New CONCACAF Champions League format

Discussion in 'CONCACAF Champions Cup' started by chapka, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Details here.

    Summary:

    No more preliminary round

    8 groups of 3

    Winners play in the quarterfinals
     
  2. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    you posted as I was typing...will delete my thread

    thanks!
     
  3. drt2k3

    drt2k3 Member

    Jul 1, 2005
    Wilmington, NC
    Club:
    Wilmington H.
    http://www.concacaf.com/page/CL/NewsDetail/0,,12813~2575174,00.html

    No more preliminary round.

    8 groups of three with the winners advancing to the quarterfinals. Number of spots per country remain the same

    Pot 1: USA 1 & 2, Mexico 1 & 2, Honduras 1, Costa Rica 1, Panama 1, Guatemala 1

    Pot 2: USA 3 & 4, Mexico 3 & 4, Canada 1, El Salvador 1, Costa Rica 2, Honduras 2

    Pot 3: Caribbean 1, 2, 3, El Salvador 2, Panama 2, Guatemala 2, Belize 1, Nicaragua 1

    No group can have more than 1 team from the same country unless it comes from a forfeited bid, i.e. Panama taking Belize bid then Panama 3 could be in group with Panama 1 or 2

    Each group will have either a Mexican team or US team

    PERSONAL OPINION: I like these changes as it guarantees a certain amount of games for each club and reduces and unnecessary round of the tournament.
     
  4. Ganapper

    Ganapper Member

    Apr 5, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Canada gets screwed.
     
  5. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, with the U.S./Mexico rules, four of the groups will look like this:

    MEX1,2/USA1,2
    CAN/SLV1/CRC2/HON2
    CFU1,2,3/BLZ/NCA/SLV2/GUA2/PAN2

    And four of the groups will look like this:

    CRC1/GUA1/HON1/PAN1
    MEX3,4/USA3,4
    CFU1,2,3/BLZ/NCA/SLV2/GUA2/PAN2
     
  6. FlipsLikeAPancake

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree.

    Under the old format, a Canadian side had to be in the top 2 of a group that had a Mexican and an American squad in it. Now they have to win a group that has a Mexican or an American squad in it.

    Either way, to make the quarters, a Canadian team has to finish above a Mexican or American squad.

    And they should have to do that, because they aren't champions of a league. Toronto FC made the CCL despite finishing 16th in MLS last year. To make the quarters, I'm glad they had to prove it on the field in a tough group.

    I suppose one issue is that Canada is in pot 2 instead of in pot 1, so they'll have to play a seeded American/Mexican team. I consider this more unfair to the American/Mexican team than to the Canadian squad.

    If Canadian teams continue to play well in CCL, then yeah, I think they should move into pot 1. But I'd also like to see more teams competing for the Canadian Championship and for Canadian teams to make the MLS playoffs before I think they're deserving of it.
     
  7. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    It looks like everyone but the USA got screwed. Every team gets drawn with a Mexican or USA team there is a big difference for the teams that draw a Mexican team and the teams that draw the USA team. It looks like all the USA teams will avoid the Mexican teams in the group phase why doesn't CONCACAF just go all the way and have 2 separate tournaments for Mexico and the USA so they only potentially meet in a final this is getting ridiculous.
     
  8. jcmenal

    jcmenal Member

    May 9, 2011
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    I dont like the idea of 3-teams groups, wont be fair for 1 club in each group.
     
  9. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012–13_CONCACAF_Champions_League#Teams the following clubs have qualified along with what pot are pots they could be in:

    Tigres UANL (Pot A)
    Santos Laguna (Pot A if they win the 2012 Clausura, otherwise Pot B)
    Los Angeles Galaxy (Pot A)
    Seattle Sounders (Pot A)
    Houston Dynamo (Pot B)
    Real Salt Lake (Pot B)
    Alajuelense (Pot A or Pot B)
    Olimpia (Pot A or Pot B)
    Municipal (Pot A or Pot C)
    Chorrillo (Pot A or Pot C)
    Isidro Metapan (Pot B or Pot C)

    That's 11 clubs and 5 of them know what pot they will be in.
     
  10. ChaChaFut

    ChaChaFut Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    So the number of matches needed for any team to reach the knockout stage will be reduced by two, and, in some cases, by four, correct? I'm not sure I like it, I think it might a little away from the pedigree of the competition in general.
     
  11. Eric B

    Eric B Member

    Feb 21, 2000
    the LBC
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't see how Mexican teams get screwed either. They still have to beat out two non-US teams, like before. Plus, they have two less matches in the group stage.

