(My) World Cup Predictions

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Sexy Beast, May 23, 2018.

  1. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    I am not sure France can beat Urguay or Brazil, nor i am convinced by England
     
  2. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    So, same question again : what are you sure about? In other terms what do you predict? Apart from Brazil winning it, because for the rest you can correct all, it's the moment if you want to do it, don't wait the day before the final.
     
  3. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    hm, Uru-Bra, Swe-Cro -> Bra-Cro -> Bra
     
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  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Some of the actual football has developed as foreseen. Brazil is the only major team that is above their recent level. The others are not. Spain has even regressed compared to their 2014 and 2016 selves.

    The first eight knock-out games have seen three penalty shoot outs. Footballing wise this is the worst World Cup since 2002. Many teams have a lack of creative players.

    It is however more entertaining than euro 2016. The way teams defend is more varied. The dynamics of the matches are more varied.
     
  5. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    What do you mean by that?

    I think in general it's quite opposite. I dont remember so many teams playing good defensively and being competitive... but still this is relatively high scoring world cup if thats what you mean by "footballing wise".

    Ive enjoyed it so far. It has had variety, intensity, competitiveness, mistakes, passion, late goals,.. what more can you ask for?
     
  6. wm442433

    wm442433 Member+

    Sep 19, 2014
    Club:
    FC Nantes
    I remain convinced that Spain would have done better with Lopetegui.
     
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  7. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    #32 Sexy Beast, Jul 6, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
    Uruguay - France

    France is a team that, statistically, makes the least of their plays through the middle, around 20%. They spread the remaining 80% equally on both flanks. What does that tell? They are similar to Portugal. They try to put their wide players in great positions to either go 1 on 1 or to cross that ball.
    They tried a bit more through the middle vs Argentina and it seems to work so this is a first question mark. Was that intentional by Deschamp or was it a fluke becuase Argentina just let them space in the middle. I think its the second thing. They had space to do so and i think Uruguay in thier 4-4-2 formation wont let them do that, they will redirect them to sides so another big battle is going to take place on sides (like vs Portugal). France is not obsessed by possesion, but Uruguay doesnt like possesion at all, so France is destined to have ball in their feet.
    I dont think France is going to mix up their formation or players in it so its classic 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1.. although i personally wouldnt go for that. I would take off Matuidi and put someone more offensive like Tolisso or even Lemar/Fekir..

    Uruguay was amazing in defending so far in WC, but i mean really amazing. They are very aggressive but they have onky one yellow card so far, that's insane! Last game Caceres and Laxalt were outstanding and if they can pull of something similar today, Uruguay can beat this France team. Having that said i dont think they will be as good and i think Mbappe with his dribbling skills and youthness (off the ball movements) will make problems that they didnt have to deal with vs Portugal.. what i think will be easier for Uruguay to replicate from their perfomance vs Portugal, is an aerual dominance in their penalty box. I dont think Giroud, Griezmann can make Gidin and Gimenez work as hard as CR and A.Silva.
    If Urguay is going to concede a goal i think it will be either corner kick, counter attack initiated by an amazing long pass (Pogba most likely to Mbappe) that goes over the head of central defenders/fullbacks or by a return pass after Mbappe(most likely) beats his man in 1v1 battle.

    Not sure if Cavani is going to play and thats a big hit on Uruguays team. He is in a sensational form throughout whole tournament even tho he didnt score in first couple of games. His work ethic is phenomenal and things he brings to the table for their attack is a lot. He can be a target man, he can make a long pass, his chemistry with Suarez is great, etc. Big loss if he doesnt play and i am not sure if Uruguay can score without him.

    Game will be slow and similar to the Portugal one, especually if Uruguay gets an early lead as they did. I dont have much cinfidence in France team vs great defense. They were pretty lucky to win against Australia.. probably details will decide the winner.

    I will go with:
    0-0, Uruguay on penalties
     
  8. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Brazil - Belgium

    Belgium is in a huge trouble if they dont make some serious adjustments from their previous match vs Japan. This 3-4-3 formation with the mentality that Martinez wants them to adopt is a suscide. If you are going to play 3-4-3 you need to make sure you do/have few things:
    1. Play on counters.

      This is not a formation that allows you to dominate in a midfield becuase you have only two players in the middle. If you want to dominate possesion, first thing you do is you make sure you outnumber opposition in the middle from where you can go and do whatever you want. The whole idea behind false nine in Guardiolas system is that a striker drops deep and adds an extra body in the middle. 3-4-3 doesnt allow you that, quite contrary.

