We need FC Cincy to be among the expansion teams to help sustain this momentum. When a team captures the heart of the city the way they have in Cincy, you simply have to take advantage of it and use that momentum help grow the league and sport. I hope they can eliminate any remaining hurdles, including any legal threats from the state of Ohio over the Crew situation, and get this done. In fact, Cincy could be ready to play MLS games by the 2019 season if necessary as they could just continue playing at Nippert until the new stadium is ready.
If that is accurate this is a 17% decrease from 2016...correct? The number shown for 2016 was 18000+. If all true that is pretty significant and not a good trend.
Dynamo: 10,000. Below is from article in Houston Business Journal last week. First number they have published in a few years since the Grant Wahl SI Ambition Rankings article in early 2016 where they said they had 12,000 season tickets sold in 2015. “Season ticket sales are on pace with internal goals, as the team has sold north of 10,000 season tickets, Canetti said. The stadium has about 22,000 seats. The team's goal is to sell about 12,000 season tickets, which it expects it can do in the next few years, he said. “
I think my season tickets worked out at $37 per game. You can buy seats in the same section for under $30 on Ticketmaster. The only reason I bought season tickets initially was to become a "founding member" which would guarantee me seats in the new stadium. When the club rep called me to ask why I wasn't renewing I said it was because of lack of progress on the stadium to which he replied "a lot of people are saying that". Without a "marquee signing" I fear for next season.
But others continue to say playing in Yankee stadium doesn't hurt them (which there is no way is accurate).
Here's what we know about Atlanta... All but 200-400 tickets have been sold to each of the restricted-capacity games this year based on season tickets and group sales alone. Tickets just went on sale to the general public today. So each of those games is virtually guaranteed to sell-out and they will likely sell at least a few standing-room tickets as well. Plus, they opened some new, field-level premium seating that will slightly increase capacity in the lower-bowl. So, although the stated capacity was 42,500 last year, they consistently exceeded that and will likely average closer to 44,000 for those games in 2018. Meanwhile, the 4 full-stadium games look like they will sell-out too. There are only about 6,000-8,000 seats remaining for each of those four games, meaning the rest of the stadium was purchased by season ticket holders and group sales. I bought a few extras to two of those games via a pre-sale for example. Some others bought 4-game packs. What's left will sell quick as today was the first day those tickets were even available. We'll probably sell at least a few standing-room tickets for those games also and average around 71,000 for the full-stadium games. So, my best estimate is this: 44,000 X 13 = 572,000 71,000 X 4 = 284,000 Total = 856,000* Avg per game = 50,352* *New MLS record
Naysayers in 3,2,1..."Just wait until year 2...ah, erm, i mean year 3" Next year when they are still averaging 45-50k..."just wait until year 4"
3/11 - DC (first home game) 6/30 - Orlando 7/15 - Seattle 9/22 - RSL (this one surprised me. I would have thought LAFC or one of the NY teams would have been full stadium before RSL.) 10/6 - New England appears to have 8 upper deck sections open. I also thought that was odd.
The fact that Atlanta is essentially selling out all its games before the season has started makes you wonder just how many tickets they could sell. I really think they could come close to 71k every game. They are selling 44k range many months in advance. The level of interest is off the charts. They have twice the number of games as NFL teams and I really believe they would be a middle of the average for NFL if they opened it up for every game. Crazy! This is a very different situation than Seattle. Seattle is still crazy, but it appears the 40-44k range is the max for them (not complaining as that is crazy high). With Atlanta we have no idea where the max is yet.
Keep in mind that one of the reasons they have so many season tickets sold is exclusivity. Many of us wouldn't be buying season tickets if we knew we could get affordable seats to any individual game. For example, I know I can't make all 17 home games and would ordinarily just buy individual game tickets to 8-10 matches like I did last year. But unless I buy season tickets, my options would be limited to 300-level seats for the full-stadium games or paying a big mark-up on the re-sale market for the restricted capacity games. So, I went ahead and bought a block of 4 season tickets. I'll probably attend about 12 games and sell the other 5. The restricted capacity drives buyers toward season purchases and helps ensure the club maximizes those sales. They also collect a fee (as does ticket master) on each re-sale.
The reason they selected the RSL game to be one of the four full-stadium games is because they wanted to have at least one full-stadium game in the fall. If they picked LAFC or NYFC for example, they'd have two in the spring, two in the summer but none in the fall. Turns out, they only had 3 choices for a full-stadium game in the fall - RSL, New England, or Chicago. RSL is the first home game following a 4-game road trip so fans will be hungry to see a home game again and it's just as appealing an opponent as the other two choices. Plus, I strongly suspect that they want to hold the Chicago game as another full-stadium option. If demand is strong, they may open that one too because it's the final home game of the year. If demand significantly exceeds supply this year, they may go for 6 or more full-stadium games next year. I think that is the smart way to go. Keep them wanting more. As for the New England game, there are no seats available in the 300 level. What you're seeing are sections in the 200 level mezzanine which is open for every game. Although 8-9 sections are showing as having seats for sale, there are only about 300 tickets available in the 200 level and about 300 more in the 100 level for that game.
