Neverending Story 3: The Ongoing Brexit Thread

You dont read newspapers above the level of the NY post do you

 

#ER

So @theresa_may got a an absolute kicking tonight.

She made her pitch to the the EU leaders and they basically said no.

Compare and contrast. Ugly. #Brexit pic.twitter.com/5Z9xS0blIc

— Peter Foster (@pmdfoster) December 13, 2018

 

"Fog in Channel; Monkey Island Cut Off"

NEW - Two expert lipreaders tell 5 News that Theresa May accuses Jean-Claude Juncker of describing her as nebulous.

This is how the conversation went, according to the lipreaders: pic.twitter.com/IuP99fJiXG

— Channel 5 News (@5_News) December 14, 2018

 

To vote on the leave terms.

 

Either that or a 60% or greater thershold to enact a major social and economic change.

 

Well, it was exactly what Jacob Rees-Mogg advocated a few years back. A referendum on whether to leave and then a referendum on the terms of leaving. Something he just lies about now, but was called out on by Caroline Lucas on the C4 debate.

 

Leave terms will be whatever the UK can get the EU to agree to and whatever the voters vote for has little bearing on that. Does someone decide whether an agreement agreed to comes close enough to some leave term language on a voter referendum?

 

Any referendum only has 2 or perhaps 3 choices.

1. Take the deal that the EU gives.

2. No deal Brexit.

3. tell the EU that we were just playing, if the EU says fvck off then please choose between of #1 or #2.

 

There will be no "no deal" in any shape whatsoever. Any UK government would rather revoke article 50 before it comes to complete self-destruction. The EU knows it. May knows it. Corbyn knows it. Everyone knows the other side(s) know it. Speaking of no deal is only for negotiation tactics and for pondering to Tory ERGs and .

1. Accept EU deal (and Irish backstop)

2. Decline EU deal and implement Norway plus

3. Take back article 50 and remain in the EU

These are the 3 options too that will be written on a second referendum ballot after the EU deal will inevitably get rejected in the house of commons.

 

Luxembourg PM throwing shades..... F**** love it..

PM of Luxembourg @Xavier_Bettel is a real G 😎pic.twitter.com/UjxjKSbYTe

— Bruno Zupan (@komacore) December 14, 2018

 

lmao when visiting the continent suddenly costs 7 euros

Yes #ETIAS will apply to the #UK as 3rd country post-Brexit - 7 euros for a 3 year pre-travel authorisation. Simple form, like #ESTA to the US, but way cheaper. #Brexit #EUCO

— Natasha Bertaud (@NatashaBertaud) December 13, 2018

 

I've got the german prat on ignore, (as he's gone off the rails again lately ), so I thought you were replying to me in your previous response.

But, yeah... that's what should have been done. Unfortunately the pig-fecker wanted to present a binary choice with what he thought he could present as one option that was completely unpalatable. Unfortunately he rather forget the fact that he was the same person that had been telling us for 6 years that our lives were getting better and better and we should be grateful for all the terrific work he'd done. Turns out people felt different so didn't believe him.

 

Next German tradition to be copied by them Brits after the "Christmas tree" n all the other stuff. Invoice is in the mail

Beloved Freddie Frinton skit to air on UK TV for first time
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...dinner-for-one-to-air-on-uk-tv-for-first-time

 

Well, it's the same in reverse as well, don't forget. Obviously if they said we must give up our first born or all call ourselves 'Susan' we'd say feck off.

Fact is they've already presented us with an option list with various models of cooperation based on the various agreements already in place with other countries. These were set out by Barnier last year...





If we voted to leave and trade on WTO terms that's what would happen regardless of what the EU says because of their membership of the WTO. Well, unless they're going to leave the WTO I suppose

This is the problem and has been the problem with the negotiations from the very start. May has tried to negotiate a deal, (on her own, with ZERO input from the rest of the country), which stressed the things SHE thought were important. But the thing is she's never had a mandate from the rest of us and some of the things she's chosen, most people don't give a rat's arse about.

