Post-match: New York Red Bulls - San Jose Earthquakes (Saturday, 3/16) postgame thread [R]

Discussion in 'San Jose Earthquakes' started by Goodsport, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. Beerking

    Beerking Member+

    Nov 14, 2000
    Humboldt County
    Fisher better figure it out soon as he's poisoning the well with his decisions.
     
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  2. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We can't overlook this.

    The thing about signing overlooked players is that they still have to be good enough to compete.

    When I talked to Jesse last April, he said that they were trying to put together a profile of players that were successful in MLS so they would know what traits to look for in prospective new players.
    • So, players need some footspeed. This is one of Magnus' great failings.
    • We need players who think quickly and know what they want to do with the ball before they get it.
    • We need guys who are good team players. Guys who want to work with their teammates and believe in passing the ball and making off the ball runs.
    • We need guys who can take a bump and not whine.
    What else should we add to this list?

    And additionally, I'd look in leagues that have good track records in MLS. Specifically, I'd watch CCL games and snag players who do well against MLS competition. (Whether or not their team advances, every team in CCL has some good players.)

    And we need for our academy to develop these kinds of players.

    And we might not be looking at undervalued players. We might be in competition for the guys we identify with other teams, either in MLS or elsewhere.

    But I'd still say a couple of real DP's with some TAM guys and some quality USian MLSers should do the trick.

    Go Quakes!!
    We are crap!!

    - Mark
     
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  3. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Finding good players is an art, not a science.

    What's the profile for being MLS' all-time leading goal scorer? Is it Landon or Wondo? Because those are two very different players with very different profiles. And yet they arrived in the same place.

    And once you develop the profile, then what do you do? Feed it into a computer? No wonder they cannot find good players.
     
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  4. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Seems as though Fioranelli hasn't made much progress on putting that profile together in a year's time. The unfortunate thing about your list is that not much of it is easily quantifiable. Footspeed is, but there are different types of speed and I'd wager not all of them matter. So you'd have to identify the kind of speed of the most successful players for pretty much each position. That's a lot of data to sift through.

    Things like thinking quickly and being good team players are likely not quantifiable in any meaningful way, so the question of how you evaluate it is a really difficult task. Are there points along those lines that actually can be quantified, like time of possession upon receipt and delivery of the ball.

    There's already all kinds of heat map and passing data, so it shouldn't be too hard to build profiles around those things. I'd love to know what Fioranelli's team is actually doing to build these profiles since they have repeatedly seemed to miss the mark. Hoesen is maybe the only example of a guy who can be a reliable MLS goal scoring forward, and now he seems doomed to wait until the aging Wondolowski is gifted his couple of stupid goals before he can really play.

    Like you've mentioned before, I think the idea of looking at lower level European leagues for their top players, with the assumption that they would translate to MLS was a misguided idea. You might as well continue to find the gems of CONCACAF like the Quakes had tried to do before, since the results would likely be the same and you'd save a ton of money.

    Almeyda's particular interest in getting Mexican players is interesting. He obviously has experience with Mexican players, so it's natural, but Mexican players are also generally a lot more expensive than other players in the region since their domestic league pays well. So while I think Mexican players would do better for the Quakes than the European players have, I am skeptical of Almeyda's insistence on them since he's likely biased by his experience the way Fioranelli was biased based on his.

    As much as I've criticized Fioranelli, I actually do think the method of finding the best players of some lesser scouted leagues makes a lot of sense. Every league but the absolute top leagues have players punching above their weight, and if you can snatch them up, you can get good players that don't totally limit your salary cap management.

    Fioranelli has not yet found those players that can translate to the game here, and he's not learning fast enough to demonstrate that he's on the right track.
     
  5. raindawg

    raindawg Member

    Sep 22, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's an idea. Why not go out and get players who have been successful in MLS (and not just build some fancy profile)?

    Waston & Opara are two players who moved in the offseason and either one of them would have definitely helped our team. Was the ownership/FO even in conversations with those (and other) players or are they just f***ing cheap?
     
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  6. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Are they Mexican? :)
     
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  7. raindawg

    raindawg Member

    Sep 22, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You make a very good point. What was I thinking?
     
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  8. markmcf8

    markmcf8 Member+

    Oct 18, 1999
    Vancouver, WA, USA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be clear, that's my list, not Fioranelli's.

    On the one hand, you want to look at metrics for sure, but mostly you want to watch full games, and in person if possible. You need to see who passes to their teammates. Does a defender cover his guy so closely that the enemy doesn't make passes to that player? Does a player make good offensive runs, opening space for teammates, whether or not he gets the ball? Statistics help, but they aren't the end-all be-all.

    On the ground scouts are what we need.

    And we need to look in leagues that match MLS style well. (So at least a little bit physical.)

    Go Quakes!!
    Why do I even write this?! :oops:

    - Mark
     
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  9. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    So f*cking obviously true. And it's not like I haven't said this to the FO since 2007, before the re-born Quakes kicked a ball in earnest.
     
