With the Scorpions jumping ship and the last few expansions in the NASL not looking very high standard. The USL looks overall better to me. If the 29 USL +12 NASL clubs joined together you could have a 40 team league with 4 x 10 team conferences (Assuming one team folds or join's MLS without having a USL reserve team). Lower cost's for everyone due to lower traveling cost's. It would mean Div 1 has 24 with 2 conferences and Div 2 has 40 with 4 conferences.
A merger is highly unlikely because the principles of the leagues are very different. NASL is trying to be a competitive league first and foremost, and has ambitions to be a co-first division with MLS. USL has accepted a minor league affiliation-like status with MLS. Many of their teams are MLS B teams. There are scenarios in which USL teams could defect to NASL, and NASL teams could defect to USL. Most recently we have seen San Antonio as a market move to USL, though technically not a defection since the Scorpions are effectively out of business (at least for now) and it is a new club under new ownership. Some NASL teams could jump to USL if their owners want to go to MLS and think it is a lower cost way of operating while getting in MLS's good graces (maybe Carolina's new owner would do this). Some independent USL teams could jump to NASL if they feel boxed out of MLS but have greater ambitions than what USL will offer them (Arizona has been rumored to have flirted with this jump).
What happens to division three in USA? NPSL and PDL are not professional and cannot fill the gap. A merger may happen in one of two ways. If USL goes for Div2, it would only be the ind. owned teams not all 29 teams. Option 1) Group of USL O&O teams ask/force NASL to merge with them to create a bigger Div2. > Merger happens; div3 is weakened in USA Option 2) Group of USL O&O teams form their own Div2 excluding the reserve teams (most) currently in the USL > two different div2 leagues in competition with each other and a very weak div3 Both of these options suck. For fanboys of either league less so then for soccer in general. Even though both leagues have aspiration for higher potential, some owners/cities need to recognize reality. Pragmatically, competition amongst leagues to hold multiple levels of the pyramid is ridiculous, and without pro/rel it does not make sense. Alternate possibility: Some USL & NASL teams get to MLS, the remainders form a healthy Div2 and the current div3 continues to thrive in USA. NB. I am by no means an advocate for pro/rel. At the same time I do not have a problem with teams moving between leagues based on their own interests and ability to do so. Yet I do have a problem with the idea that whole leagues can promote themselves up a division (whether it be USL or NASL) just because they think its the right thing to do.
I seriously doubt that the USL ever becomes entirely D2 even if USL is awarded D2 status. This is mainly because there are still quite a few USL clubs (including independent clubs) that don't have the funds to compete at D2 level. Instead, what I see is the USL splitting into D2 and D3 leagues, both under the USL umbrella. At that point, the USL becomes an integrated lower league system covering divisions 2 through 4. Merging with the NASL would likely speed up the process. What we'd end up with is not a 40+ team D2 league, but something like a 16 team D2 league and a 30 team D3 league. (I'm assuming at this point that MLS will continue to create new reserve teams.)
Yes I think its about time for a merger. Wish they would have found a way to work things out 5 years ago when the split initially occurred ...
I wouldn't want my team playing against MLS reserve teams. I would be OK with NASL reserve teams playing in USL though. Cosmos B need better competition than the NPSL gave them last year.
