I think you are missing the point I was trying to make bro. What I’m saying is it was harder for Platini to actually play in the European cup because he actually had to win his league to qualify. Not the case for Ronaldo who can finish 4th and still qualify for the CL.
I will admit I never watched Figo until 1998. My first memory of him was his game against Man Utd, which I only watched as an EPL fan and for Rivaldo. That Barcelona team didn't make it out of the group stage Was he still at his athletic best by then? I saw Giggs much sooner, being an EPL watcher. Giggs of around 93-95 was lightning fast and could change pace/direction at will. I saw him again, of course, in 1999 when Arsenal was in the same group as Barcelona. Then watched him have a very good EURO in the summer. By then he was already one of the best players in the world but I never saw the lightning speed that Giggs had. Could just be a matter of seeing one player more than the other though.
These might help show him at his more mobile version (young and still with a 'slim' build, and agile etc):
I don’t disagree that Giggs was probably more athletic, but young Figo when he joined Barca was incredibly pacy and athletic. But I do disagree with you that Giggs was more talented and a better dribbler. Figo was a better dribbler in tight spaces than Giggs for eg.
It is a matter of valuations, for me Griezmann was the most outstanding player of Atlético in the season and one of the 5 best players in the World Cup. Varane, on the other hand, was not the best player in Madrid, although in this World Cup he was one of the best central players, I do not think he has reached the level of Griezmann. By the way, I have seen your list and it is more or less similar to mine, except for the French.
how exactly is he top 5 in wc? 3 pens (2 wrongly called, i would argue all 3 wrongly called) and this: Asissts are regular crosses from set pieces.. hardly something outstanding. He was dictating rhythm at times, tactically useful player and played a defense.. but that's not top 5 performance, possibly not even in France alone, let alone whole tournament..
Let me put it this way.. which one of his 7 games would you rate as at least 8/10 performance? I would none.
If cavani wiped the floor with ronaldo than a much younger mbappe did the exact same thing with Lionel Messi on the same day(you do remember messi is an Argentine) As for mbappe's performance vs Argentina if you go a few pages back you would see exactly what I feel about it (Imo it was a greater performance than any individual wc performance by r9. Also better than any individual wc performance by cristiano,messi,Xavi,iniesta,modric,figo,platini,Ronaldinho,zico and a few other legends Ronaldo did not only score a bicycle kick against juventus (even though it was by far his greatest moment) He scored twice and made 1 assist thereby contributing to all 3 goals that were scored (in addition to scoring the winning penalty in the 2nd leg-a very high pressure penalty) So ronaldo was directly involved in all 4 goals Real Madrid scored against Juventus As for your assessment about who was better in the champions league it is based solely on your opinion (not facts) Ronaldo was top scorer in the champions league in 2012/13 His goals included a 90+minute winning goal against Manchester City to win 4-3 topping the group the winning goal against Manchester United in the r16 He was also actually impressive against Dortmund in the groupstage and scored (a lob) His worst performance was against Dortmund in the semi final (but still scored-a tapin) Messi was equally abysmal against Bayern and his only impressive performance came against Milan (1 game which is not enough) https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/may/27/champions-league-review-player-season Champions league 2006/07 Ronaldo Champions league 2007/08 Ronaldo Champions league 2008/2009 Messi (and Ronaldo was equally impressive in the ko stage) Champions league 2009/10 Messi Champions league 2010/11 Messi Champions league 2011/12 Messi Champions league 2012/13 Ronaldo Champions league 2013/14 Ronaldo Champions league 2014/15 Messi Champions league 2015/16 Ronaldo Champions league 2016/17 Ronaldo Champions league 2017/18 Ronaldo Thats 8-5 to Ronaldo and messi is 2 years younger so he can catch up but only time will tell Ronaldo is the greater champions league legend (and in my opinion the greatest champions league player of all time) Messi is clearly the greater la liga legend but only marginally superior when factoring they're whole league careers(Ronaldo dominated in England from 2007-2009) Conclusion Messi is arguably still the better (overall)player with a superior skillset Both players are top 5 all time players and the difference between the greatest players in history is actually quite small
Disagree. I thought Cavani's match against Portugal was the best of the tournament. Both of his goals were brilliant, the first one had extremely high difficulty level. Argentina's woeful defense made Mbappe look good. Messi in 2005-6. So 8-6.
Repped for the 05/06 campaign (Messi was World class against premier league champions Chelsea) Regardless of whether or not mbappe faced a poor defence he was still phenomenal and electrifying Kaka's best cl performance in 2007 vs united also came against a sub par defence(Gabriel Heinz and co) Ronaldinho vs ageing Milan (finished 3rd in their league)in 2006 Etc...
