Neverending Story 3: The Ongoing Brexit Thread

So, to be clear, in a no-deal scenario which is happening because we want to control, 'our money, our laws and our BORDERS', we WON'T be managing our borders.

Right... Oookkaaayy!!! Got it.

Well, that seems simple enough, doesn't it. What's to worry about.

 

I think you both fundamentally underestimate the intelligence of the people who read this post and fundamentally overestimate your own intelligence.

I would do yourself a favor and read anything on the Troubles and the Good Friday Agreement.

 

For ********s sake it was a peace agreement (mostly) consigned over 20 years ago, people have moved on.

People butchered each other in the Balkan wars and now today there are more inter-marriages happening between Serbs and Croatians than ever before. http://www.ipsnews.net/2006/06/balkans-mixed-marriages-on-rise-again/

 

I'm not suggesting that - I'm saying that its better to talk to experts on the ground about what arrangments can be made whether its referring to trade or security.

But to pretend that its this unworkable problem that cant' be hashed-out over time is simply playing into fear tactics.

 

It flatly contradicts the stated requirement of controlling our borders is the point.

Well... that and the fact he's talking shite anyway. In the event of a no-deal scenario you obviously won't be able to move stuff back and forth and do the checks 'six months later'. That's complete bollocks.

 

Again you should probably stop overestimating your own intelligence and underestimating the thousands of people who independently think the opposite way you do.

 

Respectfully, I would never accuse you of not thinking 'independently' but I might infer that your points are unoriginal - everything you've posted is virtually indistinguishable from the average Guardian headline.

I'm not suggesting that I'm original in my points either but at least I sympathize with Brexiters unlike people in this thread who are keen to endlessly lampoon anyone who has a contradictory opinion to their own.

 

Why do we rely on big brother government to control borders and sign peace treaties?

I think we have found the pluperfect exemplar of stoned sophomore libertarianism.

 

Well, who doesn't!!!

I'm still a bit confused by the description of this guy as the 'person who used to run the customs terminal at the port of dover'. I mean, what does that actually mean? The customs terminal isn't 'run' by a single individual who, like a king, can simply deem a particular method is used for ALL movement. That sort of decision is made by the government.

Also, he says, in the event of a no-deal scenario the declaration won't have to be done for six months AFTER the goods have come in.

Well, by definition, in the event of a no-deal scenario we won't KNOW what system will be in place because we haven't actually GOT a no-deal environment and won't have one unless we have 'no-deal'. I mean, the clue's in the fecking name for gods sake.

Movement through customs operates on the basis of agreement and a fairly high degree of trust between trading nations so, for example, when documents are lodged with a port or airport they'll trust that the state, (NOT just the shipper), on the other end of the deal will try and ensure the information supplied is accurate. The state will do that because they want to ensure goods are moved easily and their exports will be profitable for their manufacturers.

No-deal means that the people on the other end of the issue CAN'T necessarily rely on that information so, logically, they'll be inclined try and ensure that what's on the documents is what's described.

I think the plain truth is that, for the above reasons, nobody knows what's going to happen.

It might be that the EU will simply wave things through and that we'll do the same but then, as I say, what's all this crap about 'controlling our borders'?

I spent the years from the early 70's to the mid 80's in the shipping and transport business, including running ships to/from the USA, the Indian sub-continent and running wagons back and forth from the continent so I think I know as much about this stuff as most people and NOTHING that guy says makes sense.

I would imagine he's some minor functionary who simply doesn't understand exactly what happens and this is an example of the guy on the security gate who thinks he runs the place. Well, that and he's just lying... that's the other point.

 

TBH even in those terms he's talking bollocks anyway. I'd imagine he's been told about the no-deal planning by the government, (all this 'pop-up' check nonsense), but whether you check at the port or before it arrives you STILL have to be able to confirm that the shipment is as described.

How is that going to happen if it started transit 100+ miles away. Cargo terminals have security of some sort for precisely that reason

As to the idea that we'll simply ignore any and all checks on goods entering the country... leaving aside the obvious question, ('then what's the point'), how does that help goods being exported?

Of course, that is forgetting about the fact that many businesses simply don't work economically if you have the tariffs applied under most assumptions.

Like I say, this is all based on goodwill and trust between governments. That is obviously under strain, to put it mildly, in the event of no deal.

 

What's this? Trouble in paradise?

Brexit referendum didn't deliver the outcome many of us hoped for

But you can't pretend the result didn't happen. LibDems are doing just that

You can't turn back the clock.
Nor ignore the 17m who voted Leave

This doesn't strengthen our democracy. It further imperils it https://t.co/5C5XfMnjqm

— Caroline Lucas (@CarolineLucas) September 16, 2019

 

Well, he probably was not making things up when he said that his subordinates told him “sir, we’re seeing too many undeclared pallets of platypus pellets arriving from Papua”

 

Oh you're right how silly of me - I should be listening to experts like Alastair Campbell and the CBI.

Afterall they were dead on about Britain needing to fully adopt the Euro and ridding themselves of the worthless pound sterling just like so many other things.

Oh what am I saying, we should be asking the all-knowing head priest Mark Carney about all this trade business. Surely he would know what to do - forget the fact that he basically destroyed what was left of Canadian manufacturing in his wake by letting the Canadian dollar do whatever it wanted which has led to arguably the biggest housing bubble in the Western world.

I better subscribe to the Guardian so I can figure out what's really going on - thanks for reminding me.

 

The "controlling borders" hard-stance almost explicitly deals with the immigration issue from what I understand.

With regards to trade - If you have experience in the industry then may I ask: would it be unreasonable to assume that in a no-deal Brexit situation that a box of frozen lamb chops being exported to the continent from an existing butcher that was already identified in the previous system - under WTO rules (or whatever) - would be received with the assumption that the packaging was up to code and that the buyer would only need to produce an extra import form or something like that?

What I'm getting at is, is it so unreasonable to imagine business continuing as usual in some form or another based mostly on the reality that adding extra checks-and-balances would not only ruin flow of trade but would also be totally unnecessary?

 

As the Russians tell Frances McDormand...this is drivel.

 

Our problem is more fundamental. This poster is unaware that imports/exports is more than just scanning packages in a warehouse.