Neverending Story 3: The Ongoing Brexit Thread

Well, tbh, we're not alone in using the EU to blame for our own mistakes.

No, that's not really true.

We joined to increase trade and we never really had any interest in joining a political union... which is why it was a bit of a daft idea for us to join in the first place.

I've posted on here the UK government leaflet from the 1975 and it makes interesting reading. As you say, it goes out of it's WAY to stress the fact that we can stop increasing the amount of sovereignty we shared at any time.

You'd have thought THAT would have given people the clue our heart wasn't really in it.

Well, that the fact we had a vote to leave only 18 months after we'd joined

 

Indeed so we leave, cheers shocker

 

... and we also could have had a vote to leave at any point or, (GOD FORBID), NOT pass the treaties that changed things in the first place.

ALL of the changes that have been made, we were there, every step of the way. In fact, we actually PUSHED for most of them ourselves.

The single market, (y'know... the same thing that's an 'utter betrayal of the leave vote' now), was a Thatcher idea right from the start.

The whole thing's absolutely laughable.

 

Oh yes, all member state governments do this. The difference is that the rabid anti-EU stance in part of the UK media was, until very recently, unique. I think both parties allowed these media to poison the well with exaggerated reporting and at a certain point either no longer dared to counter the mood or were unable to do so, or simply did not care.

 

Oh, on our part it's been political cowardice on an EPIC scale for sure but, tbh, is it THAT much different to the way the EU has drifted into various mistakes and/or inaction?

The way they let the southern european states into the euro when they were CLEARLY not in a political or economic position to be members.

The historians of the future will hold the current crop of european politicians in VERY low esteem

 

Oh, I'm not saying continental politicians are any better. Merkel's asylum decision is on par with Cameron's referendum idea. My view is that politics in the UK has had deal with (and sometimes actively promoted) a far more negative view of the EU than most other member states (until recently) and that backfired in the end.

That said, I'm fairly neutral on the topic. I think the UK might benefit in the long term as it's economic dependence on financial services might shift more to a more diverse economy and the EU and Eurozone would have one less obstructionist party to deal with.

 

...why?

Helping people fleeing the biggest war in the 21st century is...bad?

 

No, it isn't bad and neither is giving people a vote about the future direction of their country.

The problem is that both decisions were opportunistic, neither government leader considered the potential consequences enough, neither consulted their partners in the EU, the execution of the plans was poor and both have major repercussions across Europe.

 

What was it Galbraith said? That, given enough determination, hard work and perseverance it's possible to kick yerself up the backside and out on the street

Something like that.

Yeah, they took the course of least resistance but, like I say, they didn't have to convince too many to swing the dial enough for this outcome

A third of people voted to come out in '75 and that was DECADES before any of the current issues like funding, immigration, the euro and whatnot.

Hmmm... I think it's unlikely we'll benefit.

A more likely scenario, (and what I suspect will happen), is that it won't make a fat lot of difference... mainly because we'll be 'in' in all but name, saving a few quid on the contributions but not having much of a say on what goes on.

I say, not 'much' of one because I think that, because of the size of our economy, we'll still have influence... just not formally. But we'll see of course.

My overriding impression, though, (and I've said this before), is one of intense irritation at what a COLOSSAL waste of time it's all been

 

Why would you need influence at the EU when you will be able to rule this world again completely on your own?

 

Helping brown people.

 

Brown?






Not so's you'd notice.

if we didn't accept people like that half of southern Europe wouldn't be allowed in

 

That outcome is possible but I'm not convinced it is all that likely. Either the EU or the UK will have to compromise in regard to the four freedoms and that might be a hard sell to the voters.

Talk about colored lenses.

 

Oh, we'll be making some compromises and I think the EU might be making some minor ones as well.

But I suspect that, 5 years after the change we'll be asking ourselves, 'So, what was the point of THAT?'.

 

I've got some extra room at my place. I'll even throw in a 1st class ticket if that would help!

 

You are the very epitome of christian goodwill

 

A lot of UK media that I hear (sure the somewhat liberal or pro business kind) is actually very pro EU.

 

But thats not what the average Thommy "reads"

 

Germany is becoming more open and diverse
With the right leadership, it could be a model for the West

https://www.economist.com/news/lead...-be-model-west-germany-becoming-more-open-and

 

Are they handling it any different than other countries? It seems like the reaction of a good portion of the German electorate to the influx of refugees is to vote for the AfD. While that reaction certainly isn't as extreme (yet) as the nativists in Eastern Europe and US it does seem like something of a rising concern that the article seems to gloss over...

 

The article mostly reads like wishful thinking. Nativism has been on the rise since the 2000s across Europe. I'm not sure if the economist, with its internationalist slant, is prepared to face that.

 

They have a lot of articles about how this is happening (the turn to nationalist), I guess they wanted some positive ones to balance it out.