Ummm, not so much Playing in a league that's basically at the same competitive level as the parent team isn't going to help develop Cosmos B. Unless they are that good, which I doubt. Cosmos B is not = to MLS B teams. Sorry. Maybe the Rayo B team will be better
I'd be actually for this considering that I'm not as optimistic with the NASL's future than I am with the USL's. I mean, at one point, the USL was trying to be different by having a bunch of Puerto Rico teams and a club in Antigua, but ever since they accepted being the "minor league" of MLS, they have had some prosperity, although some clubs (like the Austin Aztex) have fallen apart, but that's the nature of the beast in minor league sports. The NASL, on the other hand, has delusions of grandeur. Bill Peterson wants the NASL to fight MLS and be an alternative to MLS, when in reality, several of the markets would be MLS worthy, while others wouldn't, not to mention that he already has 2 bad expansion attempts blow up in his face (Virginia Cavalry & OKC FC) and 2 shaky expansions (Rayo OKC and Puerto Rico FC). I'm not trying to say NASL sucks or anything of that nature, because my club is part of them, but unless Peterson shifts gears and instead of viewing windmills as giants, he does his best to make the NASL the best it can be while fulfilling basic USSF standards (something else USL is excelling at while NASL stupors), I have to question the longevity of the league. Let's think... where will the two leagues be five years from now? The USL's only drawback is the current format of having MLS B-teams playing original clubs, which in some ways mirrored the original dream of the Arena Football League/af2 merger (which, after one year, saw the death of all but 2 af2 teams that made the merger), and each year, you could see a club go from USL to the unregulated PDL (which still is the Wild West of soccer leagues in the West, based off of the one year the Indiana Blast were dumped back there) like the Dayton Dutch Lions due to resource problems. Though it seems that aside from your Charlotte Eagles and Daytons that can't keep up or your Austins that are too inept to exist, the USL has a brighter upside. Meanwhile, the NASL hasn't been developing, and on top of that, they are in a position to lose more teams than they can add, with the losses of San Antonio & eventually Minnesota, the unresolved issues with Atlanta, and the potential turf war between Miami FC & Miami Whenever We Actually Get Our Act Together FC MLS clubs. Again, not glorifying one league over the other, but the outlooks are different.
I have to disagree with the "in position to lose more than they can add" argument. If you're going to say they're going to lose teams like San Antonion, Minnesota, Atlanta, and Miami then you have to look at the clubs they are adding or looking like they will add them like San Francisco, Las Vegas, Chicago, Orange County etc. Even I don't think we'll lose Atlanta, Peterson said investors have inquired about moving them but he doesn't want to do that, if they are about to fold then he'll just move them.
The Cosmos, Tampa Bay Rowdies and Miami FC would never go for a merger with USL, playing in a league with MLS2 teams. I doubt Ottawa, Fort Lauderdale, Edmonton, Jacksonville and Indy would either. Carolina might. The way it would be conceivable is if the MLS2 teams left and re-formed the reserve league making this combined league unaffiliated with MLS on a league basis though individual, independent clubs could make whatever arrangements they want. My example about Cosmos B joining USL was facetious. That being said Cosmos B featured 2 former MLS players and other talented players. They completely manhandled NPSL. I doubt they would have been the worst team in USL. Even if they were I would rather them be challenged in USL than crushing NPSL. For the OP who is a Cork City fan, what you are suggesting is only slightly more likely than a merger of the League of Ireland and Irish League, the development of a Celtic Premier League featuring teams from Ireland, N. Ireland, Scotland and Wales or the resurrection of Belfast Celtic to play in the LOI on a similar waiver to Derry City. All of the above would be awesome, none are likely to happen.
Since the USL/NASL split in 2010, has there ever been any discussion of a league merger or even talks of both leagues working together? Just curious....
I believe all of the NASL owners have been replaced/upgraded since 2010 but the philosophies of the leagues remain at odds. I could see some type of rapprochement in the future. If NASL succeeds at what they are trying to do, they will need a place for their reserve squads. That means either re-creating the MLS/USL situation with an upgraded tier of NPSL (a mix of elite, up and coming NPSL clubs and NASL reserves) or you could just have the NASL2 teams join the MLS2 teams in USL. If NASL fails, the remaining clubs will need a place to play and may try to join USL. In the interim, I could see a few teams swapping leagues in either direction if they get new ownership that prefers the philosophy of the other league, such as what just happened with San Antonio and the Spurs buyout.
True, but at this juncture, it's just speculation, as opposed to them presenting new and potential clients to add and broaden the NASL's horizons. Yeah, it'd be awesome for them to go to these places, but right now, I'm skeptical because I'm not actually seeing these things yet.
if NASL is successful at protecting its tier 2 status, then I can see MLS and NASL working more closely in the developmental stages much like MLB and the farm system.
