All it would have taken, I think, was for Belgium to lose to England and be on the other side of the bracket. Belgium vs Croatia would have been fascinating, and if Belgium was the one to make it to the final, Hazard would probably win the Golden Ball.
So Varane is top 5 as well? Wc and ucl while being undisputed starter... Hernandez should find his way in top 10 players? I am tired of people putting team success as a an argument for individual quality. Mbappe, Kante, Lloris were all undisputedly better for France this wc. Someone might argue Pogba, Pavard, Varane were better, etc. As i said. I watch atletico often and he wasnt at his best this season. Other players have a case in being more important in Atleticos 2018 campaign as well like whole defense, Koke..
Thats probably the most retarded shit i have seen like ever. His team didnt need him so he is forgiven for absolutely underperforming and missing sitters and being burden on the pitch for his team? So as long as you have good enough team that will carry your ass when you underperform, you are the best player. Fine logic. Yeah, 9 goals including 2 goals vs psg that were an absolute joke (penalty + deflected cross that deflected of him into goal), etc. What kind of class that shows? None, class in being lucky perhapse. Other players dont have luxury of being inconsistent so thats why they cant, in overall collect as many goals... and its not like goals show anything.
Yeah, I was thinking about the same thing yesterday. Hazard stood-out a bit more than Modric IMO, and did it against better teams, but not being involved in the final is a huge obstacle to winning the Golden Ball. OTOH, we would have been deprived of that great Belgium x Brasil match if they were on the other side of the bracket (though they could've met in the final I suppose)
But we would see france brazil.. which is the biggest disappointment for me on this wc.. i really wanted to see that match Perhapse portugal argentina as well but fo other reasons ahah
So I'm hearing that the Neymar to Real Madrid is virtually a done deal so presumably he will be hoping to have a say in next years award ..
Something like that would create a minor earthquake in the footballing world. I mean it would have to start with Neymar creating an ugly situation where he demands a transfer, boycotts training, etc. Then there will be a long negotiating process because PSG aren't just going to give away a player they spent $250 million on. Its not something that will happen so quickly like you are implying. Could happen in summer 2019 though.
Talksport seconds ago reported that Ex-Real Madrid president Ramon Calderon says he's been told the deal is done BUT he's not convinced that it's in Madrid's best interests.
What a cringy post... No Mbappe while good did not have a better tournament than Messi in 2014. You can say he won France one match against Argentina. Messi in 2014 won Argentina 3 or 4 matches. He led the whole tournament in almost every advanced stat including Key Passes, Dribbles etc. Messi did not have a Maradona-level tournament but he still had a great showing. In that same Champions League span from 2016-2018, Ronaldo scored in just one of six semifinal matches and in one of the three final matches. If you cherrypick stats, you can show anything. And besides the 3 goals against PSG were in the R16. I'll take their whole career since it's a much bigger sample size. Messi has a higher goal rate in the CL: Messi: 0.80 goals per match, goal every 103 minutes Ronaldo: 0.76 goals per match, goal every 110 minutes One performance no matter how great against a depleted Juventus team should not be enough to win Ballon D'Or. Unfortunately, it probably will be.
Real ain’t signing Neymar and they confirmed it on their official site. They’ll most likely sign Eden Hazard who had a great WC.
I will admit I haven't heard much of this move until recently. Now it does feel almost inevitable that Hazard will be going to Madrid. That would be a shame, as an EPL fan. I'd like him to stay, just like I actually want Kane to stay. Hazard has the potential to overtake Giggs as the greatest left-winger in EPL history.
Hazards peak (double PFa winner)is certainly better than Ryan giggs the only thing the latter has is longevity (and even his longevity as a world class player is questionable)
Hazard surpassed Giggs probably after 2014-15 season and plus his great WC performance makes him far superior to someone like Giggs.
