Netherlands vs Spain, WC Group Game nr. 1/3.

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by DRB300, Jun 13, 2014.

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How will this match end?

  1. A big win for Spain (3 goal difference).

    2 vote(s)
    11.8%
  2. A small win for Spain.

    1 vote(s)
    5.9%
  3. A draw.

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  4. A small win for Netherlands.

    3 vote(s)
    17.6%
  5. A big win for the Netherlands (3 goal difference).

    8 vote(s)
    47.1%
  1. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It says Telegraaf has clocked his speed. Maybe a different method of measuring? Results can be vastly different if you take the top speed over 30 meters, 20 meters or 10 meters. However then I am curious to see the list of results from other players with that same method. Here is a list that does not only filter on international matches:

    1. POR Cristiano Ronaldo: 10.9m/s (24.4mph, 39.2km/h) 2011
    2. FRA Thierry Henry: 10.9m/s (24.4mph, 39.2km/h) 1998
    3. NED Arjen Robben: 10.5m/s (23.5mph, 37.8km/h) 2012
    4. POR Cristiano Ronaldo: 10.4m/s (23.3mph, 37.5km/h) 2010
    5. ENG Theo Walcott: 10.4m/s (23.3mph, 37.5km/h) 2010
    6. ENG Theo Walcott: 10.4m/s (23.3mph, 37.5km/h) 2011
    7. ENG Gabriel Agbonlahor: 10.4m/s (23.3mph, 37.5km/h) 2009
    8. WAL Gareth Bale: 10.2m/s (22.9mph, 36.8km/h) 2010
    9. ENG Aaron Lennon: 10.1m/s (22.6mph, 36.4km/h) 2011
    10. CAM Samuel Eto'o: 10.1m/s (22.6mph, 36.4km/h) 2008
    11. NED Ryan Babel: 10.1m/s (22.6mph, 36.4km/h) 2008
    12. ENG Kyle Walker: 9.9m/s (22.2mph, 35.7km/h) 2012
    13. ENG Aaron Lennon: 9.9m/s (22.2mph, 35.7km/h) 2009
    14. FRA Franck Ribery: 9.7m/s (21.7mph, 35.0km/h) 2006
    15. ENG Wayne Rooney: 9.7m/s (21.7mph, 35.0km/h) 2010
    16. FRA Jonathan Biabiany: 9.7m/s (21.7mph, 35.0km/h) 2010
    17. NIG Obafemi Martins: 9.7m/s (21.7mph, 35.0km/h) 2011
    18. ENG Ashley Young: 9.7m/s (21.7mph, 35.0km/h) 2011
    19. BRA Ronaldo: 9.6m/s (21.4mph, 34.6km/h) 2005
    20. ENG Aaron Lennon: 9.6m/s (21.4mph, 34.6km/h) 2010
    21. ENG Micah Richards: 9.6m/s (21.4mph, 34.6km/h) 2011
    22. ARG Lionel Messi: 9.4m/s (21.1mph, 33.8km/h) 2008
    23. BRA Alexandre Pato: 9.4m/s (21.1mph, 33.8km/h) 2011
    24. ENG Aaron Lennon: 9.4m/s (21.1mph, 33.8km/h) 2010
    25. NED Eljero Elia: 9.4m/s (21.1mph, 33.8km/h) 2009
    26. ENG Kyle Walker: 9.4m/s (21.1mph, 33.8km/h) 2011
    27. ENG Michael Owen: 9.3m/s (20.8mph, 33.5km/h) 1998
    28. NED Arjen Robben: 9.3m/s (20.7mph, 33.3km/h) 2010
    29. ITA Ignazio Abate: 9.2m/s (20.6mph, 33.2km/h) 2008
    30. POL Zbigniew Boniek: 9.2m/s (20.6mph, 33.2km/h) 1984
    31. ECU Joffre Guerron: 9.2m/s (20.5mph, 33.1km/h) 2008
    32. GER David Odonkor: 9.1m/s (21.4mph, 32.8km/h) 2006
    33. FRA Gael Clichy: 9.1m/s (20.4mph, 32.8km/h) 2007


    Link


    My problem with all these stats is how reliable they are. Is the same way of measuring used? Is it done properly? I also want to just see the exact run on a video and a timer in the right corner. Would like Opta (or something similar) taking care of it also.


    Anyway, I do not have to know all these things to see what an amazing run Robben made for the fifth goal. Dwarfed Bale vs Barca for the Cup against Bartra. Why? Because Ramos is a WC defender and Bartra is not. Robben made fun of Spanish defense with that run. He is a once in generation player and we might never see something like him again in an Orange shirt running down the wing.
     
  2. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  3. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    #128 DRB300, Jun 15, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
    sonicdream repped this.
  4. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands


     
  5. sonicdream

    sonicdream Member

    Sep 27, 2002
    West of Suez canal
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    #11 = Ryan Babel.

    Now that was a surprise - to see his name so high on the list
     
  6. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands

    The problem remains that NOS claims that FIFA has made this public while FIFA's official document (my post of the table above) does not support this at all.

    Best to wait this one out.
     
  7. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    I suppose it's easy enough to measure from the TV replay. One can look at how much distance was traveled and measure the time. However, the easier thing to do is to ask the question, is it possible to go this fast with the ball at your feet in the second half of a football match. Let's do the math boys and girls using simple algebra. All we have to do is convert km/hr to something more simple, like the time to run 100 meters. This means we divide 37000 m/hr by 3600 seconds/hr which equals 10.28 seconds. Does anyone think that under these conditions Robben could run a 10.28 100 meters? I don't think so. Robben is one of the fastest players out there but maybe not as fast as Bale.
     
