 1997–98[164] UEFA Club Best Forward (1): 1997–98[164] FIFA World Cup Golden Ball (1): 1998[165] FIFA World Cup All-Star Team (2): 1998, 2002[65] FIFA World Cup top assist provider (1): 1998[166] Inter Milan Player Of The Year: 1998[167]
Ronaldinho was at his peak for 5 years actually which is the standard peak for footballers. None of Ronaldo’s performance against the big teams in UCL were striking or eye catching compared to Ronaldinho’s. Also CR7’s peak dribbling was far inferior to Ronaldinho’s natural style of dribbling. Ronaldo was a speedster dribbler in his prime and used lot of unnecessary skills, whereas Ronaldinho had better pure dribbling skills with more effective technique. If Cristiano’s dribbling was so good then he should’ve been able to use his dribbling skills against big teams( Please, Roma was never a big team).
Nothing standard about being a shadow of your former self before age 28. Also its a stretch to say he was at his peak at 22 or 23. Its just that he was so gifted that even pre-prime was still quite impressive. “Peak for 5 years” is a stretch.
Given how good Ronaldinho was at his peak, I think he only sustained that form for like 1.5-2 years. It's just that his non-peak form was also world-class, which is where we got the 5-year peak calculation.
If one does it for such a short time, like 1.5-2 years period, can we even take the peak seriously?.. if yes, we will have to put Salah into same convo as Henry, Ronaldinho, Zidane, etc pretty soon,.. and that sounds surreal to me.
Why the hell do you keep listing CR7s achievements at 24 yr old?! Are you still having trouble comprehending what peak years means?! We are judging the players best 3 years. For Ronaldinho it's 2003-2006. in the same way, I put Maradona over CR7, I put Ronaldinho over CR7 as far as peak is concerned. Listing all these achievements of CR7 isn't going to change that. Your way of looking at things is too simplistic for me! I just see football differently than you do! And what the f*%k makes you think that I dislike CR7??!! Is it because I am not saying everything you want to hear? Is it because I am trying to see things as objectively as possible (I'm trying)? I have made enough post stating my admire for CR7 and his mentality and improvement as a player over the years. I have already stated he is top 6 or 7 all time. Regardless of whether I like him or not. And even many on this forum would call me crazy for even that!!! Do you want to hear that his Euro16 matches up with Maradonas 86 WC??? The fact that you think i dislike CR7 because I think Ronaldinhos peak is better shows more bias on your part. And how am I supposed to ask a manager which player he would rather have? With what access? I already told you to make a vote on the forum on whose 3 year peak was better, CR7 or Ronaldo of you are so sure of CR7s peak being better than Ronaldinhos. Again, I never said I was correct, I said it's my opinion.
You make a good point. But personally, I would consider Ronaldinhos peak from 03-06, especially when you consider that he won WPOY in 04, which would include the 03-04 season. And keep in mind he won it even when the Euros took place in 04. So he didn't even have a chance to shine in the summer. It was based off of season play.
@ko242 10 completed dribbles ,crazy shots and 2 chances created against the champions league winners Liverpool(ronaldo was 20 years old in this game) Note:Ronaldo's peak is too long and consistent to compare to Ronaldinho hence the reason i compared only a small segment of it (the part where he still retained his flair and end product) And 2007-2009 ronaldo is imo easily above Ronaldinho 2003-2006 In individual achievements (by a long shot),team titles and footballing ability @leadleader
03/04 Madrid is a team that finished 4th in the league and got knocked out in the quarter finals of the champions league I don't see how you could include his performance against them but be so adamant Roma 2006/07 wasn't a big team
Also Ronaldinho was at PSG at around the same age that Salah was at Chelsea. While that was certainly not Ronaldinho's prime, it was miles better than Salah's stint at Chelsea. Of course, Salah's story is not over yet and he can still clime the all-time player rankings significantly with a few more world-class seasons.
you are easily the most annoying poster atm.. you are not even trying listen or argue a point, you simply ignore every valid argument that contradicts your view and then continue repeating the same shit over and over putting your agenda forward... you dont bring any value to the discussion whatsoever
Are you serious???? I don't care what place Madrid or Barcelona in. El CLASSICO is EL CLASSICO! That's the most intense game you can play all season long, and it was at the Bernabau! In the leg at Camp Nou, Madrid won 2-0 while Ronaldinho was on the bench. And keep in mind, this Real Madrid lost in the semifinals to Monaco after winning against Bayern Munich in the leg before. Keep in mind that Real Madrid lost to monaco 5-5 on aggregate! This same Monaco beat Chelsea in the next round and lost in the finals. Meanwhile Roma lost 8-3 on aggregate to Manchester. Losing 7-1 at Manchester! Real Madrid 03/04 won the league title before. Roma never won it in i don't know how long. It's funny, out of the whole argument this is the only thing you had to say. That's not good.