I disagree 14/15 was hazards first season as a top 5-6 player in the world (Still imo behind messi,cristiano,robben and arguably James Rodriguez) He followed this up with a disaster of a season but then replicated his great form in 16/17) The World Cup argument cant be used against giggs for the simple reason that it is virtually impossible for him to do anything at international level with a team like wales Hazard is too inconsistent to regarded as a player whose historical significance is greater than giggs (13 premier league titles and 2 champions leagues)although it must be said hazard at his very best is certainly the more impactful/dominant player Note Hazard is probably the best dribbler in the world (in a world without messi)? but a young giggs was imo was just as impressive if not better (he was imo a superior talent to luis figo)
I agree Hazard has had a better peak. Many left-wingers have had better peaks than Giggs. Certainly, Giggs greatness lies in his longevity with the most successful club in England. The reason I think Hazard could overtake Giggs in the all-time EPL ranking is because he's only 2 PFA TotY behind Giggs. Giggs has 6 in over 2 decades, while Hazard has 4 in 6 years. He can win 3 more, and overtake Giggs. Throw in the fact that he actually deserved his PotY award, unlike Giggs who was given it as more of a lifetime award, and his far superior productivity, Hazard could become the new default choice for EPL all-time XI. I also do agree that the young pre-injury Giggs (around 1994?) was an even more impressive dribbler than Hazard and even Figo. Figo could never dream of matching Gigg's pace, acceleration, balance and agility. Gigg's had far superior athleticism for dribbling. However, Giggs never had the all-round technical abilities that Figo. Figo could produce much more with the ball than Giggs.
I call bullshit on that. Giggs was nowhere close to Figo. Hazard could’ve achieved similar milestone if he played for that Man Utd team, so team achievement is totally a different thing. True, Giggs will be considered greater, but Hazard has better ability as a player. Also for Wales NT, I never found Giggs impressive.
I never said that Ronaldo's performance is overrated, I said that Juventus was overrated, and Juventus was in fact overrated. Most of the reputable sources already considered that Juventus had gotten lucky against Tottenham, so Juventus missing 2 or 3 starters against Real Madrid, was seen as a weak quarter finalist i.e. an overrated team. Of course you are such a pathological liar that literally your very first statement is saying that I think that Ronaldo's performance is overrated, when you know very well that I have never stated such a thing, in fact, at the time I rated it as an iconic performance against an overrated Juve. Exactly my point... Juventus plays in a weak league, which is the only reason why they can win 7 consecutive league titles. If Juve played in La Liga, Juve would not have won a single league title at any point over the past 7 years. How is this even remotely debatable?? Juve lacks the depth that Barcelona and Real Madrid have, which is crucial in the long league season. Juve winning the odd Champions League KO game vs. Barcelona or vs. Real Madrid, does not change the demonstrable fact that Juve's relative lack of depth cannot compete against Barcelona and/or Real Madrid in any 38-game league format. And of course, the greatest irony is that when CR7 fails miserably at the Champions League in the years to come, it will be you @carlito86 who will talk about how overrated Juve is and how Ronaldo cannot possibly win the Champions League with such an overrated club... I will remind you of this when the time comes, and you will look as dishonest as you always look in any discussion. Pathological liar. Hahahahaha. You are seriously going to use the Serie A - a one club league that won the Champions League in 2007, that is, literally more than a full decade ago - as evidence of Juventus being a better defensive team than Atletico Madrid?? Hahahahahaha. To say that you are out of your depth would almost be an oxymoron, simply because you are so out of your depth so often that making the point that this time you really are more far out of your depth than per usual serving, may sound like a bit of a contradiction to the untrained eye. It isn't desperation to acknowledge the fact that Ronaldo's 2018 Champions League was just one game, in the other games he wasn't even Real Madrid's best player, especially in the Semi Finals vs. Bayern Munich where Ronaldo delivered quite possibly