New stadium in Somerville

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by napolisoccer, Sep 30, 2008.

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  1. MM66

    MM66 Member+

    Mar 9, 2009
    Brookline, MA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    First off, I just wanted to say I appreciate that you're willing to make the case for an unpopular idea (at least unpopular with many posters here). I can even see where Kraft could be thinking along those lines, but I think it's got a big trap door.

    Let's say the sport does take off in the U.S. in the next decade. My guess is it will be because MLS is suddenly luring the hardcore fans, the folks who call in sick to watch the UCL final and lay out extra to get the soccer channels in their cable packages.

    If so, then it's entirely possible the Revs could be left behind, stuck in a facility that renders it unable to catch that wave. The attitude of Boston area fans could shift from "we need a real stadium" to "we need a real team." Building a stadium which perhaps dooms the Revs to perpetual low attendance in a sleepy, out-of-the-way town could be the very thing that excludes the Revs, and perhaps the Boston area, from enjoying what we all hope is brighter future in the U.S. for this sport.
     
  2. wolfp10

    wolfp10 Member

    Sep 25, 2005
    People have been saying soccer is going to take off for decades. In the late 70's, the President of the NASL said his league would outdraw the NFL in 1986 (couldn't find the quote, Kenn Tomasch puts it up every now and then). That year, the NASL's average attendance was 0.

    Most MLS teams are taking the steps of securing their future in that they are now owning or managing stadiums they play in that are better suited for the expectations of MLS. Sure, Seattle sells 40,000 tickets a game and Toronto has a season ticket waiting list of 15,000, but teams like Columbus and New England consider it good when 15,000 people go through the gate.

    A 20,000 seat stadium within the proper Boston metro area would be dynamic for the team. An entire metro area that is accustomed to taking public transportation would be a T stop away, the immigrant populations would have easy access to the team, and it would be hard to ignore the Revs if they were playing in a modern arena like Red Bull Arena.
     
  3. MM66

    MM66 Member+

    Mar 9, 2009
    Brookline, MA
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I don't know that it will boom, I was just responding to the notion that Kraft could ride the wave from Foxboro.

    Which is why I think the kind of situation you describe in that last paragraph is essential boom or no boom. Also putting it in metro Boston makes it more accessible to whole lot of twentysomethings.
     
  4. mpruitt

    mpruitt Member

    Feb 11, 2002
    E. Somerville
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    While I don't think there's anyway this would happen...

    It would be a damn shame if the Krafts decided forgoe a metro-Boston stadium in favor of something that would enhance Patriots Place
     
  5. The Perfesser

    The Perfesser New Member

    May 23, 1999
    AthensGA/NewburyptMA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Proximity to the Bass Pro Shops
     
  6. Chowda

    Chowda Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    Rhode Island
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    That would imply they were able to get a Boston stadium, but choose Foxborough instead. From everything I've heard from FO members big and small, that's just not the case.

    Having a realistic, shovel-ready fallback option to prompt a sense of urgency among lawmakers where they actually want it is, in my opinion, wise and prudent.
     
  7. Jeremy Goodwin

    Jeremy Goodwin Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ho ho ho, lure, get it?
     
  8. Jeremy Goodwin

    Jeremy Goodwin Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's also the way they killed dead any chance of getting something done in the city last time.
     
  9. jokeefe80

    jokeefe80 Red Card

    Oct 31, 2005
    Boston, Ma
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I dont care if a stadium in Foxboro may be somewhat profitable for Kraft. If he gets 12K suckers to keep coming down to Foxborofail to see games, and he makes money while doing so, that means nothing to me as a fan. Going to a sporting event, with a lackluster crowd, in the middle of ******** nowhere, is ********ing pointless. At some point the 'savvy businessman' needs to actually grow his brand and product beyond what is safe. If he doesn't want to take the risk, then I probably won't stick around too long to check out his piece of shit product.
     
  10. mpruitt

    mpruitt Member

    Feb 11, 2002
    E. Somerville
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    This is a fair point except for the fact that a metro-Boston stadium would be a net plus PLUS PLUS for the Revs and Krafts. There's not much point in the Revs building a SSS in suburban Massachusetts. Best bet, that stadium is a wash in relation to the money they're making now.

    They already control the costs and revenues in their existing facility. If you're not going to solve the proximity problem then what's the point? I don't see how that would make economic sense.

    IMO 5-10k more people wouldn't be showing up to the games because they have a 20k stadium in Foxborro as opposed to a a 60k seat stadium.

    Sure it would look and feel better but at some point they'd have to see a return on their investment. I can't imagine the economic benefit of doing something in the burbs would be worth while after they pump $75-100 million into somethin.

