I don't think 80,000 is that undoable. Cities like Milan, Barcelona, Dortmund and Dublin have stadiums of over 80,000 capacitities, and all of them have much smaller populations, in fact, there are more people living in the GTA than in Ireland. Of course the first three examples have world class football clubs and are situated in countries where football is the number one sport. In Ireland however, football is less popular, but they manage to get good use out of the stadium by using it for Gaelic Games, rugby, and football. In Toronto they could definately use the stadium for both American and "European" football (I don't like the idea of sharing it with a baseball team), and I also think that hosting a world cup would definately increase interest in soccer, possibly to the point where we could make good use of the stadium after the tournament was over. All in all though, when you look at the hosts for the biggest three tournament in the next six years (SA 2010, POL/UKR 2012, BRA 2014), Canada is already well ahead. While we would have to build 10 or so world class stadiums, we already have all the other infrastrucure (hotels, roads...) required for hosting the world cup, whereas the above hosts, not only have to build/completely renovate stadiums, but also have to spend millions (billions?) on other infrastucture.
MLS and USL having nothing to do with building 50,000, 60,000 or 80,000 seat stadiums. They are completely of no use to them. And we only have 1 MLB team in this country and they have their stadium already. Add to the fact baseball stadiums are bizarre shaped that doesn't work with soccer. We only have to work in concert with the CFL where we need to. And given they are not the wealthiest boys out there, the WC build would take the lead in stadium infrastructure - although I do believe the CFL must contribute financially.
We're even better off than that. Edmonton, Vancouver and Montreal already have stadium with only some improvements needed to the (Montreal being a more than minor). Also, it looks like Winnipeg is getting a brand new stadium with in a few years (well before 2022). SO it would look like 1/3 of our 10 stadium need is addressed before we even begin. However, we do lack training grounds and 30 or so of them would have to be built around the country.
Your putting words in my mouth here now. My idea behind it all is that there are possible cases where an MLS or USL team could share a stadium with a team from another league that requires a bigger stadium. All options must be put on the table.
Group unveils plan for football and Lansdowne Park Group unveils plan for football and Lansdowne Park Revitalized stadium, aquarium, soccer pitches, hotel all part of the plan DEREK PUDDICOMBE, Sun Media A proposal to bring a professional football team back to Ottawa includes giving Frank Clair Stadium a major facelift — and lots of underground parking. The game plan will also include keeping the farmers market which is growing in popularity among Ottawa residents and lots of green space. There are also plans to renovate the Civic Centre — home to the Ottawa 67s hockey club. The proposal for the 18-hectare property situated along the historic Rideau Canal in the upscale Glebe neighbourhood doesn't include any residential development. Other details of the proposal: - a 25,000-seat state-of-the-art stadium for pro and amateur football, soccer and community events and major concerts. - refurbished arena and exhibition hall - an aquarium to be housed in Aberdeen Pavilion - soccer pitches - an ultimate disc field, - formal gardens and ponds, - a 2,000-seat outdoor amphitheatre, - a 200,000-square-foot retail and restaurant complex located where the Coliseum now stands. - new hotel The developers say they're prepared to secure $120 million in private funding to make it happen. The Sun has learned that the group of local businessmen, Bill Shenkman, chairman of the Shenkman Group of Companies, Roger Greenberg, chairman and CEO of Minto, John Ruddy, president of Trinity Development Group and Jeff Hunt, owner of the Ottawa 67's, the group behind the plan to revitalize the park, are also looking for a longterm agreement with the city. The group wants the city to maintain its current level of investment in Lansdowne Park but without any added burden to the city taxpayers. The businessmen were awarded a Canadian Football League franchise earlier this year on the condition that fans have access to an appropriate stadium by 2010. When the CFL announced the franchise opportunity last spring, the group said Frank Clair Stadium was the only place to have a professional football team play ball. They want to restore the stadium to its glory days. They are not considering building a modern sports facility anywhere else in the city.
Watching the last TFC game in Kansas City where the Wizards share their stadium with a baseball team, it looked pretty awkward with that baseball diamod sticking out the side. It's only a temporary home for them. I'd still like to see the bigger soccer stadiums in Canada remain soccer specific. I know people say that the pitch can be changed back and forth between CFL lines and soccer lines, but I'm still very skeptical about it. The are alot of lines used in CFL, never mind the big numbers. I can't see how all of that can be cleared off so easily.