So what you're saying is that you can see a world where the MLS/USL reserve sides join the NASL? <-What happens to the USL then?
MLS wanted to work with the NASL to do something like that before I believe. The NASL said no, they don't want to become a farm league they have higher aspirations than that.
No, I'm not saying that at all. USL continues to exist and thrives alongside MLS. What NASL has to figure out is how to coexist with this hierarchy in place. Best case for them is to become like the USL and be a reserve league for MLS. At whatever level they choose. Actually the more I think about it I don't see the NASL surviving as is. At one point perhaps they had aspirations of competing with MLS, but that ship has sailed. It may take a decade to get it all sorted out, but eventually, they will merge with USL and then we may see two levels from that.
MLS already had a reserve league, and that didn't work out at all. It failed miserably. So they went out and made a deal with the USL to put their reserve teams against other minor league teams. Attendances for some reserve squads have gone up in places where others remain the same. In response to this arrangement the USSF has placed restrictions on reserve team's ability to compete in the USOC. NASL denied a reserve team relationship with MLS, has no restrictions for the USOC. So there is that. NASL teams are putting their reserve squads in other leagues (yes plural) and continue to have no restrictions for the USOC. "hierarchy in place" <- seems to be there already; USSF has given guidelines. "Best case is to become... a reserve league for MLS....At whatever level they choose." <- Too much going on here to even address. Eventually they will merge with USL and then two levels from that? Except there already is two levels below the MLS: NASL and USL. I do think the idea that NASL will compete with the MLS is not quite sane, but it appears you are suffering the same delusions of grandeur in regards to the USL competing with the NASL. Yes there are some teams in the USL who probably should be competing in div2, but they are not. They are quite happy where they are. Some USL teams have aspirations for MLS, and some will get that some will not. The only reason there is a discussion about a possible merger is because MLS will not let every market into its structure; it has earned the right to decide that as well. the stronger teams of the USL who do not get let in will want to compete at Div2 eventually. Maybe that will be in USL or maybe in NASL, but thats where the merger makes sense. The thing is MLS wants to keeps its reserve league healthy and it needs someone like the USL to keep it shiny and pass it off as something marketable. Teams like Rochester who have set out to be the best Div3 team in America may not always be there for the reserve league in the future. I do see a merger in the future. Its hard for me to fathom a healthy Div3 in USA after that though.
I do not think the NASL's business concept is viable. However, in the distant future, (say 10 years) I see MLS with 30 to 32 teams. This may be analogous to a merger, but none the less the attitude of NASL as a viable second league will be dead. Surviving this upstart will be a strong NASL as the second division with working relationships with both MLS and USL with players contractually moving up and down.
The NASL as a first division league is vain and over ambitious. it is ludicrous and insane. MLS has a fifteen-year head start on the NASL, boasts deeper pocket books, and employs some of America’s best players MLS is also cherry picking the best NASL markets. In 10 years the NASL as we know it will now longer exist.
We shall see. You could say MLS is vain, over ambitious, ludicrous and insane for striving to be one of the top leagues in the world. The EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga and Serie A have almost a century head start and much much deeper pockets. MLS should still try. NASL's goal is to be a D1 league in the USA and Canada. It's an aggressive goal for the 5 year old league, especially since the USSF is tied in closely with MLS through SUM. But you set aggressive goals if you are ambitious. Just as MLS is doing for itself. NASL has charted the higher risk, higher reward path and USL has charted the lower risk, lower reward path. What NASL is trying to do is not easy but the upside is much bigger. NASL will either succeed or die trying. If the league eventually fails I could see some teams moving to USL. It should be interesting to watch over the next 5-10 years. The USL is always there for you if you like safe, unambitious bets.
Other than the 4 teams that are leaving NASL in the next 2 to 3 years, there are about 3 more NASL teams that will eventually be MLS. Indianapolis, Jacksonville and Tampa Bay. There are a couple of cities, St Louis and Chicago that will also eventually be MLS. It is just a matter of time, money and politics.