Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June [r]

Dutch Treat · May 18, 2008

What a match to look forward to!

I think the Italians are favorites in this game. They have a well rounded squad and are not really lacking in any department and showed so in the qualifiers. Tough team to beat.
The Dutch have lots of firepower in midfield & attack, but the defense is not up to par. Will they be able to outscore their opponents at the Euro2008?

Netherlands qualifying round :

G W D L F A Pts
12 8 2 2 15 5 26

Italy's qualifying round :

G W D L F A Pts
12 9 2 1 22 9 29

We al know qualifying is what it is, qualifying, but we have some interesting data here.
As I've said earlier, The Italians have a solid team. Topped the group above France & Scotland. Netherlands ended 2nd in their group behind Romania and just one point above Bulgaria.
But looking at the statistics we see that, strangely enough, the Italians conceded more goals ( 9 ) than the Dutch( 5 ) , while the Italians ( 22 ) outscored the Dutch ( 15 ). Still I believe that Italy's main strength is their defense & midfield, and the Netherlands main strengths is their midfield & offense.

I think there's going to be 2 key factors in this game.

1. Is Italy going to be there right from the start? They often start a bit below par, slowly growing into the tournament. Their first game at tournaments often seems to be a cautious one, but this is not a game to do so. If they do, I can see the Dutch take the win. Choosing defense against that much firepower is asking for trouble.

2. Marco van Basten. The Dutch coach has been criticized a lot for his player management, player selection and field tactics. There seems to be a bit of a shift lately, he actually started to listen to the players. Is there still time to change, or will he hold on to his believes and start with a 4-3-3 again? Since Cocu stopped international football, we just can't seem to be playing the 4-3-3 as effective as we used to. If he choses the 4-3-3, I think our midfield disappears as it's too offensive & lightweight, and I can see Italy take the win.

I'm not going to post line-ups, going to wait for the final squads to be announced first.

My prediction for now : 1-1 ( subject to change )

deleted · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

shit, holland only scored 15 goals in 12 games??? I knew we were spoilt with 35 from 12 games but that really is a surprise

Khaloisha · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

Dutch Treat said: ↑

Netherlands qualifying round :

G W D L F A Pts
12 9 2 1 15 5 26

Italy's qualifying round :

G W D L F A Pts
12 9 2 1 22 9 29
Click to expand...

There's something strange here, same win/draw/lose but different points?

johan neeskens · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

I predict a boring 0-0.

Spartak · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

Khaloisha said: ↑

There's something strange here, same win/draw/lose but different points?
Click to expand...

They were actually 8-2-2.

But 15 goals in 12 matches is a shocking total considering they got to play two matches each against Luxembourg, Albania, and Belarus. Actually, Belarus scored more goals than the Netherlands during qualifying. But we all know qualifying means little when the final tournament kicks off. I wouldn't be surprised if Holland explodes at Euro 2008. But I'm gonna stick with my earlier prediction that neither the Dutch or Italians will make it out of this group.

johan neeskens · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

Spartak said: ↑

They were actually 8-2-2.

But 15 goals in 12 matches is a shocking total considering they got to play two matches each against Luxembourg, Albania, and Belarus. Actually, Belarus scored more goals than the Netherlands during qualifying. But we all know qualifying means little when the final tournament kicks off. I wouldn't be surprised if Holland explodes at Euro 2008. But I'm gonna stick with my earlier prediction that neither the Dutch or Italians will make it out of this group.
Click to expand...

I've been trying to tell this forum for years that the Dutch have played ultra-conservative, defensive football under Van Basten's leadership. But he's changed a lot over the past couple of months so who knows.

I'm still going for Italy & the NL to go through.

Massimo_Oddo · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

I think Heitinga/Mathijsen could struggle against Toni, while our defenders are lacking a bit of pace so Robben or RVP could expose them.

Dutch Treat · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

Khaloisha said: ↑

There's something strange here, same win/draw/lose but different points?
Click to expand...

Oops my bad. Damn that copy & paste stuff.

Spartak is right, the Dutch have a 8-2-2 record.

Dutch Treat · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

Massimo_Oddo said: ↑

I think Heitinga/Mathijsen could struggle against Toni, while our defenders are lacking a bit of pace so Robben or RVP could expose them.
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I'm more worried about out RB, that's our weak spot.

Massimo_Oddo · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

Dutch Treat said: ↑

I'm more worried about out RB, that's our weak spot.
Click to expand...

Who's likely to play RB? Melchiot or Ooijer?

Buschkauz · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

italy will underestimate the durch. the dutch will win 2-1.

Dutch Treat · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

Massimo_Oddo said: ↑

Who's likely to play RB? Melchiot or Ooijer?
Click to expand...

Melchiot probably. He's played the last games, but is currently coming back from an injury. Not too convinced about him at RB, though. Then we have Kromkamp, he has something to add offensively, but I don't really consider him a fine RB either.

I think van Basten should have included Zuiverloon. He has had a very good season.

VCFan · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

Spartak said: ↑

They were actually 8-2-2.

But 15 goals in 12 matches is a shocking total considering they got to play two matches each against Luxembourg, Albania, and Belarus. Actually, Belarus scored more goals than the Netherlands during qualifying. But we all know qualifying means little when the final tournament kicks off. I wouldn't be surprised if Holland explodes at Euro 2008. But I'm gonna stick with my earlier prediction that neither the Dutch or Italians will make it out of this group.
Click to expand...