    2. You have all around hardworking duo in the middle.

      Thats another thing that Belgium doesnt have. If you look at Contes successful season with 3-4-3 who was the midfueld duo? Matić and Kante (they didnt have a similar success with Kante and Fabregas).. Witsel-De Bruyne duo is just wrong for that formation. De Bruyne doesnt know how to behave in such formation. He was caught napping and out of position countless of times vs Japan, just imagine what Coutinho will do to him with his ability to find pockets of space. Even if he adjusts his game defensively, then he becomes useless offensively because he has no energy to follow the tempo
    I think Martinez got it completely wrong with this 3-4-3 idea. He wanted to incorporate all of the talent that Belgium has, but avoiding left back position because they dont have a class fullback there and in that quest to find alternative he come up with good-on-paper team, but completely disfunctional. It would be much better if they just put Verthogen on the left back and went with 4 at the back. This way Carrasco is even worse option becuase he is now obliged to play both defensively and offensively and he doesnt know how to do that. 3-4-3 is defensive minded tactic and he put in offensive minded players, thats never good.

    Another major issue with this formation and team is when they press. You cant exert high pressing with it, why?, because with 3 players at the back you inevitable cut yiurself shirt by one more player in pressing.
    The thing is that when you press, everybody has to press. Its not a strategy that you can do with just front three and with everyone else staying still. It doesnt work like that (i saw they are doing that at times, just bloody awful organization). Another thing is that with high pressing, central defenders never fully commit into it. They have to be on alert if long pass comes. So basically, in ideal scenario, everybody, but two central defenders, find their man that they need to exert pressure on if ball comes to him. That leads to mistakes by oppoisitions because they run out of passing options and space. Now if you have 3 central defenders what you essentially do is you take away one, priceless player that was man marking someone on the pitch and you put him in a defensive line where he stands still with another 2 central defenders being completely useless (thats exactly what they were doing wrong vs Japan). That inevitably leads to opposition outnumbering you somwhere, somehow so they dont have a problem finding a passing lines and your high pressing fails. Problem with that is that pressing is a high risk high reward strategy. If it suceeds you get the ball in high positions against unprepared defenses, but if it fails you are caught off your defensive structure and they can hit you with quick counter (against Brazil it will equal goal). Pressing with 3-4-3 in a way they did vs Japan, in group stages and in friendly vs Portugal is a suscide and it wont work vs Brazil.

    Now they can make some adjustments with those 3 central defenders i was talking about in a sense that they somehow incorporate one of them in pressing schemes rather than standing at the back being useless. Verthogen and Alderweireld will remain with their duties, so its down to whether Martinez will tell something to Kompany/Boyata. I dont think he will.

    There is another solution to all those problems and its very simple. You use 343 for what is what meant to be used, defending!! If they give up on a possesion battle, if Carrasco and Meunier focus more on defending rather than attacking, if De Bruyne does the same, if they find a way to counter the., then they have a chance.
    Predicting if Martinez will recognize potential threats and make valid solutions, will determine the outcome of this match. Considering that he just said that both teams are attacking minded and that there will be a lot of chances in this game, they might get really embarassed today, really, really embarassed.

    I think Martinez will make changes but not big enough. Chadli will most likely start instead of Carrasco and perhapse Boyata. They have a great offensive potential, Hazard leading the way but if they really try to outplay Brazil they will get hurt, really hurt.

    What can i say for Brazil, the best team in the world and wc so far. People still are not convinced by them, idk why, i fuess they have expected 5, 6 goals by them every match, but regardless they are very, very good. In last 25 matches (since Tite took charge of Brazil) they have had 19 clean sheets, conceding only 6 goals (they havent conceded more than one goal in a single match for over 2 years now!). 20 wins and only one loss vs Argentina in friendly. Stunning record. They havent been short of brilliance in this wc as well. They have everything, individuality, chemistry, balance in a midfield three, speed, strength, youth, experience, functional hierarchy, goalkeeper.. only thing i could possibly think they are not brilliant in are set pieces, phenomenal team otherwise. They only have to prove that they have mental toughness and stability to perform when it matters, cant see why they wouldnt.

    I expect a lot of goals in this match, mostly in belgiums net. They can hurt Brazil, especially with head so they might score somehow, even two, but cant see them outplaying Brazil, whcih is the most likely a plan.