the worst performance (over two legs) ever by a world class player, let alone by a so-called goat contender LMAO. Which, by the way, reminds me... How did Real Madrid make it to the Final when Ronaldo was mediocre?? And again: Mbappe vs. Argentina is at the same exact level as Ronaldo vs. Juventus... Of course Ronaldo fans think that scoring a bicycle goal AND then not scoring a sitter from point blank range, is somehow better than Mbappe almost single-handedly carrying France vs. Argentina in a game that Argentina was winning at some point in the second half. So to put it in terms that you cannot manipulate: I do not need to compare a whole competition worth of Mbappe, because Mbappe vs. Argentina is of the same high standard as Ronaldo vs. Juventus... But the reason why I am comparing a whole competition worth of Mbappe, is because Mbappe literally does have a whole competition to show for himself, very much unlike Ronaldo who was only great in one game against a patently overrated club... Hence my argument that Mbappe 2018 already has a much better argument than Ronaldo 2016. Mbappe 2018 in the games vs. Argentina, and vs. Belgium, and scoring a goal in the Final vs. Croatia, is infinitely better than Ronaldo 2016 scoring some very lucky goals vs. Wolfsburg. And I really have to make this a separate paragraph: If Ronaldo had ever delivered a World Cup performance such as Mbappe 2018... Ronaldo fans would have quite probably rated that as the greatest World Cup performance of all time... In fact, Ronaldo fans would have credited it as superior to Maradona who played against easier tactics and easier opponents, etc. The fact that Euro 2016 is seen as iconic from the point of view of Ronaldo fans (even though Ronaldo literally played no meaningful part in the final), already tells us everything we need to know about how devastatingly overrated Ronaldo's World Cup would be if Ronaldo had ever delivered a performance such as Mbappe 2018. But Ronaldo never delivered such a performance... so it is your job @carlito86 to discredit Mbappe's World Cup performance and to act as though Mbappe vs. Argentina was not exactly as iconic as Ronaldo vs. Juventus and to, at the same time, shamelessly overrate a Juventus team that lacked depth and that was missing several key players in all two games vs. Real Madrid. Well, first of all... Ronaldo 2016 did nothing vs. Atletico Madrid, which is a crucial fact to this particular argument because Atletico Madrid was actually the club that Messi did not scored against in the Quarter Finals. So why does Messi gets crucified for not scoring a goal against Atletico Madrid, but Ronaldo gets a pass for doing nothing (not only not scoring a goal but actually doing far less than Messi) against the exact same Atletico Madrid?? Which brings me to the other crucial fact to this particular argument: Barcelona 2016 would have destroyed Wolfsburg... Styles make fights and Wolfsburg was a match made in heaven for Barcelona. At any rate, the 2016 Champions League Quarter Finals are an invalid argument in this or any other Messi v Ronaldo discussion. In other words, your argument originally was that Messi has not scored a goal after 3 years of Quarter Finals... And whilst I think that most people will or should agree that that was an indefensibly laughable argument to begin with, it became even more ridiculous after you were educated and informed about the fact that Ronaldo was actually worse than Messi was vs. Atletico Madrid, and that it is therefore largely irrational to punish Messi because he was unlucky to get Atletico Madrid in the Quarter Finals and reward Ronaldo for doing nothing vs. Atletico Madrid in the Final. At any rate, your argument really is about 4 Quarter Finals over the course of 2 years, which is a ridiculous sample size and argument. Other pertinent questions to answer: What about the fact that Ronaldo was horrible vs. Bayern Munich 2018, but Real Madrid somehow still progressed to the Final?? Scoring goals when your team is THAT good, is easier, as is obvious by merely checking how Ronaldo's numbers became unreal in his 30s compared to in his mid-to-late 20s. How do you double your numbers at 31-33 years of age when you were better at 27-30 years of age?? Well because Real Madrid was a vastly superior Champions League club when Ronaldo was 31-33 years old. Moreover, when was the last time that Messi benefited from a lucky break like that in the Quarter Finals and/or the Semi Finals of the Champions League?? The last time that Messi benefitted from such a lucky break was in the Semi Finals in 