Neverending Story 3: The Ongoing Brexit Thread

We're not in the Schengen zone so we already control that.

You sound like you're talking about a 'Trusted Trader' scheme. Those aren't in place for exports to/from the EU AFAIK, (other than for ports, not the manufacturers), and, obviously, to establish them requires an agreement between the different states, in this case the UK and the EU... i.e. a DEAL!

This goes to the heart of the matter.

You get that the whole point of the EU as a trading entity IS to introduce blocks on trade from outside the EU... right?

 

Unless the guy steps forward and claims responsibility, (has that happened?... I don't know), that's my thinking as well.

TBH even the most modest level of information would indicate that his claim that the WTO means you have 6 months to fill out customs documents is fallacious.

Well, that's what I said as well, isn't it. We can, if we choose, simply wave things through but we're not in charge of our exports, obviously.

What's interesting, looking back at this debate over the months and years, is that it was ME that pointed out that the EU is a trading block specifically designed to STOP trade or, at least, to reduce it.

That's why I get annoyed when I read stuff about how the EU is trying to free up all trade when that is clearly not the case.

What we're seeing in the debate now is the difference between the 'sales pitch' of the EU, (that they're there to increase trade and to allow anybody to move goods and services back and forth without hindrance), and the reality.... er, NO, they're not actually... they're there to increase trade INSIDE the EU.

... or he's just a nutter. That's the other option.

 

True but that just shows the other factor at play.

That some ports, (and Dover is the major one, obviously), are ports that deal almost entirely with trade inside the EU whilst others, (places like Liverpool and Manchester are the ones I'm familiar with), would historically be connected with trade from outside the EU. Others like Felixstowe would be a mixture of trade routes.

I'm guessing the latter would be like Hamburg.

 

You don't know that he's fake any more than I know he's real.

I'm flattered that you're holding me to the standard of an investigative journalist though.

 

Okay, you're an idiot. You are using the language of post-truth. Some yahoo claims to be something on YouTube and your default is to trust him only because he aligns with a particular worldview. If I found some other yahoo on YouTube who said you were full of shit, would you also believe that?

 

That obvious statement is avoiding the point that was argued well before the referendum was won for leave - anyone in the EU who wishes to work, study, or travel in the UK is fundamentally allowed to do so under European law. When you give the people of Europe access to your labour markets then you don't "really" control your borders.

You're likely right and that attempts to circumvent procedure by the private sector in a no-deal environment might be stopped at gun-point for all we know.

I'm merely suggesting that whether there is a deal or not isn't it expected that European borders will wear under exporter/importer attrition and that will likely result in some sort of compromise? I have a hard time believing that Brussels are going to order ports of entry to turn British freights away and vice versa. Maybe they do it in the beginning to show strength but it's not going to last long, not when European exporters start losing their shirts.

 

Well, we're not in the Schengen zone so, yes... we do control them.in terms of people.

You're talking like we're going to have a sort of 'Checkpoint Charlie' arrangement and literally NOBODY is talking about THAT! part from anything that would absolutely destroy the entire UK tourist trade.

Frankly it sounds like you're envisaging us becoming a version of North Korea off the coast of Europe. Y'know... that's not going to happen, is it.

They usually just shut a gate. Guns aren't required.

You mean the EU will kindly condescend to allow us to send exports to them, as long as we ask nicely... please... pretty please.

Yes, that sounds like us standing up for ourselves, doesn't it.

 

I'm envisaging something that resembles NAFTA which is fair in terms of how implied status functions without needing visas except when it comes to studying or work.

Ignoring trade for a minute - when I enter a US port of entry I have 6 months of implied status as a tourist without needing a visa. If I'm in violation of implied status whether it be I stay longer than my allotted time or solicit business without permission and/or attempt to enter the US labour market illegally then I'm red-flagged (in Canada we call it an exclusion order for non-residents).

Now before the days of NAFTA most of the provisions ratified in the treaty we have now was a continuation of previous treaties with the exception that previously there wasn't a preset list of professions that were made to be exceptions to the normal process of employers having to sponsor non-residents for work permits (like a lawyer, technologist, researcher being a few of them etc).

Obviously big business is going to continue to export low wage labour out-of-state no matter the outcome in any treaty situation - that's just a reality - but at least if you're in the services industry working in London you won't have to compete with someone from Poland (for example) who paid 1/10th the cost of the education you did.

I don't know what the EU will or won't do post-no-deal Brexit but anything is better than bending over to technocrats in Brussels.

 

Boris being destroyed....

Extraordinary clip

Dad of sick child: "The NHS is being destroyed, and now you come here for a press opportunity."

Boris Johnson: "Actually there's no press here."

Dad: [Gestures to TV cameras] "Who are these people?"
pic.twitter.com/LIv4Ej2Dgm

— Matthew Champion (@matthewchampion) September 18, 2019

 

He can't do anything without lying.

 

Insane.

 

Corbyn doesn't care about a Labour majority - he's only interested in seeing the Tories destroy themselves and whatever way he can aid to that goal.

 

I love

1. The sheer stupidity of telling that lie with cameras there and
2. The aides stepping in at the precise moment the citizen catches BoJo with a devastating metaphorical right cross to the jaw.

 

I've been watching that over the past couple of days and, at some points, the guys seemed to imply he did accept it was justiciable under certain circumstances. But I thought he was saying that it was a matter of interpretation as to whether the court could involve itself in any specific situation and, in this case, the evidence didn't prove that the government was acting outside it's powers.

The thing is, from what I've seen, the evidence DOES show that Johnson intended all along to shut parliament down, regardless of whether he had cause.

Also, this argument, (that he was also using), that the proper remedy is in the political arena and that parliament had had an opportunity to call an election, (by having a vote of no confidence, say), or to remove Johnson as PM and replace him with Jezza or someone else, rather ignores the fact that parliament doesn't JUST do those things. It has many other functions including debate in the chamber, various committees, etc. etc. all of which hold the government to account. A parliament that JUST slung out the present executive or called another election would be completely ineffective and a waste of space, tbh.

So I can see the argument that it should be assumed that politics should be the first remedy but, if the executive acts in a dishonest manner and specifically tried to avoid scrutiny, the courts should be able to step in... albeit only to say, 'Get back in parliament and sort it out'.

Outside of that, however, I don't like the idea of the courts sticking their noses in... as much as anything because then the parliament will be more inclined to simply change the law so they can't involve themselves. That could lead to all sorts of unforeseen problems.

 

I love the way he's telling the lie... on camera

 

This is as funny as that idiot US embassador telling complete lies to the Dutch press.

 

There are more of them?