I'm quite happy with how they've done it. They had a record turnout last year and will take it a step higher this year. But I don't want them to go overboard with full-stadium games as that would mean two things: Some games may not sell out if the full-stadium were open more often. It's more important to have every game packed and have MLS be a "hot ticket" than to sell every possible ticket you can. It would devalue my season tickets to open the stadium every game or even half of the games. If I attend 12 games and sell 5, I want to get the best price possible for those 5. Yet if someone can buy a $25 ticket in the 300 level, it becomes less likely that they'll buy my $60 first level seats and I end up eating them, giving them away for free, or selling at a loss. If that happens too often, I don't renew next year and neither do a lot of other season ticket buyers. Again, exclusivity has value. It's also the reason so many individual game tickets were sold during the pre-sale to season ticket holders. Since there were only 4 games where you could get extra seats, many of us picked a game or two and got an extra pair, knowing we better grab them now while we can get them at standard prices rather than having to pay re-sale mark-up later.
Dude I am not arguing...just stating a fact that demand is way higher than 44k per game. This is a fact as they are selling out months in advance. I am not saying they should change anything. They obviously know what they're doing.
No it was showing 8 sections in the 300 level. I can't find it now. They may have changes it since I looked at it this morning.
It's a fair question, but Seattle is about to enter year 10 and their support is still going strong. With the way this club is investing in its roster, I think Atlanta can be a perennial playoff team and sustain the fan interest as well. The team has really captured the heart of the soccer community. It's not just a fad among non-soccer fans who will drift away easily. Almost all of the ATLUTD fans I know are people who love soccer and were just waiting to finally have a team of their own. So, I think it will last and possibly even grow.
I'm not arguing either. Totally understand your point. Just noting why it's smart to restrict capacity even if demand is higher. As a season-ticket holder, I've very happy with their approach.
The state of soccer in the US tends to be one of perpetual cynicism in spite of the amazing progress of the past 25 years. I've seen first hand people "convert" to the sport they swore they hated years. I am confident that our best years are to come and Atlanta stories are a glimpse into that future.
True. There will be converts for sure when people experience it and realize how fun it is. We've seen some of that already. But the main point is I really don't think it's just a fad. Soccer creates a connection with its fan base that you only see in college sports here in the US. So that's another reason I think the support will last or even grow. People aren't just watching to be entertained. After only 1 year, ATLUTD fans truly love their team already, as if they've been pulling for them their entire lives.
TFC President Bill Manning was recently given the same title/role with the Toronto Argonauts of the CFL (they came under the MLSE umbrella recently). In this article about the Argos, he gives a few tidbits of interest: Season ticket number for TFC to be 24,500 looking to expand BMO by 5k "show rate" last year was 84% (up from 72% in 2015) renewal rate 98.5% average ticket price of $45 means nearly $1.2 million/game in ticket sales TFC revenue is up 30% since 2015 TV viewership is up almost 200% http://torontosun.com/sports/soccer...ng-looks-to-improve-embattled-argos-situation
Hopefully this sends a "build it and they will come" message to the rest of the league. Invest in your roster, put a winner on the field, and interest will grow to a point where you earn a nice return on your investment. It's time for MLS to transition from the mode of simply controlling costs to investing for the future.
Is this a valid conclusion though? Toronto has always been one of the top spenders in the league. This is just the first time that they've spent wisely and the results match the payroll.. Additionally, Toronto's "problem" with regards to season tickets has been the size of their stadium. Don't forget that when they started, they were in a 21k stadium and had a 15k wait list for season tickets. It took them almost a decade of ineptitude to burn through that wait list and now that they don't suck, the fan base that departed is coming back into the fold and, this time, they have a 30k capacity stadium to hold them in...
I think we're making two different points that aren't necessarily in conflict. The investment strategy is no longer irrational and irresponsible. There was a time in MLS where controlling costs was key just to keep the league afloat. The easiest way to drive a new league out of business is to over-spend in the early years, before the league has established, steady, growing revenue streams. We saw that with NASL (as well as the USFL and others). But we're reaching a point now where that's no longer the case. Revenues are steady and growing, so it's time for clubs to get more aggressive and start pushing the league forward with investment. Anyone building a 21K stadium these days is probably not thinking big enough and, at a bare minimum, they need to have plans to expand. In other forums, I've outlined the importance of increasing TV revenue and corporate sponsorships. But for now, MLS still makes the bulk of its revenue on gameday via ticket sales, concessions, and merchandise. So, we need as many butts in seats as we can get and these tiny stadiums are a bit too tiny. I fully understand and appreciate the value of scarcity or exclusivity as that helps drive-up ticket prices and season ticket purchases. But 21K is still just too small for the modern era of MLS.