    Neymar and Willian will give Alderweireald and Vertoghen the worst moments of their careers if Meunier and Carrasco give them even a little bit of space, which i think they will.

    This is too long post already tho i have some more things to say, but whatever. I predict:
    4-1 for Brazil

    Brazil scores first few goals, but towards end Belgium manages to score but aint enough:
    1-0, 2-0, 3-0, 3-1, 4-1.
     
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
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  10. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    The system is more of a problem than Kompany himself. He would do fine in formation with 2 central defeders, tho he js out of form

    And i dont get where do you find that he doesnt think of himself as a natural defender and then again, why would that make any difference.

    Overal i agree with everything in the article. It was a good read.
     
  11. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Squads for the game are out. No Mertens, De Bruyne apperently takes his place, Fellaini in... Chadli as well.. hm that changes things, it will be interesting to see how that works out in the middle and what will be De Bruyne's new role.

    On the other hand, Marcelo with questionable fitness is in. Could be a factor.. dont think it will be a huge win for Brazil after all
     
  12. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Well, the part on heading for example, and at which age he learned that.

    Kompany developed at the Belgian club Anderlecht, where the youth system was modeled on Ajax’s famed academy. Here the emphasis was on producing ball-playing defenders, and Kompany’s obsession with passing and technical skills paid off. Those youth teams almost never played in the air.

    “It’s funny, one of the strongest parts of my game today is heading,” Kompany says, “and that only really developed when I started playing at the professional level. In the youth teams all we did was passing."

    As @poetgooner noticed before, similar stories exist about other defenders (Boateng for example). (The reference to Ajax as a source is also not merely a lame and lazy name drop by the journalist, but that requires some elaboration.)
     
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    If this was a competition over 30 rounds or so then Brazil had won this world cup.
     
  14. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    surely, so would Hungary in 54, Netherlands 74, Brazil 82, Brazil 98, etc.. It's only 7 games long, that's why it is interesting!
     
  15. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    One of the most disgraceful and unfair first halfs in the history of world cup finals.
     
  16. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    .. this page needs revival.
     
  17. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    This is how I think group A, B, C, D might look like

    [​IMG]

    Netherlands I think are dark horse of the tournament. Since Van Gaal took them over they look strong, especially if Depay will be fit and in form. They might win it all.

    Players to watch: Estupinan and Gakpo

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    com vietnamese
     
  18. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    Completely underestimated England. Wow. They look very good. I thought Southgate will go for 3-4-1-2 formation and slow and dead football as usual, but this was a very pleasent surprise. Addition of Saka and Bellingham compared to last WC is really working well... I don't watch Bundesliga so I haven't had closer look at Bellingham. He is a phenomenal player and only 19 years old. Truly has everything to be one of the greatest.midfielders ever..

    Netherlands are quite the opposite story. I thought they had something more to give, but they are so sterile offensively. Not enough quality in attack, especially without Depay.. but a lot of blame goes to Van Gaal for organize the team is such way.

    De Ligt terrible honeslty. Frenkie has disappointed me in this game and his overall growth as a footballer past few years. I thought few years ago that he would have benefited from joining Barcelona, but apparently not. Still has potential, but I doubt he has the talent to actualize it. His decision making is at times poor.

    Very fun tournament so far.
     
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  19. Edhardy

    Edhardy Member+

    Sep 4, 2013
    Nairobi, Kenya
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    I thought Frenkie was okay mostly, the Senegal midfield is really physical and can keep things tidy plus Sarr really stretched the game. Apart from a few moments where Frenkie seems to intent to "play football" instead of safer options, I thought he was one of the better players on the pitch. Liked Ake, Gakpo (2nd half) and Sarr.
     
  20. Sexy Beast

    Sexy Beast Member+

    Dinamo Zagreb
    Croatia
    Aug 11, 2016
    Zagreb
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    He is trying too much. He tries to create something out of every touch on the ball when 2 touches and a simple pass and a trust in the system (position of his teammates) is more than enough. He needs to choose his battles more wisely, especially because he builds from the back and there is no cover for him.. and technically he is not good enough. His missed plenty of relatively easy passes.

    That is not a way for a midfielder of his role and position to play because cost of those blunders are too much.

    At this point he is a lesser version of Verratti with the ability to carry the ball.. potential is there for De Jong, but to be the top midfielder, that kind of style of play is inexcusable.