  8. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    @DRB and others: There is no way to reliably measure this and I really think that the table above is just bad science. We have no idea about how things were measured and whether the distance covered was equal in all cases. there are just a lot of players on the list that really are not as fast as being claimed (Eto'o, Henry, Kyle Walker, Rooney, and Micah Richards are all players I've seen and I refuse to believe they are that fast; quick maybe but not fast). Of those listed, Walcott, Ribery, Bale and Ronaldo are all fast; Messi is not.
     
  9. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    that's actually 10.28m/s. Which means he would run the 100 meter in 9.7 seconds, which is even crazier. That said, it may be possible to run that fast without being as fast as Usain Bolt. That's because of the simple fact that 100m dash runners start at 0m/s and run 100 meters. It's possible that someone could run that fast for a short distance, but not be able to maintain if for 100 meters. Do you think Robben could have sprinted that fast for the length of the whole field? Probably not.

    I have no idea if it's actually accurate or not, just saying it's not really fair to say that if he could reach a top speed of whatever, he would run a different distance in record time. A 100m dash winner wont run say, the 400m in four times the time that he ran the 100m.
     
  10. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    All these numbers. It's time for art :):


    [​IMG]



    I see this goal as the Bergkamp 1998 goal in the headers category in the sense of combing absolute beauty with ruthlessness. It runs over of technique. It was the furthest goal scored on the night. Almost from outside the 18 yard box. Was from a cross that started at at the half way line. Knew where his marker was. Knew where the keeper was. Saw the ball coming from far and normally a player would try to control it and try to get a shot off before the CB's come storming in. Then he decides it to use an arcing header to leave Casillas or any keeper that would have stood there without any chance.

    The importance of the goal. The mental boost for Oranje and mental kick to Spain. The timing right before the break. The audacity to do such a thing when your team is behind against the World Champs. How many chances would we normally get after this one? The beauty of the arc. The beauty of the nod with the head to give that ball the right angle and dip. The beauty of the dive after releasing the ball. The energy it created combined with his run to the bench. Importance + beauty + timing + importance and size of the venue. It was against Spain and Casillas looked like he was pinned to the ground. Completely beaten. Never saw it coming.

    It was also perfect as Spain tried to win with a lousy dive from Costa. The wrong kind. RvP showed the proper kind of diving. How cynical can one get to know exactly to use a trailing leg to act like it off balances you by quickly stepping on it? How cynical is that? How much time does your mind gloss over ways of winning that are ugly? RVP's goal was the perfect answer and shows what he has on his mind. To create art. To create history. To do something, that makes kids go outside and try to replicate it. Rediscovering a kind of goal that is sometimes mentioned in the Netherlands as the Beb Bakhuys way of scoring. RVP brought a lost art back to prominence. An arcing diving header no less. One for the books.


    Pure magic.
     
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  11. El Cid

    El Cid Member

    Jul 4, 2006
    DFW, Texas
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And it was the cause of drinks being spilled on at least three continents
     
  12. jim1234

    jim1234 New Member

    Jun 15, 2014
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    congrats from Kharkiv!!!! You've the best team. Welcome back!!!)))
     
  13. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  14. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yes, the Van Persie header will be one of those iconic goals in WC history that everyone talks about for years. It's too bad that his right footed volley hit the bar and didn't go in, if it had that would have made two wonder goals in the same match!
     
    sonicdream repped this.
  15. Simmer

    Simmer Member

    Feyenoord
    Netherlands
    Oct 23, 2009
    Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Yup, and imagine if Robben scored his volley as well.

    What a great match!
     
  16. Orange14

    Orange14 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 27, 2007
    Bethesda, MD
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  17. sonicdream

    sonicdream Member

    Sep 27, 2002
    West of Suez canal
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    #142 sonicdream, Jun 16, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2014
    For a player who's generally considered a weaker option, and not very highly regarded even here by many BS posters, Blind plays a very important role in v Gaal's strategy:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    FIFA's passing & tracking stats from the ESP match suggests that Daley is the busiest Oranje player. He's done admirably on defense, as well as his offensive duties, and seldom ever complaints when tacked wildly by opponents. There's also a tackling stat, but I think there are mistakes on it, because seems like every Dutch player has 4 tackled, 6 unsuccessful. Seems like a typo error, or wild coincidence. If interested, link is here.
     
  18. sonicdream

    sonicdream Member

    Sep 27, 2002
    West of Suez canal
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    The passing distribution chart is not appearing, so linkie link is here
     
  19. Brilliant Dutch

    Brilliant Dutch Member+

    Ajax
    Netherlands
    Oct 14, 2013
    Amsterdam, Holland
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    It looks like we're gonna HAVE to finish 1st in our group if we wanna avoid Brazil and Germany until the final
     
  20. DRB300

    DRB300 Member+

    Sep 21, 2007
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Of course we now go for first placing. Starts with taking Australia super serious. Their men's hockey team just trashed Netherlands in the final with 6-1. Australian footballers might not be as skillful as their hockey counter parts but the Australian sports mentality is second to none in the world. They will bring the fight. They will leave nothing on the pitch and Dutch players might still be on cloud nine.
     
  21. El Cid

    El Cid Member

    Jul 4, 2006
    DFW, Texas
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tim Cahill is a force and a great leader. Australia can be beaten, but you're right, they aren't going to come out and just lay down. Getting that win would be tremendous.
     
  22. TFC Ajax

    TFC Ajax Member+

    Mar 20, 2011
    Greater Toronto Area
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Not surprising that the stats show how effective he was. He was pretty much the engine of the team in this game. It's also not surprising that the stats show how bad De Guzman was. Very few passes, a bad pass completion rate, and a very cold heat map.
     

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