Why do they want 25,000 for the new Ottawa stadium, it should be at least 40,000. This is the problem with the CFL they think to small. With regard to Toronto I think there will be a 70-80,000 seat stadium built at Downsview airports land when an NFL team comes to town 2014 Hamilton will get they're stadium renovated because of the Pan-Am Games in 2015
I agree that if Ottawa is looking for a CFL/Soccer stadium (not that I approve of that be I hate football lines on a soccer field), they should be looking in the 30,000+ range for their stadium.
It's certainly a little bit of a gamble, but again, looking at the next three major footballing events in 2010, 2012, and 2014, Brazil will be the most able to keep attendances reasonable after the World cup leaves. The Stadiums in Rio and Sao Paolo, aand to a lesser extent Porto Alegre and Recife should continue to be well used, BUT there will be 40 000- 60 000+ Stadiums in Manus, Belem, Salvador, etc. etc. etc. that will look like Arrowhead Park during a KC Wizards game. As for Polkraine, Dnipropetrovsk is the only finished Stadium, and it is drawing on average around 40-50% of its capacity of 31003. Once the other Stadia are built I expect that crowds will be similar in Lviv, Kharkiv, and Odessa. Shakhtar Donetsk is the only club that will probably use their stadium to it's potential. Olimpiyski will probably once again draw well for Ukrainian national team games and Ukrainian Cup finals, but will probably remain without a club tennant. I don't know a ton about Poland but I do know that their football league is of poorer quality than Ukraine, and has similarily poorer attendance figures, and although they will sellout home games at the National Stadium in Warsaw, I wouldn't expect them to sellout any of the other four stadiums. Ever. I'm not even going to go into South Africa, who might not even sellout for the World Cup, let alone afterwards. My point is that when you consider what other hosts are building, having 40- 60 000 seaters in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Ottawa, 60000+ in Montreal, and 80000 in Toronto. (Regina, Victoria, Saskatoon, Quebec City, Hamilton, etc. could be cities 8-10, although only 8 are needed) Barring a huge change in the popularity of Soccer in Canada, the key to doing this would be, like with USA 94, teaming up with local pointyball teams to ensure that the stadiums were well used. Not going into great detail on attendance figures, the stadia could definatley be viable for the Canadian cities above, and if as one person said, Toronto were to get an NFL team, you can bet your ass that they could sell 80 000 tickets to every home game. Phew
Doesn't look like much has changed regarding the stadium design. My concern is whether it will create a have and have not division between the old (refurbished) side and the new south side. This was the dilemma that was faced by Hamilton until they found they couldn't put seat back chairs on one stand and then wisely decided to downsize the stadium (to save costs) and demolish and rebuild the side instead of renovate. The decision (in the 60s) to build the combined arena and stand unfortunately makes this impossible, for Ottawa, now - JM Editorial: Lansdowne designers pulled it off Ottawa Citizen February 7, 2012 The final version of the Lansdowne Park redesign unveiled Tuesday is a city-changing accomplishment. It puts to rest concerns that the project would not be worthy of this special Ottawa location. It’s rare, perhaps unique, to see a site that contains a football stadium, major retail development, condos, office space, two historic pavilions, a farmers’ market and a substantial urban park. Trying to create an intellectually coherent whole out of these disparate parts is a challenge, but the architects and designers have pulled it off. The latest detailed views of the plan make it easy to imagine how Ottawans will use this site for a wide variety of purposes year round, and its many elements are well integrated. There was a concern that the retail components would be like a big box mall jammed into central Ottawa. The design details show something that looks like it belongs here. The new Lansdowne will be a vast improvement over the site Ottawans have used for generations. That said, the plan is not perfect, despite the months of work that have gone into it. The retail component still looks too dense, the stadium is an awkward mix of old and new, and the urban park is not especially remarkable. Site rendering Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Photograph by: M. Compeau, City of Ottawa These weaknesses are the result of the city’s ambitions exceeding its resources, and of the creative financial deal made with a group of local businessmen who wanted to bring football and soccer to Lansdowne. The city needed to do something about crumbling Frank Clair Stadium, but couldn’t afford the cost of building new. That’s why the plan offers spectacular new south side stands, but settles for refurbishing the north side. Even that wouldn’t have been attainable without a complex partnership that allowed substantial retail development to generate enough cash flow to prevent Lansdowne from being a permanent financial drain for taxpayers. The urban park is a scaled-down version of the winning design, although it will still cost city taxpayers about $35 million. It’s unfortunate that the city and its federal government partners couldn’t have found a way to use the Rideau Canal as more than a backdrop. We knew it wouldn’t be perfect, though. The city was right not to embark on an endless search for the ideal project, instead choosing what was attainable, and very good. The new Lansdowne will be a major upgrade for the site, and the city.
