Neverending Story 3: The Ongoing Brexit Thread

then fine tune your mind reader

 

This thread hit it right on the head the never ending BREXIT DEBACLE. Nothing is as simple or straightforward as it seems to be. Brexit has essential brought down two British governments and might bring down a third. I don't even know how many times Brexit or the version that the PM wanted whether it was May or Johnson has been voted down (perhaps 10 times). Europe seems fine to let the UK sweat and give them an extension but it's so interesting that this is tearing British political society apart. I wonder socially and culturally day to day how the British are reacting to it. People who live there particular in England I would like to hear your opinion. Is everybody obessed with, arguing about, divided and is the culture pop and wider British culture and groups of people split over Brexit? Or is this just a political story that most English people are disconnected from and shake their heads at the people in Westminster?

 

Yea but I think it's more than than that. Amongst people in the City, cosmopolitan, urbane, educated and affluent or even most Londoners I would believe never meeting a brexiteer would be accurate. However it's more than a concoction of the Tory Right or far right. It had a clear mandate by popular referendum even though I think an up and down vote on such a matter nationally is silly.

 

I know plenty of Remainers and Leavers alike. They talk about it frequently.

 

It simply is a copy of what that US alt right dude Bannoon was pushing for, tearing down the democratic institutions and what populists in Europe do with their attacks on the free press, judicial and parliamentary system.
The UK variant is just a pawn on the chessboard of the US altrights to diminish the power of the EU as that economic power stands in the way of dominating the world.

 

So those hardliners who want a Hard Brexit vs those more level headed and conciliatory Tory MPs who want a soft Brexit that is what I see. Brexit has fractured and destabilized British political life and unfortunately will negatively effect it socially and economically. I wonder how at fault Jeremery Corbyn is because he never got behind the Remain campaign to strongly and large swathes of Labour voters up North voted to Leave. But I agree seems like the hardliners in the Tory party are to blame for this disaster.

 

Rob Ford has done some very interesting work on how this is somewhat overstated.

So Nigel Farage is in Bolsover today, making the now familiar "Brexit Party parking their tanks on Labour lawns" args. So lets' use this to have yet another look at those infamous Labour Leave seats. Here's estimates from @kevcunningham on how the 2017 vote in Bolsover broke down pic.twitter.com/suH7NrPYy7

— Rob Ford (@robfordmancs) November 5, 2019

 

And that's probably about the highest at around half. Most labour voters voted to remain.

 

Is there an exit poll breakdown of demographic and political groups and how they voted? How high did Labour voters vote in terms of leave? Even If it's a quarter or a 1/3 that seems pretty high especially when party leadership are so strong in the Remain camp.

 

Part of the problem, a BIG part of the problem, is that leadership wasn't strongly in the Remain camp.

 

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/03/a-reminder-of-how-britain-voted-in-the-eu-referendum-and-why/

63% of Labour voters were remain, according to Lord Ashcroft.
What's more remarkable is that 4% of UKIP voters also voted remain.

 

On that very subject.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...remy-corbyn-brexit-remain-labour-conservative

 

The leadership simply reflected the membership, as you'd expect. Most labour voters, (including me), voted remain but recognising all the problems with the EU... that, from a socialist perspective, it's essentially a neo-liberal, globalists structure designed to reflect the interests of bankers and corporations more than ordinary people.

 

Yeah, what's that about, eh?

 

• Conservative voters constituted just over three out of every ten remainers, and four in ten leavers. Labour voters made up four in every ten remainers, and two in ten leavers.

Thanks for that link! It was fascinating to read. 37% is still very high for Labour voters. Part of the fact could be disaffection from the party, Europe or a protest vote. Or like others said Corbyn was awful when it came to defending the Remain side since he is an old Labour lefty who on socialist /ideological grounds doesn't like the EU at heart.

 

Tom Watson standing down as MP...always a good sign.

Labour also actively recruiting for candidates in the East Midlands...always a good sign.

Also a good sign: YouGov have Labour leading by 1 pt...in WALES.

@Naughtius Maximus your party is in shambles.

 

It's all as shambolic as a Dutch back four trying to bunker.
All at sixes and sevens,aren't they?

 

Dawkins knows shit about politics, but hey, I like what he is saying here, very naive and he will be wrong as usual, but I like it.

It’s time to desert traditional loyalties, time to destroy both Tories and Labour. Vote Remain or Leave. Vote LibDem or Brexit Party.https://t.co/qIsvtoE7J1

— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) November 7, 2019

 

Well, strictly speaking, it's not actually my party. It's the party of which I'm a member but...

Tom Watson is still saying people should vote labour but didn't want to stand for 'personal reasons'. Not idea what that means other than that he wanted us to endorse a confirmatory vote a long time ago but, we've been doing that for a while so, what's the problem now. I'm guessing it relates to him not liking being singled out at the party conference but Jezza put the mockers on that so maybe it's just that he says he wants to come out and say we'll go for remain regardless of any deal we might get. Not sure how he thinks those negotiations are going to be handled or, maybe more to the point, what the punters would make of that thinking, (a general dislike I'm guessing), but there we are.

Also, don't know what's gone on with this one...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-50322652

She was only chosen a fortnight ago whereas PPC's were meant to all be in place 6 months ago, at least. Ours was!

regarding polling... we seem to have ticked up a bit in the poll of polls in the last few days but then, so have the tories...

https://www.theguardian.com/politic.../oct/31/uk-general-election-2019-poll-tracker

Still a long way to go yet so we'll see.

BTW, what was your prediction back before the 2017 general election when it started. I'd be interested to see

 

I can't hear you:


You're saying?


Talking about us

 

You refuse to provide a prediction for this election and feel it is appropriate to ask me to provide a prediction from two years ago...how interesting.