I mean, 'regulatory alignment of vacuum cleaner models'??? Who GIVES a shit?!?!?!

Even the 'so-called' Freedom Of Movement isn't a reality because people have to be in employment within 3 months of moving to a new country and that's the same across the ENTIRE continent. There have been Brits thrown out of places like Belgium because they didn't get a job quick enough.

If we'd had a discussion first before doing the A50 thingie we'd have probably come to some sort of Norway/Switzerland model and we could have said that's what we want with the alternative, if they didn't want to give us that, being the FTA like South Korea, Canada and now Japan. The details would have been continued access to our waters for fishing, (which the French and Spanish use a lot), and the difference in contributions. I mean, obviously, the Canucks don't pay to get access to the EU markets, do they.

It could have been relatively simple, but...

 

BTW, while I think about it...

Yes. The UK parliament or, if they can't agree, people are saying it HAS to go back to the people. Thus the debate about the question(s) asked at that point.

 

Barwell delivering the perfect assist for a stab in the back conspiracy

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...inister-Chief-Staff-plotting-second-vote.html

 

German humour contrary to British humour is not creative enough for making the same joke about "noise" 5 times in a row

Brexit is a game where 66 million people kick themselves about for 2.5 years and in the end Britain wins the Golden Dumbass award. https://t.co/RcqlqfnuBp

— Gary Lineker (@GaryLineker) December 16, 2018

 

Turns out parliament might have to be involved...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46584654

If Theresa May's Brexit deal isn't passed by MPs, then Parliament might have to decide what to do next, cabinet minister Liam Fox has said.

The senior Brexiteer said the PM's deal was unlikely to pass through Parliament unless the backstop issue was resolved.

He said one option could be a "free vote" for MPs.​

Who'd have thought!

One option being widely suggested is another referendum - but Mr Fox told the Andrew Marr Show this was unlikely and would not "heal division".​

As opposed to how totally united we are, atm presumably.

Anyway, that's just crazy talk. I mean, you can't ask people what they think about something as otherwise you're not respecting the people's opinion when we... er... ask them what they think

Hmm... yeah. Didn't really think that through, did we

 

An interesting discussing between 2 MP's about how we move forward now...

 

If there are two things the world can learn from this (and Trump to be honest) they are,
Never protest vote.
Never assume that a candidate or ballot question is so dumb that it can never pass.

 

In general, I agree but, as the EU's graphic of the available models shows, there are 7 different 'models' of working together ranging from staying in at one end to a FTA deal like Canada, s. Korea and now Japan and that's without going for WTO deal. If we'd sorted out our priorities first this all could have been relatively painless.

I mean, still pretty dumb, (as we're not in a lot of the EU's stuff anyway which folks outside the situation probably don't know), so what's the point but, y'know... relatively straightforward. As it is we've managed to dick around for the time available and NOW we'll have to rush around trying to cobble something together.

 

There is plenty of other fault to go around including the Tory's decision to call the original Brexit vote and the fact that the British political system allows such a major change based on the vote of a simple majority of the vote instead of a super majority.

 

That's another interesting point and it comes back to one of the basic differences between our version of a FPTP system and most European electoral systems which are PR of one flavour or another.

Continental Europeans are used to voting for one lot on the basis they'll be balanced out by the 'other' lot' so it won't be too extreme. IOW they're USED to having coalitions and compromises in a way we're not.

We're used to our votes meaning something in a very direct manner. That's why tactical voting is a big thing over here. If people WANT to vote, say, communist over there they can do. We can't in any real sense.

Well, you CAN, obviously, but everyone realises it's a wasted vote.

That's why a referendum is particularly problematic for us. We're not used to having to balance those sorts of considerations in that manner.

It's also why 'triangulation' is such a big thing in British politics because BOTH the political parties are coalitions in a way that European parties aren't. I mean, they ARE to an extent but not the same extent ours are.

 

Or mainland voters are just a little more clever than the average Brit voter.