Nationalism on the march, can Liberalism cope?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by ceezmad, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Obviously Russia, Turkey, the USA, China have strong nationalist governments.

    There are others, Hungary, Poland (they are weird not really stereotypical nationalist), Austria, Italy in coalition with populist lefties.

    And next possibly Sweden.

    https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Sweden-faces-historic-upset-in-election-13165389.php
     
  2. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
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    Chicago Red Stars
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    United States
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018...-jay-nordlingers-impromptus-february-20-2018/
     
  3. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
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    DC United
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    United States
  4. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
  5. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Absolutely. Fundamentalist Hindu is in, globalist is out. One Indian state recently became the legal guardian of the cow.

    Buncha children. My cow is better than your Jesus, my Jesus is better than your Viking, my Viking is better than your bear, my bear is better than your Ottomans. God Lord, it's so boring.
     
  7. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    United States
    I'm not so sure "liberalism" (broadly define) can cope, unless liberals manage to address the human need for community and belonging.
     
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  8. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Ahh. The market will provide those needs.
     
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  9. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    Oh, yeah--that's working out great.
     
  10. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
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    United States
    Well there is a market for religion right.
     
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  11. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    United States
    Yeah, and as traditional denominations continue to decline, I suspect that fundamentalist, non-denominational churches that cater to believers as spiritual consumers will increasingly dominate religion.
     
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  12. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Arsenal
    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Suspect?

    That is what's going on already, right now.
     
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  13. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Was flipping channels, got stuck with Joel Osteen for 10 seconds, and he was talking about how you shouldn't feel guilty about trying to get rich. Anybody surprised?

    And, to answer the question, those are not Christians. They are Prosperity Worshippers pretending to be another religion. Don't tell me that I can't judge who is a Christian. I can, I have read every word of the New Testament. They are not Christians.
     
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  14. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
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  15. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    OT, but wandering into this silly thread I feel a lot like you with your remote... stuck for 10 seconds. Disregard the charlatan Joel Osteen, but his question has merit. Why should we feel guilty for trying to get rich?
     
  16. El Naranja

    El Naranja Member+

    Sep 5, 2006
    Alief
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    Houston Dynamo
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    Because it has a tendency to screw over the very people you're supposed to be taking care of, as a Christian.

    You know...like Joel did about a year ago.

    What a tool.
     
  17. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    That's what getting rich means to you? I look at a company like Apple, two guys in a garage taking a chance and bringing a product to the world that makes it a better place. And then when you are rich you can give back and make the world an even better place.

    I guess that is the difference between you and me.
     
  18. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Anybody who can't figure out by the end of Joel's first sentence that he's a fraud is a sheep to be slaughtered.
     
  19. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    You can tell simply by looking at his smile, but you didn't answer the question.
     
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
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    Chicago Red Stars
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    Anocracy, I LOL in Spanish.
     
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  21. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well I did qualify that with "increasingly."
     
  22. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You like your anocracies wide open, or closed tight?
     
  23. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Arsenal
    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I don't really care overall, but "trying to get rich" is at it's heart, anti-Christian.

    Wanting to get rich is human nature, and there's nothing wrong with this per se. Heck, loving our children is basic human nature, but Christianity actually calls upon us to shed our human nature in an effort to be able to get closer to God. Seeking wealth usually puts us directly in conflict with seeking God which is why when a rich man asked Jesus how he could follow him, and was unwilling to give it all away, Christ said that it was harder for a rich man to enter heaven than it was to get a camel through the eye of a needle.

    When Jesus, after instructing his listeners that there were really only two Commandments to concentrate on and one of them was to love your neighbor as yourself and was then asked what is a neighbor, he told the parable of the Good Samaritan. We all know that parable, but what is often lost at the end of the telling is that after binding the victim's wounds and taking him to an inn, the Samaritan then paid his bills for his care. This tends to get glossed over because we want to only see the "saint" who rescues the wounded man because we're not confronted very often with a wounded guy. But we are confronted all the time with the poor "other" whose bills we just ought to pay.

    I've heard a lot of preaching on the Prosperity Gospel in my time, but never once have I heard about the voluntary payment of our neighbors' bills.

    Lots of times we'll see the verse "Money is the root of all evil" tossed about, but it's more pernicious than that. The verse is actually "the love of money is the root of all evil".

    Wanting to get rich is contrary to scripture. It just is. So you say a couple of guys from Apple got rich and gave money away. Good for them, especially if they gave away 10%. But most rich people out there, apart from the JK Rowlings and Bill Gates of the world aren't giving away anything close to that. They hoard because it is human nature to, when you have more money than is imaginable, to want even more. They missed the boat on the message of scripture, and for Christians that leads only one place.
     
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  24. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    This is probably a bad time to point out this board once chastised Bill Gates for accumulated mass wealth and not giving back. Now he is a hero.
     

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