    Coming back to Bellingham.. that's how you play that role. His decision making and feel for the game is already much better.
     
  21. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    The expectations are fairly low this time around (compared to 2010, 2012 and also '2020 + VvD') but it is also believed they didn't provide their best, were careful for Senegal's speed advantage, and LvG did not show all his cards (to what extent this can surprise the big teams with an analytics staff of 40+ people remains to be seen). The five subs rule is not an advantage at all for teams like Netherlands; VvD said after the game he was not tired at all (Gakpo and FdJ said that too). It might well be they managed themselves (if they become too good, they might be hacked down and crippled anyway; from MvB to Sneijder/RvP and VvD).

    It's very hard to continuously compete with countries having four times the population and six/seven times as many registered footballers (and all the knowledge continuously leaking away to where the money and competition is).

    Moreover, the class, educational composition (and what they are actually training for, the last decade, esp. so after 2008) as well as the ethnicity are very arguably not advantageous any more (e.g. France has probably twice as high a share of black people in their country; the Turks, Maghreb and Moroccans - I am now skating on thin ice - haven't been reliable providers of football talent - if you add those then yes, you get a much higher percentage, above 10% certainly). There are many stories about players like Mbappe, Ibrahimovic etc. skipping school days in their youth. Well - although great amounts of criticism can the thrown - that is hardly a possibility here.

    On the long run, maybe the circumstance of not ageing as badly (perhaps) as many other European countries will be helpful for football - that is a 'maybe'.

    The latest edition of Szymanski his Soccernomics book has a table showing the 'overperforming' countries between 2010-2019 (based on experience, GDP and population). Netherlands is there not the outlier it was before, yet still easily in the top 10 for that period. Behind Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Iceland, Montenegro, Belgium and Portugal - but with a big gap to number 7 (Spain) and the next tier. According to the 2018 edition of the book, it was between 2000 and 2014 number two behind Spain in performance (not 'overperformance').

    [​IMG]

    "This may not look flattering to teams such as Canada and New Zealand who sit at the bottom of the cumulative goal-difference colour scale, but just remember that means they did better than all those blank white countries by making it to the tournament in the first place.
    As for the green end of the scale, it won’t blow anyone’s mind to learn that western Europe and South America have historically been the most successful regions at the World Cup, or that the Brazilians and the Germans, the two countries who have been to the most finals, have the best goal difference (the poor trophyless Dutch are just behind)."

    https://theathletic.com/3758704/2022/11/20/world-cup-tactics-data-history/

    [​IMG]

    So what are the expectations and the benchmark? Going for the trophy (again) or is it unrealistic to always compete with the 'FIFA royalty cartel' (assigning dodgy Russians to us and the like) and 'Concert of Europe' running the show. Frankly, I doubt the players are good enough this time around, especially with the five subs rule.

    I also think the interest is not as high (and football in general is declining a bit). Reports from today:

    "On Monday evening, an average of 4.3 million Dutch people aged 6 or older sat in front of the television. That is much less than in the first match of Orange during the previous major football tournament, the European Championship of 2021 (against Ukraine, more than 5.4 million viewers). In the run-up to the tournament, there was a lot of protest because of the human rights situation in Qatar, but that is not necessarily the only reason for the relatively low viewing figures.
    Another explanation is the early time of the game against Senegal: 5 p.m. Only once before in the last twenty years did the opening game of the Dutch national team attract less than 5 million viewers. That was at the 2010 World Cup in South Africa, when the Netherlands had to play against Denmark early in the afternoon (4.2 million viewers).
    Still, the total number of viewers may have been higher then: at summer World Cups, many people often watch together on squares and terraces, but they do not count in the official viewing figures. At the first match of the Netherlands in Brazil, at the 2014 World Cup, the viewing figure was 7.3 million, but many more supporters probably saw the 5-1 win against Spain.
    Of everyone who had the TV on during the match on Monday, 76 percent watched the Netherlands - Senegal. That seems like a lot, but this market share is the lowest in twenty years for the first Orange games at major tournaments. During the early game in South Africa, more than nine of the ten televisions that were on showed the Dutch national team."

    https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-ac...openingsduels-wk-pools-wel-populair~b885015d/

    "Compared to previous matches of the Dutch national team during a World Cup or European Championship, it is one of the worst-watched first games and the least-watched opening game of the Orange at a European Championship or World Cup in ages. The previous World Cup opening of the Orange, against Spain in 2014, was seen by about 5.4 million people. The opening at the 2020 European Championship, against Ukraine, also attracted more than 5.4 million viewers.
    The best-watched start of the Orange squad during a European or World Cup was the European Championship in 2004, when more than 7.5 million people watched television.
    [...]
    The share of viewers in the age group of fifty years and older has not changed compared to the World Cup in 2014 and the European Championship in 2021 where the Netherlands played. Younger viewers in particular made it known on Monday. In the age group 20 to 39 years, the number of viewers almost halved.