Is this just a hunch? I would hope people would refrain from predicting outlandish group results until AFTER the actual squads have been announced. Don't get me wrong, it's entirely possible that neither Italy nor Holland will make it out of Group C... possible, but not probable, in Italy's case at least. The only way I can see Italy being buried alive in Group C is if they insist upon starting as slowly as they have in past tournaments... but when one considers the awe and trepidation that surrounds this group of death, I honestly don't think Italy has any choice but to start out strong. And they play very, very well when they're backed up into a corner

Spartak · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

VCFan said: ↑

Is this just a hunch? I would hope people would refrain from predicting outlandish group results until AFTER the actual squads have been announced. Don't get me wrong, it's entirely possible that neither Italy nor Holland will make it out of Group C... possible, but not probable, in Italy's case at least. The only way I can see Italy being buried alive in Group C is if they insist upon starting as slowly as they have in past tournaments... but when one considers the awe and trepidation that surrounds this group of death, I honestly don't think Italy has any choice but to start out strong. And they play very, very well when they're backed up into a corner
Click to expand...

No, it's a fact. I don't know why all the bookmakers are even taking bets on this group when all the facts point to France and Romania finishing in the top two. If I were you I'd take all your life savings and place a bet on France and Romania progressing. It's easy money.

Massimo_Oddo · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

Spartak said: ↑

No, it's a fact. I don't know why all the bookmakers are even taking bets on this group when all the facts point to France and Romania finishing in the top two. If I were you I'd take all your life savings and place a bet on France and Romania progressing. It's easy money.

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Really?

where are these facts?

VCFan · May 19, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

He was kidding. Oh well, we'll just have to see, won't we?

johan neeskens · May 20, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

Massimo_Oddo said: ↑

I think Heitinga/Mathijsen could struggle against Toni, while our defenders are lacking a bit of pace so Robben or RVP could expose them.
Click to expand...

Our full backs are mediocre but then again I don't expect Italy to play an adventurous system of football with two wide wingers up front so that shouldn't be that much of a problem. The Italian style of football doesn't suit us though. I've got a feeling that you've got the best track record against us out of all European nations.

Our best quality unfortunately is that even when we play rubbish football we've got a whole bunch of players with the individual quality to score on a whim and out of nowhere. So I predict a lot of 'the Dutch didn't deserve to win that game' posts on this board once the tournament starts.

arthur d · May 20, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

johan neeskens said: ↑

Our best quality unfortunately is that even when we play rubbish football we've got a whole bunch of players with the individual quality to score on a whim and out of nowhere. So I predict a lot of 'the Dutch didn't deserve to win that game' posts on this board once the tournament starts.
Click to expand...

Just wondering, what was the last game NL won although you thought they didn't deserve to? I can't think of one off the top of my head.

deleted · May 20, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

arthur d said: ↑

Just wondering, what was the last game NL won although you thought they didn't deserve to? I can't think of one off the top of my head.
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So what you're saying is NL have not won many games

johan neeskens · May 20, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

arthur d said: ↑

Just wondering, what was the last game NL won although you thought they didn't deserve to? I can't think of one off the top of my head.
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90% of all qualifying games we've played under Van Basten's leadership.

deleted · May 20, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

Holland were ridiculously short on goals in that campaign...what was the most goals scored in a match? Two I'd guess?

arthur d · May 20, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

johan neeskens said: ↑

90% of all qualifying games we've played under Van Basten's leadership.
Click to expand...

Are you seriously saying Holland did not deserve to win against Luxembourg, Belarus, Albania and Slovenia? I can't judge that as I haven't watched these games. You might be in a bit of trouble then....

arthur d · May 20, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

squidward123 said: ↑

Holland were ridiculously short on goals in that campaign...what was the most goals scored in a match? Two I'd guess?
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Three. I just looked this up:

Qualifying round
02/09/06 v Luxembourg (A) 1 - 0
06/09/06 v Belarus (H) 3 - 0
07/10/06 v Bulgaria (A) 1 - 1
11/10/06 v Albania (H) 2 - 1
24/03/07 v Romania (H) 0 - 0
28/03/07 v Slovenia (A) 1 - 0
08/09/07 v Bulgaria (H) 2 - 0
12/09/07 v Albania (A) 1 - 0
13/10/07 v Romania (A) 0 - 1
17/10/07 v Slovenia (H) 2 - 0
17/11/07 v Luxembourg (H) 1 - 0
21/11/07 v Belarus (A) 1 - 2

johan neeskens · May 20, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

arthur d said: ↑

Are you seriously saying Holland did not deserve to win against Luxembourg, Belarus, Albania and Slovenia? I can't judge that as I haven't watched these games. You might be in a bit of trouble then....
Click to expand...

Yes that is what i am seriously saying. Check our goal difference in the last qualifying campaign.

johan neeskens · May 20, 2008

Re: Netherlands vs Italy - Monday 9th June

But like I said, even when we were extremely rubbish, there was always the individual class of one player to save the day.

Oh and Van Basten has completely changed the tactics in recent months btw. We're no longer playing a 4-3-3, the whole team now evolves around Sneijder's free role. Which led us easily past Croatia recently.