2009, almost literally a decade ago. In other words: Barcelona has steadily declined ever since 2011, it began with Xavi's decline and it became worse with Iniesta's decline at an early age, and Guardiola no longer a Barcelona manager already as early as in the 2012-13 season (which most people associate with Guardiola's Barcelona, even though Xavi had notably declined and even though Guardiola was literally not the coach), etc. And that is why Messi continues winning La Liga when Ronaldo is supposedly a much better goal scorer ergo player, because in the 38-game league format Messi can impose his ability even though Barcelona has declined, because in the 38-game league format Real Madrid actually won La Liga in 2017 in what was literally Ronaldo's worst La Liga campaign in his 9 years at Real Madrid, because in the 38-game format a player who literally scores less goals than Messi and at the same time successfully dribbles about 3 times less than Messi per game and at the same time registers less assists than Messi overall -- Ronaldo actually is the inferior La Liga player as any person in their right mind would agree. Therefore Ronaldo fans reduce the argument to the Champions League Quarter Finals, because it's the only format where Messi cannot single-handedly carry a steadily declining and dysfunctional Barcelona. So 6 games that occurred over the course of 3 years, that is the absolute proof of Ronaldo's devastating superiority... On the other hand, the 38 La Liga games that demonstrate the exact opposite, do not matter because, after all, who actually cares about La Liga?? It's a trophy for the losers who can't cut it at the 7 game short tournament that the Champions League in fact is in the era of superclubs who routinely cruise through their respective group stages. (Not to mention that when Messi is injured or carrying an injury during those precious 2 games per year - as was the case in 2018 - that is filtered out of the conversation because it's not convenient for Ronaldo's camp to acknowledge the fact that Messi's playing style is much more injury-prone than Ronaldo's job is.) In conclusion: You are a pathological liar and a hypocrite beyond words, and it is beyond shameful how you go out of your way to actively insult me and indirectly call me 'psycopathic' simply because I criticize an overrated legend such as Zidane (who definitely was overrated as a player), when at the same time you spend so much of your time in this forum just aggressively discrediting Messi far worse than I've ever done with Zidane, you make such a job out of discrediting Messi that the only logical conclusion to your arguments - if you actually follow your arguments honestly and objectively - the only logical conclusion is that not only is CR7 much better than Messi, but that actually, Barcelona without Messi would be better than Barcelona with Messi -- that is how absurd your arguments really are. NOTE: And as for Atletico Madrid 2017 - not a Quarter Final by the way - Atletico Madrid 2017 had declined defensively compared to any of their previous 3 seasons. Atletico Madrid 2016/17 conceded 4 goals in 2 league games vs. Real Madrid. conceded 3 goals in 2 league games vs. Barcelona. conceded 4 goals in 2 UCL games vs. Real Madrid. conceded 11 goals in 6 games. Atletico Madrid 2015/16 conceded 1 goal in 2 league games vs. Real Madrid. conceded 4 goals in 2 league games vs. Barcelona. conceded 2 goals in 2 UCL games vs. Barcelona. conceded 1 goal in 1 UCL game vs. Real Madrid. conceded 8 goals in 7 games. Atletico Madrid 2014/15 conceded 1 goal in 2 league games vs. Real Madrid conceded 4 goals in 2 league games vs. Barcelona conceded 1 goal in 2 UCL games vs. Real Madrid conceded 6 goals in 6 games. Atletico Madrid 2013/14 conceded 2 goals in 2 league games vs. Real Madrid. conceded 1 goal in 2 league games vs. Barcelona. conceded 1 goal in 2 UCL games vs. Barcelona. conceded 4 goals in 1 UCL game vs. Real Madrid *3 goals in extra-time. conceded 8 goals in 7 games. Atletico Madrid's ability to defend against the superclubs was off in 2016/17, which is crucial in the era of the superclub. At any rate, that type of thing makes Ronaldo's job a lot easier, but it doesn't surprise in the slightest that Ronaldo fans talk about Atletico Madrid 2017 as if it was the same defensively solid side as in the previous years. Unlike you, I do actually consider my own positions and those of other people, which is why I can see that on a level playing field, Cavani absolutely wiped the floor with Flopnaldo… On the other hand, when the playing field is not evenly