    People like me... who don't go to the games as regularly as I should, aren't NOT going because the stadium sucks. I don't go because it's a pain in the ass to get to. God bless all the people and hardcores who do, but it's a tough sell to make to a friend or girlfriend... "Hey! Want to give up our Saturday night by going to Foxborro for a couple of hours? Yeah, for a soccer game. No! Don't worry, it's cool. I'm a big Revs fan - we'll have fun, I swear. We can tailgate and get all banged up. We'll take a bus/train/cab? No. We have to drive - like and hour. It's fine. I have a car. I don't mind driving and I just... won't... drink that.... much. Screw it. Lets just have a couple of beers, watch the game and then go out."

    Granted, "come with me to this soccer game that's sold out or nearly sold out" is easier to sell than "come with me to 3/4 empty Gillette Stadium" but it's just not happening. I hate the fact that I have to drive to work for christ sakes. If i had my way i'd ditch my car completely and I bet there's a lot of people in metro-Boston who are the same way either by choice or by circumstance.
     
  11. GOREVS3000

    GOREVS3000 Moderator
    Staff Member

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Sep 18, 2006
    Boston
    Club:
    2 de Mayo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the Revs don't build within 10 miles of Boston or on a T stop my interest in the team will fall and I will probably not go as much. It would be a slap in the face to us.

    Stadium in the city or I give up my season tickets.

    It's pretty simple.
    Driving to Foxborough sucks and I don't care if you like it because you live in x podunk town. There are 3 million people in the greater Boston area. Put a ********ing stadium there now.
     
  12. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    I don't see how suites are going to be a big sell if the Revs are the primary tenant. Even if you add concerts in, they aren't regularly scheduled events that businesses (the main users of the suites) can justify an investment in.
    At one time, they thought the new stadium would be the answer to the attendance problem - it wasn't. An urban stadium might be, but at one time MLS thought Crew Stadium was the answer to their attendance problems and it wasn't. So it's a pretty risky venture, IMO, unless they can get someone to share the costs.
    I don't actually believe this is true. The [most] soccer players are not in the city (and haven't been for a long time). No doubt, there are a lot of potential fans in/near the city that aren't coming to games, but I think that market is by far the smaller segment. Boston/EMass/NE is a suburban population.

    Mass has a population of 6.4M - Boston is about %10 of that at 600K. The only other top 10 city in population near Somerville is Cambridge at #4 (100K; Somerville isn't in the top 10).

    By contrast, Middlesex County at 1.465M is MUCH bigger than Boston/Cambridge/Somerville combined. Essex County has 700K, Norfolk 650K, Worcester 750K, ...
    Maybe not from our perspective, but maybe they see it differently.

    Maybe *they* feel that sharing the stadium with both teams isn't working.

    Maybe they feel that if they have a grass field with capacity of ~30K, they could draw NT games again (I don't think the USSF is expecting humongous crowds for -most- games anymore).

    Maybe there are a lot of concerts they could book in a smaller than Gillette venue - especially when scheduling gets a lot easier with two facilities.

    Maybe they can save a lot of cost opening a smaller stadium for Revs games and maybe that is even cheaper if they can keep it centralized with their other operations.

    Maybe it's in their interest to have a stadium in a location where they have a near monopoly on the surrounding amenities (hotels, concessions, restaurants, parking, etc.).
    Yes, but those 3M are not in or that close to Boston.

    I do think they can get some benefits in the current location by working on some kind of public transportation plan - that would help all events as well as Patriot Place.
     
  13. jokeefe80

    jokeefe80 Red Card

    Oct 31, 2005
    Boston, Ma
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    in/around boston is a hell of a lot more accessible to a hell of a lot more people than foxborofail
     
  14. Nick Katz

    Nick Katz New Member

    Nov 22, 1999
    Boston
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    If they don't build something downtown, I would seriously debate ending my 13 year relationship with the Revs. If my front office can't figure out Gillette sucks, sucks, sucks, sucks for soccer -- then I'm out of here.
     
  15. Jayfil

    Jayfil Member

    Feb 24, 2000
    South Burlington, Vermont
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This whole population argument is totally disingenuous. The highest population density is in and around Boston. That's indisputable. You say that Middlesex County is larger than Boston/Cambridge/Somerville combined. That's because Cambridge and Somerville are in Middlesex County! Half (over 700k) the residents of Middlesex County live within 5 miles of Boston, are served by Boston's public transportation, and would be considered part of "Boston" if it weren't for the arbitrary drawing of town lines four centuries ago. Essex and Norfolk Counties are the same.

    And that's not even getting into demographics...
     
  16. jaisz

    jaisz New Member

    Jun 21, 2009
    MLS 1.0
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Being a college student right near Boston, fellow students that follow soccer (theres a ton) would go to Revs games if they were easily accessible. Half of us have no way of getting out to Foxboro, and others already prefer spending their weekends in Boston. I think a stadium in Somerville or anywhere in Boston would draw a decent amount of college students.
     