@carlito86 you need to listen to this. Normally you are very level headed and I like your contributions to the forum but you are not acting like you normally do in this debate. You will defend your point to no end. Regardless of the points made to you. And notice sexybeast said at the moment. So it is not something you normally do
The value you bring to any given footballing discussion is zilch prime Ronaldinho was allegedly a superior talent to prime Ronaldo because of what? He was more entertaining (entertainment value is subjective and it can easily be proven that they could both perform amazing skills in both high pressure situations and for showboating purposes.) The ronaldo in the last 2.5 -3 years of his united career was also a more effective player He was considerably younger than Ronaldinho .if r10 was such a natural talent why could did he only become a consistent elite player in his mid twenties,while cristiano was already arguably the best player in the world at 21 years old (2006/07) And lastly the Liverpool performance I posted to @ko242 was an example of ronaldo dribbling at an elite level vs a so called big team(because allegedly he could not do so like Ronaldinho) Everything I post or say is relevant (I don't ignore questions I may not answer them in a manner that you see appropriate but it is not my job or purpose to make anyone happy) Talk about bias though...the cheek Show me a single verifiable source that supported any of your match ratings in the other thread You are @Bada Bing clone Masquerading yourself as a genuine neutral guy.anyone can see through (and from a mile away)
This is interesting. If Salah were to perform like this for 2 more seasons in a similar fashion would you put his chances of ballon d'or above Neymar???
@ko242 You won't change your mind and neither will I.lets agree to disagree after all it's not a big deal
I mean the bigger question is embedded within your question: can Salah perform like last season again? I don't really expect him to quite reach that level again in terms of goal productivity. But if he can he would certainly become the favorite after Messi & Ronaldo. Comes down to who wins CL of course but Liverpool's chances aren't notably lower than PSG's if Salah plays to his full potential. His best chance might be 2019 before the hype he stirred-up from his amazing 2017-18 season dissipates completely (the 'Forlan 2011' effect).
CR7 was never the best player in the world during 2006/07 season. His performance against Roma(a small club IMO) really didn’t make him the best player at all. Did you forget that Kakà was the superior player and literally outperformed him. I’m sorry, but Ronaldo became Ronaldo when he turned 21 whereas a 19-20 yr old Ronaldinho was superior.
Ronaldo was certainly the best player in the second half of the 2007 calendar year (18 goals in 25 matches). But, yes, Kaka was pretty awesome in the CL knockout stages. 2007 provided a preview to what the Ballon d'Or would eventually become nearly a decade later: an award for the best player on the team that wins the CL. Nothing to do with being the best player consistently throughout the year. In the case of 2007, Kaka was by far the best performer in CL and his team also happened to win, so it was arguably deserved, but it still all came down to 2 games in the end (sound familiar?). Since Man Utd lost to Milan, Ronaldo almost dropped to third in BD voting which is absurd considering Messi was hampered by injuries and wasn't the focal point of a team that won nothing that year .
It has nothing to do with changing my mind. I've changed my mind several times on this forum before. if CR7 happens to somehow score goals at Juventus and create tons of goal scoring chances with his service while also performing against top teams then I can change my mind. The problem is, CR7 is so obsessed with scoring goals that he is willing to spend the whole game in the 18 yd box waiting for something to happen. Hustle and Flow made a good point,... in terms of overall play, CR7s best may have been as a LF/LW at Manchester United but he wasn't moving the needle like someone who wanted to be considered the greatest of all time should be. And a lot of people seem to be in agreement with that. In any case, I guess for now we can end it here.
Since Messi has reached his actual level, just in 2013-2014 (where Messi underperformed) and 2009-2010 Cristiano Ronaldo managed to have the same level in my opinion, basically he was eclipsed during most of his peak that's why most people underestimate Cristiano Ronaldo, he made bad choices too, he could have a better player than he was in 2010-2013, a player more focused on the collective game. He was probably the best in the world in 2007-2008 and probably in 2006-2007, although Kaka destroyed MU in the CL and was also the best player in his league as well, in this point I would say that it is way more OK the ballon d'Or for the Brazilian that year than some of Cristiano's ballon d'Ors.