balanced, you get Ronaldo doing worse than nothing vs. Bayern Munich at the Semi Finals of the most prestigious club tournament, and yet Real Madrid somehow making it to the Final. So indeed, I have considered and weighed all the arguments, and every single time I reach the conclusion that the Ballon d'Or is a joke of an award, it might as well be rebranded as "The Most Hyped Player On The Club That Won The Champions League." But again, on the much more level playing field that the World Cup is (especially with the VAR in place), it was not surprising that Hazard, Modric, Mbappe, Neymar, were all comprehensively superior players to the penalty kick specialist (but unfortunately he missed another important one at this cup), free kick artist (his first free kick goal after 45 tries, that's money well spent I'm sure you agree), and of course header extraordinaire (albeit only one header out of 4 games), that Ronaldo was at World Cup 2018, which by the way, was Ronaldo's most impressive World Cup. And how does Ronaldo go from GOAT to MOOAT (Most Overrated Of All Time)?? By eliminating the Real Madrid factor that has magnified his actual worth only in one very specific 7-game format. Why did Messi had a good performance vs. France the eventual champion, but Ronaldo was horrible vs. Uruguay?? Because Messi is a better player, and being better will tend to show in several different formats, not only in unique formats such as vs. Spain's liquid defense or such as the UCL format where Real Madrid gets lucky all the time. Champions League 2009 -- Messi. Champions League 2010 -- Messi. Champions League 2011 -- Messi. Champions League 2012 -- Does not apply to neither Messi or Ronaldo. Champions League 2013 -- Messi. Champions League 2014 -- Ronaldo. Champions League 2015 -- Messi. Champions League 2016 -- Ronaldo. Champions League 2017 -- Ronaldo. Champions League 2018 -- Ronaldo. World Cup -- Messi. La Liga -- Messi. Copa del Rey -- Messi. Comparing only the Champions Leagues in which both Messi and Ronaldo played for clubs that could actually win. 1 - Messi was better than Ronaldo at 5 Champions Leagues. 2 - Ronaldo was better than Messi at 4 Champions Leagues. 3 - Messi is 2 years younger than Ronaldo. 4 - Messi was better at the World Cup. 5 - Messi was better at La Liga. 6 - Messi was better at the Copa del Rey. Conclusion: Messi is better than Ronaldo, it consistently shows across all the formats including the Champions League.
In my opinion Hazard was slightly better than Modric, even though Modric had an immense World Cup himself. At any rate, two legendary performances. Moreover, my rationale for picking Hazard before Modric: Croatia was clearly a better team than any out of Argentina, Denmark, Russia, or England... Even with Modric at 80% fitness, I would bet on Croatia winning all of those game. Looking at Modric vs. France compared to Hazard vs. France, I think Hazard was clearly better. Moreover, Belgium eliminated Brazil, and Brazil was the most intimidating team at the cup (in my opinion both on paper and on merit), and Hazard was immense vs. Brazil, not to mention again that Hazard was also impressive vs. France, the champion of the cup. For me Hazard was the best player of this cup, but of course the Golden Ball apparently always goes to a player who reaches the Final. At any rate, I'm very happy that Luka Modric - a midfielder not an overrated tap in artist - is getting the credit that he never quite received in his prime with Real Madrid.
According to @carlito86, teen CR7 was better than Mbappe. I’m also not psychopathic enough to claim Ronaldo was comparable to George Best in terms of talent. @leadleader is probably the best debater I’ve seen in this forum and I was shocked you called him and me “psychopathic” over a stupid internet debate. Learn to argue properly and your indecent behaviour should’ve got you banned and I’m surprised you didn’t.
I stand corrected on that one, though to be fair, I added the 'apparently' in there because I had the feeling that I was forgetting about one exception to the rule. Having acknowledged that, Diego Forlan was solid at WC 2010, but for some reason (possibly just bias) I always assume that Andres Iniesta had won that Golden Ball.
It's always a bit of a lottery and cattle trading that goes on. Apparently Parreira went for Griezmann. MvB had as first idea Hazard, Modric, Mbappe in that order but that was for whatever reason not viable, and then he became strongly in favor of Modric. What always happens though is that a winner of the tournament is among the first three. That's a golden rule.