  17. Jayfil

    Jayfil Member

    Feb 24, 2000
    South Burlington, Vermont
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This. I don't live close enough to get to many games, but I've been with the Revs since 1996. I can't imagine being a fan of any other MLS team. But if the Revs were to build another stadium in Foxboro or announce that they were going to stay in Gillette for good I'm not sure that I'd have much more commitment to the franchise. Not so much because Gillette's suckitude affects me much personally, but mostly because it's the ultimate signal that they just don't care about the fans or building the sport.

    It's tough to be loyal when it isn't reciprocated. Hell, Montreal is three hours closer to me than Foxboro anyway...
     
  18. RevsWeyMA

    RevsWeyMA Member

    Jul 8, 2009
    Weymouth, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am enjoying this thread, or at least the business student in me is enjoying it.

    Personally, I like the aesthetic idea of a city stadium. That said, I (ducking) prefer driving to Foxboro for Revs games. I live in the suburbs and have access to the T near my house. However, going to games in Boston is just a pain in the *** for me. I don't like the ride experience, I don't like being stuck in crowded train/trolley cars, especially with my three kids (into whom I am trying to inculturate a love of the game). It takes us about 1 hour to get from my house to Fenway Park or the Garden on the T. Conversely, getting to Gillette in my car takes 30 minutes tops, from my front door to P1.

    I love watching the game of soccer, and I love the Revs, and I am going to get to the games, whether they are in Foxboro or in Somerville, regardless of how I feel about the train.

    There are many good reasons given by inner-city residents in this thread why having a stadium downtown is a huge plus: 1) a shorter commute, 2) no need to have designated drivers post-game, everyone can drink without worry, 3) the notion that there more soccer fans concentrated inside metro-Boston. I don't disagree with any of these. But there is a flip side. and that is that folks like me who are not in the city and don't mind driving to games will have to work harder to get to Revs games if they are in the city. Again, I'm not knocking the idea of a city stadium, just trying to throw some light on other perspectives that are out there that may or may not be at play in the mind of Kraft Group.
     
  19. thecastigador

    thecastigador Member

    Oct 31, 2006
    Boston (JP)
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Urban fans (be they new or old) > Rural fans

    That and getting the F out of Gillette is all that really needs be said.
     
  20. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd be driving from Nashua to Foxboro or Boston or friggin' Portland, Maine if I had to. This is my team. It will stay my team.

    Now that that's out of the way ... the idea of a stadium in Boston would be much better than putting another stadium in friggin' Foxboro. Dumb dumb dumb dumb. Thankfully it's just a rumor. And thankfully BKIASBM. :rolleyes:
     
  21. Chowda

    Chowda Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    Rhode Island
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Since you are speaking on behalf of the type of people who would buy stadium suites, care to explain how MLS suites all sell, but they are priced differently? Do you really think a Foxborough SSS would warrant the exact same demand, yielding a comparable price to a Boston SSS? Oh that's right, nobody would purchase them. Silly me.
    You can't possibly be stupid enough to be trying to claim what I think you are. Are you? Cambridge and the other densely populated parts of Middlesex County are right near Boston! Except for maybe a few towns in the SW part, it's much easier to get to Boston than Foxborough. Here's a map:

    [​IMG]

    See that red in Middlesex County? If you lived there, you would find it much, much easier to get to a Boston stadium than to Foxborough. Oh wait, people don't measure miles per gallon. They are more concerned about miles per political boundaries crossed and are prohibited from Boston mass transit due to the great Boston blockade of aught nine.
     
  22. Jayfil

    Jayfil Member

    Feb 24, 2000
    South Burlington, Vermont
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I admire that. Honestly, I'd probably never leave the Revs either, even when Montreal gets an MLS team and I can get to Stade Saputo once a month or so. Not to trivialize such things, but we're like a bunch of battered women.

    Back on topic, has anyone been attending these Somerville meetings/hearings?
     
  23. jokeefe80

    jokeefe80 Red Card

    Oct 31, 2005
    Boston, Ma
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    rkupp = bob kraft

    i've solved the riddle
     
  24. Alan

    Alan Titanium Member

    Feb 25, 1999
    Massachusetts
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    New rumor ... Harvard will build an SSS for the good of the community.

    Suburbanites immediately hang yourselves. Urbanites, now is the time to jizz in your pants. Discuss.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. mpruitt

    mpruitt Member

    Feb 11, 2002
    E. Somerville
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    These are good points, but I disagree about the concern venue. I would think that Greatwoods (or whatever it's called now) being just down the street would make that a pretty competative market.
     

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