    Three team groups can be problematic however, and I'd miss the MLS/LMF group stage matches, which are fun...
     
  12. slaminsams

    slaminsams Member+

    Mar 22, 2010
    Yeah Mexican teams aren't screwed either but since no Mexican team has been eliminated in the group phase of the CCL I don't think any change would screw them over. Unless CONCACAF made it so 2 Mexican teams had to be in the same group but I don't see that happening.
     
  13. Blizzard

    Blizzard Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2002
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    We have to prove that we deserve a #1 seed or another slot. Toronto beating LA would be a major step in that regard. Either that or more consistent play in MLS by all our teams.

    Give it some time. I believe that eventually we will earn it and that is the key thing, earning it.

    B
     
  14. MRschizoid21

    MRschizoid21 Member

    Nov 5, 2004
    Brooklyn, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As stated in the MLS forum


    They should have thrown out pots, IMO and just made sure no two teams from the same country were in a group.

    Apparently, the preliminary round is a money and time waster, because trimming the preliminary round to 4 matchups and having 4 groups of 5 would have been a much better format.
     
  15. Ganapper

    Ganapper Member

    Apr 5, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't like 4 groups of 5. The idea behind this move is pretty obviously to make there be fewer games and less travel.
     
  16. MRschizoid21

    MRschizoid21 Member

    Nov 5, 2004
    Brooklyn, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    4 groups of 5 would do both better than this format, though. As done before, 4 games played on 5 matchdays is better than 4 games played on 6 matchdays.
     
  17. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To play a double-round-robin in 5-team groups would require ten matchdays.
     
  18. MRschizoid21

    MRschizoid21 Member

    Nov 5, 2004
    Brooklyn, NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess I should have stated UEFA Cup-style to clear confusion
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Cup_2008-09#Group_stage

    Having 1 team out of 5 sitting on the last matchday is also better than having 1 out of 3 sitting out on the last matchday.
     
  19. ChaChaFut

    ChaChaFut Member

    Jun 30, 2005
    Yes, that's the other thing I don't like. Teams going into the last matchday knowing a draw is good enough to qualify, etc.
     
  20. Blizzard

    Blizzard Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 25, 2002
    Toronto
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    While you may in fact be correct, it was also an unfair situation for those teams having to play in the competition in the middle of their domestic season.

    A Canadian side (for example) plays four matches in the Canadian Championships followed by a two match preliminary series followed by six matches in the group stage.

    Toronto FC had to play an additional 12 matches in the midst of the MLS season which harmed not only their level of play in the league but also their level of play in the CCL.

    That's not exactly good for the pedigree of the CCL either.
     
  21. Ganapper

    Ganapper Member

    Apr 5, 2009
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It isn't like that didn't happen in the last format. The last round was often played on the different days and different times.
     
  22. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    The Groups of 5 idea is not a double round robin format. I am sure there would be some formula to decide who plays who where.

    At least in the groups of 4 you had two qualifying for the next round. I haven't looked that closely at it but I don't think you can get a situation where you can have one team eliminated already but playing against a team that needs to win to advance on that final match day. You could have placement issues. And you can at least fix the problem by playing both the final games at the exact same time.

    Here is my post from the MLS forums
     
  23. FlipsLikeAPancake

    Jul 6, 2010
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't like the idea of having the competition not be home and home.

    While having 1 out of 3 teams sit out on the last match day might not seem like a good idea, it's not a big deal since each group has only 1 winner. It's zero-sum. It's not like two teams can conspire to both advance.

    A good idea would be to make the last game be a game between top 2 seeded teams, so it's more likely to be meaningful for both squads.
     
  24. nfitz

    nfitz Member

    Aug 20, 2007
    Toronto
    Whole things seems rigged to me to try and guarantee that 4 US and 4 Mexican sides make the quarter-finals.

    Seems particular unfair for Canada 1 and El Salvador 1 in Pot B. They can ONLY be matched with USA 1, USA 2, Mexico 1, or Mexico 2 from pot A. They can't be matched with Costa Rica 1, Honduras 1, Guatemala 1, or Panama 1.

    On the bright side ... the Canadian team will only have into Central America once, rather than thrice. That should cut down on travel.

    Sounds like a good idea. Last day Pot A/B vs Pot B/A

    Not sure why the went for the month break between game day 5 and 6 ...
     
  25. Blogger

    Blogger Member

    Jan 26, 2009
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Groups of 3? Ew. Definetely trying to save money with this new format.
     

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