Messi gets the edge in 2005-2006 like BocaFan said and 2012-2013 is not edge Ronaldo. Probably a wash to be honest. All in all they are pretty comparable in the CL. You have to remember, Messi dominates in statistics other than scoring. Key passes, dribbles completed... Like leadleader said, Messi has a pretty sizable edge in all other competitions though. And he is over 2 years younger still...
Interesting to read that Juventus a team which is the only team to eliminate Real Madrid in the last 5 seasons and only been eliminated by Barca, Real, and Bayern (in extra time) is being called overrated. Talent wise Juve may have been a level below Bayern, Real, and Bayern these last few years but Allegris coaching has put us at their level. Which is why Juventus has made 2 CL finals in the last three years.
I don't think the claim is Juventus was an overrated team. I think the claim is Juventus matchday team was an overrated team.
I remember asking everyone to elaborate on the greatness of that performance, and unsurprisingly there was a silent. Two weeks later the same thing start so I'll have to quote my old post and hopefully now they'll be a response.
You need to remember that every team or opponent can be regarded as overrated if one is using hindsight bias as is the case with that game. We argued about that game and majority of the people agreed that in actual fact Juventus was a much better team in that first leg, let alone the second one. In my books there is nothing to back the idea that it was overrated. Juventus might have struggled against Spurs but there was nothing inferior with their performance against Madrid, as a matter of fact Madrid got lucky not to be eliminated.
Who overrated it? And what criteria is used to underrate or underrate matchday team? Actually how does this work as I swear I've never heard people saying a matchday team is overrated, yes I've heard about people saying the coach got the line-up/tactics wrong but I've never heard of this term. Ohh, and this is always hindsight analysis.
It's actually quite simple. Lets say someone beat Barcelona of 2009, and claims that they have beaten the best team in the world. That's not overrating Barcelona, they really were the best team in the world. However, maybe it was a match where Barcelona suffered injuries and was missing Xavi and Iniesta. Someone else claims that Barcelona team was overrated. Are they wrong? The argument goes that it's not wrong because a Xavi-less Messi-less Barcelona matchday team is no longer the best team in the world. I don't remember the points made against the Juventus matchday squad, but the argument goes that that Juventus team was far from full power, so beating them is not as big a scalp as some claim. How well Juventus played during those two games (I saw both games, and I agree Juventus was on top for a large part) is actually quite irrelevant.
But who overrated Juventus in this case? Did Madrid fans say they beat the best team in the world, or the intention is to underplay Real Madrid win over Juventus who at any point I believe they are among the top 4 teams in Europe over the last couple of years. Imo there is a difference between a team being overrated and being affected by injuries in a specific game. In your example Barca might have missed Xavi and Iniesta for that specific game and in most cases that will be acknowledged, but you'll never hear people saying that matchday team is overrated. Unless if somebody even after acknowledging the absence of Xavi and Iniesta they continue to say they are meeting the best version of Barcelona. This imo I never heard from Madrid during or after that Juventus game. I totally disagree with the above logic. Teams such as Juve, Madrid, Barca, Bayern, etc don't turn to be whipping boys just because of injuries, whether they are playing at home or away. When you add to the fact that Juventus was playing the semifinal of the CL at home where they haven't lost in xx games the context is clear. It is tempting to use that logic after seeing the outcome of the game. This is actually very relevant. The fact that you acknowledge that even with injuries they played well actually contradicts the idea that they were overrated. Logically if they were overrated surely the impact of injuries were going to be significant, and the score line should also support that idea. Just go back and check the highlights of that Juventus/Madrid first leg before Dybala's injury and tell me how that team is overrated.
Okay, still butthurt that Cavani and Luisito tore Portugal apart I see. Who cares if one of the goals started from Pepe’s error? That describes most goals in football. Cavani (and his URU teammates) still had a lot of work to do.
Cavani had a lot to do with that finish. It's a disservice to say it was Pepe's error. While some people rave about Ronaldo's goal with a GKs making blunder. Having said that, I am sure Cavani didn't do much more as Uruguay were mostly defending and he was subbed off mid way through 2nd half due to injury. But this also describes a lot of Ronaldo's CL performances that get all the rave when he scores tap ins. At least Cavani's goals were of high quality.
High quality finish maybe. Truth is an error on Pepe's part was what put him in that position Another truth is that the finish is pretty routine for any decent striker. Put Di Natale in the same position and he would've scored too. Your guys bait is very poor in recent weeks.
That's no bait. It's a good finish. It's no tap in. Ok, so by that rationale, 1st Ronaldo goal vs Spain was a stupid mistake by Nacho committing a (very soft if not a dive) PK. 2nd goal, don't even have to mention. 3rd goal, mistake by Pique committing a needless foul in a dangerous position.
Fine This is the kind of normal rhetoric you can find from the very beginning of this thread, nothing new here But to come here and say Cavani had "a lot to do" and that Pepe's mistake was irrelevant is pure and simple bait. His performance was decent, but probably one of the most overrated at this WC