Latest drawings of new Ottawa stadium View of South stands Photograph by: City of Ottawa Stadium concourse Photograph by: M. Compeau, City of Ottawa Stadium concourse Photograph by: City of Ottawa
More drawings of new Frank Clair Stadium plans (All photos courtesy http://ottawa.ca) There will be something to appeal to all ages, tastes and passions. End zone seating on grass berms will bring the total seating capacity to 24,000 The stadium will have a strong relationship to the park and to the Aberdeen Pavilion.
The new stadium design will provide 22,500 permanent seats for CFL games and professional soccer matches and will be able to host a variety of other entertainment and sporting events. The stadium will be a showpiece for the park and the city, and a multi-purpose and engaging place when filled with thousands of patrons. The upper concourse of the new south stands will have concessions and washrooms for fans, offering spectacular views to the Canal.
The main field level concourse on the south side will provide open views to the field. The veil delaminates and creates openings for people to walk through. A nightime view of a football game
A view of the south stands from the new Bank Street entry plaza offers an overview of the field of play. A view of the south stands from inside the stadium The stadium rises out of the top of the landscaped berm, curving naturally as it rises.
BMO field is built in a good location and has seen some great atmospheres, but you'd have to call the stadia adequate at best. it already looks pretty lackluster compared to the new buildings we've seen in the MLS and soon it will look scummy even by canadian standards! if the MLS goes to 24 instead of stopping at 20, ottawa has the makings of being slingshot into MLS after a short time in NASL imo.
I doubt it. MLS does not need to expand. The league wants to expand as it makes sense to do so. They've made it clear they want a second New York team (actually in New York this time). There's also a gaping hole in the league's coverage in the south eastern US. I imagine Ottawa would be pretty far down on their list. NASL, on the other hand, would probably love to keep more Ottawa type cities.
the way i've heard it Don Garber basically promised OSEG an MLS team if they get a stadium built. all the canadian teams have been well supported for MLS. OSEG is an MLS quality ownership group if the MLS goes to 24 ottawa is pretty much a lock for one of those 5 franchises. the cosmos will be 20. orlando will be 21 beckham will get a team. from their it is pretty foggy but ottawa is a really good candidate.
Do you have a link/source that can substantiate that statement? That is not at all how I recall any of the expansion discussions. You mention New York and Orlando as 20 and 21 leaving three spots in the 24 you envision. On what grounds would you describe Ottawa as a lock on one of those spots? Or let me put my question another way: Why would MLS choose Ottawa over a number of competing cities?
Kingston There was some talk that if ottawa had a stadium they would have a real good chance of landing a team now i don't think it was anyone from the league who said that but just rumors i don't know if i would say near the top of list but i would not say there would be far down.
Not sure how Ottawa compares in soccer interest vs the competing US cities, but from what I can see, it's got one major thing goign agaisnt it and one major thing going for it. The major strike against is that it is in Canada, and MLS and the USSF have made it clear that they want minimal involvement here. So in that respect, for Ottawa to get a club they'll need to shine significantly greater than any US competition. The thing going for it is lack of competition for sporting dollar in their market. The only other major sporting club in town is the Senators, though the Roughriders/Renegades/whatever are likely to return.
Its not really that much of a lack of compeition there are the 67s and gatineau plus the university teams etc.
Do they get good crowds? We don't have a junior hockey team in Toronto, but we have the Marlies who draw terrible crowds, and nobody pays any real attention to Varsity sports.