Neverending Story 3: The Ongoing Brexit Thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by The Biscuitman, Feb 20, 2016.

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  1. jmartin1966

    jmartin1966 Member+

    Jun 13, 2004
    Chicago
    so has this been sorted yet?
     
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  2. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    In a word, no!
     
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  3. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]
     
  4. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I spoke to hundreds of Obama voters every month in Florida and Ohio during the 2008 and 2012 elections and I never thought that those experiences were more valid than public opinion polling.

    Sorry, that didn't come across as condescending as I meant it. Give me half an hour to work up my energy and I'll really do it justice.
     
  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Again I don't think they are "more valid" than polling.

    e.g in the buildup to 2017, I remember Labour had some dreadful doorstep stories coming thru. But the fears turned out to be largely unfounded.

    If we go back to what I actually posted, I simply said NM offers insights into whats going on in active grass roots campaigning in the midlands. e.g some specific confirmation that focussing on services/NHS type stuff works. I don't think it holds any water in terms of how Corbyn is perceived in Surrey Hills or Hull.
     
  6. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Does he? What does he offer that an op/ed in the Guardian doesn't?
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I think you are being overly emotional about this.

    Like I said, I disagree with my Dad over lots of Labour tactics and messaging - but the thing he has that I don't have is that over multiple campaigns, he doorstepped 1000s of voters in working class Christchurch. Of course its coloured by his own prejudices and beliefs. But he does have insights you don't get from Op Ed.

    For instance why was the big strategy about Tory corruption in the city not leading to votes? From polling Labour knew the Tory mayor was popular because he had been on TV a lot. But why was he still popular when he was a crook?

    Going door to door showed people simply weren't aware of the details despite significant media coverage.

    When you've worked specific neighbourhoods for years you get a level of insight about those communities that you don't get only from polling or Op Ed. But you are reaching a point where the team have spoken to virtually every potential Labour household in the district.
     
  8. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's been fascinating to read is that this entire time I have said "no, let's focus on the data and not our experiences" while NM has been very good at bringing his emotions.

    But I'm the one being overly emotional.

    Fascinating.
     
  9. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What's been overly emotional has been your reaction to NM's posts.
     
  10. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Pointing out that the polling numbers weren't reflected in the 2017 GE when we put ON 3.5m votes, (particularly at a time when there was constant coverage of Corbyn's alleged 'antisemitism), isn't 'emotion'. Pointing out that the drop in the polls around the formation of the ChangeUK party were probably more connected precisely TO the formation of that party as another political option for the voters and not necessarily any alleged reason for it's formation, isn't 'emotion'.

    The evidence is contradictory, isn't it... that's the point.

    However, I shouldn't have called into question your objectivity. I realise you were simply raising contrary data and should have just accepted it as such, That was uncalled for and didn't help the debate so, sorry :(

    Regarding the future, I honestly don't know what will happen in the future. It might be that we've passed 'peak Corbyn'. That's obviously a possibility. We'll just have to see I suppose.
     
  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I used to fight with NM 10 years ago - I know how it is :laugh:
     
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  12. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Then put all this Brexit crap aside for a moment. Have you booked your travel for the finals in Ubekibekibekistan yet. What tickets there are for the match can be had for a mere 5k or so. Oh...and there's only 1 flight a week or you can take a 4 day train trip unless you prefer a 59 hr drive. :coffee:

    Ps...Another option would be to drop Chelsea and adopt a team that's just been relegated! :p
     
  13. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    FYP ;)
     
  14. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Farage interviewed on the BBC...



    Essentially, it's this.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    The kid in the ambulance....

    <iframe width="683" height="512" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Lvlt3Uyoli0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  16. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  17. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Brexit party seems to be drawing from both the Conservative and Labour parties.
     
  18. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
  19. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    People answers are coloured by their intended votes in the euro elections, (which the majority of people don't vote in), due in less than a week.
     
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The new party that is shooting up, is that the splinter group from the big 2 or the new Brexit party?

    Edit: Nevermind, I checked it is the new Brexit party.

    And UKIP.
     
  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Of course the future of this party is strange if Brexit then happens later in the year
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    It basically is the new UKIP, and is polling lower than UKIP was back in the day

    UKIP basically got reabsorbed by the Tories in 2017
     
  23. Yoshou

    Yoshou Fan of the CCL Champ

    May 12, 2009
    Seattle
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Very true. But they are largely riding the wave of the European Parliament elections right now and Leavers are flocking to them to voice their disapproval for the Conservatives and, to a lesser degree, Labours failure to actually leave the EU. Once the EU elections are done, I would expect their support to start to drop since they don't really have any other policy stances.
     
  24. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Probably the more critical story is that May is now going to be rolled - likely by BOJO

    In his letter today ending negotiations, Corbyn correctly pointed out that May could not command her own party, and thus was unlikely to be able to deliver on a negotiated solution

    BOJO claims he will go back to the EU to negotiate a new WTA - LOL

    One obvious point is he won't make the same mistakes as Maybot already made and will drop her deal like a hot potato - but where does that leave him?

    I don't get the feeling BOJO is very committed to Brexit - it is all about himself. So perhaps he will use his political capital to try to break out of the current paradigm?

    Otherwise he is stuck with no deal same as before.
     

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