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  10. bsman

    bsman Member+

    May 30, 2001
    MadCity
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
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  11. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    epic indeed, it's a catastrophe.

    1 - New York Red Bulls (Previously 1). Tore San Jose apart, which you would expect, but still a sign of how dominant they are.
     
  12. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    the great Fisherball swindle...



    …"it's a swindle."
     
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  13. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    LOL. I just read today Seattle has won 17 of its last 20 games. Yet, the Red Bulls get the top ranking? Because their players managed to score while left utterly uncovered?

    Here's a prediction: The Red Bulls will not win MLS Cup this year. They won't even qualify for the final. Once again. And their handful of fans will be sad.
     
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  14. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    its not about the Red Bulls, its about the global expectation that San Jose is home of the perennial losers.
     
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  15. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Why are the Red Bulls ranked number one? Extra points for bullying the scrawny kids?
     
  16. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    apparently. I couldn't care less about the Red Bulls. I hate our name being dragged through the mud.
     
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  17. don gagliardi

    don gagliardi Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    Feb 28, 2004
    san jose
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Haters gonna hate. I continue to wear my Quakes gear with pride.
     
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  18. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    and I respect that, I really do. you are an anomaly. I know you share the same disgust level for what Fisher has done here and yet your support for the Earthquakes is unwavering. You've gone to great lengths to explain your views on this and I get it...there are no easy answers to having the most miserly, unambitious owner in all of MLS.
     
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  19. davez

    davez Member+

    Aug 10, 2000
    Mountain View, CA
    Have we done anything, anything at all, to prevent our name being dragged through the mud?

    As Mark keeps saying, and I agree, We suck. I will add, we "totally suck". We are the very definition of "Sucking".

    I was hopeful when Almeyda was hired, and so far color me totally unimpressed. I have predicted LAFC 5, Earthquakes 0 on Saturday. And it may get worse from there.

    What I find particular fault with Almeyda, is his failure to alter a) the Starting 11 and b) the 18 on the bench.

    If it doesn't work in games 1, 2 and 3, are you going to do it in game 4. My forecast is yes. Same starters (basically), same 18.

    And another (worse) shellacking.
     
  20. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    he really doesn't have better options. I wish I thought for a second that any other combination of players on our roster as it stands today would make a single iota of difference, I don't
     
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  21. hc897

    hc897 Member+

    May 3, 2009
    San Jose, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    It's really not a situation of doing one or the other. They should be doing whatever they can to get competitive players, and if that means trading for or signing some MLS veterans, then they can do that.

    You can't really fill a whole team with MLS experience guys all around and fit under the salary cap, though. And there are players around the world who are better than current MLS players, but aren't yet playing here. Plus, Fioranelli doesn't seem like he's spent any time building up relationships with the other GMs around the league, so there aren't very many teams probably willing to entertain trades with San Jose. And San Jose has nothing to trade with, so you're stuck with just signing free agents, of which there aren't many, or giving up all of your allocation money, which isn't a good idea.

    So there are some very good reasons you can't just go out and get MLS veterans, actually. The idea of building a profile for players who are successful in the league is good, if obvious. There's nothing particularly fancy about it, a team would be stupid not to have some kind of database where they can look up player stats from various leagues do all sorts of digging.
     
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  22. raindawg

    raindawg Member

    Sep 22, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The problem is we brought in 0 MLS veterans in the off season when this squad needed a serious upgrade. In addition, you don't need to trade player(s) to get another player in MLS. If I remember correctly, a decent amount of allocation $'s were involved in trades for both Waston & Opara.

    Those CBs are just two examples and Mark has posted in numerous threads on other MLS veterans that moved in the offseason, and this awesome franchise took part in none of those activities. Even perennial underachievers Colorado Rapids went out and brought in 2-3 MLS players to improve the squad.
     
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  23. Earthshaker

    Earthshaker BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 12, 2005
    The hills above town
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Red Bulls are trying to get Judson suspended for the foul that unfortunately ended Valot's season. Imo, this would be a harsh decision. Judson initially intercepted the ball and then tried to poke it further away from a challenging Valot. I don't see anything egregious on the part of Judson. Valot managed to get his body slightly in front of Judson as he tries to poke the ball away. Definitely an unfortunate coming together, but, Judson is clearly trying to play the ball.
    https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/ne...rmas-seeks-justice-for-injured-florian-valot/
     
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  24. xbhaskarx

    xbhaskarx Member+

    San Jose Earthquakes
    United States
    Feb 13, 2010
    NorCal
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I feel really bad for Valot but no way Judson should be suspended, not even close. And he won't be. Armas is free to vent about it, it must suck to lose the guy to ACL tears two years in a row, but nothing will come of it because such decisions are not made based on "how upset is the coach"...
     
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  25. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    My problem with the team isn’t even who they did or did not trade for, it’s with the overall roster construction. Why in the world are the Quakes carrying 4 keepers? Have they EVER in their history played more than 3 guys in goal during a season???

    And what’s the deal with all the center mids? Why not a left footed full back that can allow Marcos Lopez to play his best position at left mid? Also, why do we play with so many slow players?
     

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