    The group size in which people watch the Dutch national team is also getting smaller. During the World Cup in Brazil, 22 percent of the Dutch watched the Orange matches with more than three people. In 2021 this was already less by 20 percent, due to covid and the lockdown. During the match between Senegal and the Netherlands, only 17 percent of the Dutch in a group of three people or more watched."

    https://www.nu.nl/media/6237620/bijna-43-miljoen-kijkers-voor-de-eerste-wk-wedstrijd-van-oranje.html

    I think many have been quite blase about this tournament... and the expectations are low.
     
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  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Also worth noting Morocco (for example) starts three players who were born and raised here (it has two starters raised in France, one born-Belgian, one Spain, and one Canadian, the goalkeeper).

    Potentially all three could have been selected for Oranje (especially Mazraoui). Some more on Morocco's bench as wel (Aboukhlal, born in Rotterdam).

    Gripes about discrimination and racism play a (small) part but it is very doubtful whether that is worse as elsewhere.
    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-countries-for-racial-equality
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-021-00773-2
    https://www.ipr.northwestern.edu/news/2019/quillian_racial_discrimination.html

    Maybe it is the paradox where precisely increased individualism ('emancipation'), the second generation effect and increased education leads to this sort of decisions (not to forget already in the 70s and 80s many of the 'non-foreign' players did not always commit themselves to the national team - not helped by playing abroad those days).
     
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  23. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    https://greatestsportingnation.com/per-capita-cup-2021/results

    Saw two days ago this old article from 2005 (which obviously works through one or two decades later), mentioned by someone else:
    https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2005/06/18/witte-vlucht-uit-voetbal-randstad-10543307-a56960
    https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2005/06/18/hadi-futbol-oynayalim-laten-we-gaan-voetballen-10543325-a767044
    https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2005/06/25/hadi-futbol-oynayalim-2-10551472-a1029249

    Show Spoiler

    "White flight' from football in the Randstad
    [...]
    Sport unites, is the prevailing thought. But in amateur football in the Randstad, the roads are separating. According to the most recent figures from 2003, only 8 percent of the native Amsterdammers who practice a sport are still members of a football club. More often they opt for cycling sports, inline skating/skating, tennis and swimming. Fitness/condition is the most practiced sport among native Hagene residents, followed by swimming and field football third. Researcher Sjoerd Rijpma of the Center for Research and Statistics in Rotterdam speaks of "a white flight" from amateur football.
    Immigrants are taking the place of the natives. The membership of the KNVB has been stable for years. Membership loss among youth aged 14-16 is compensated by the growth of young children, mostly from ethnic minorities. In The Hague, field football is the most practiced sport among second-generation immigrants. In Amsterdam, 45 percent of Turkish boys and men play football in clubs. This percentage is 42 among Moroccan men who play sports and merely 12 percent among Surinamese.
    [...]
    According to Han Entzinger, professor of immigration studies at Erasmus University Rotterdam, the arrival of immigrants is not the real explanation for the 'white flight' in amateur football. “The fact that football in the big cities has become a predominantly black sport is not necessarily the cause of football's gradual decline on the status ladder. It can also be the result of that. There are nowadays not so many whites in the lower social classes in the cities.'' According to Entzinger his numbers, the higher social classes choose other sports more often than in earlier decades, but they might have done so without the ethnic factor.
    [...]
    "The explanation for the white flight from amateur football is completely wrong. You need to do more extensive research to find the explanation, for example by comparing football with other team sports by ethnicity and by conducting research among those who have left football (outflow), or who are no longer opting for football (inflow). My hypothesis is, without wishing to be politically correct, that socio-economic position, stage of life and household type are significantly better explanatory variables than ethnicity. Richard Florida states in his now famous and maligned book The Rise of the Creative Class that the two-income knowledge worker household (whether or not with children) opts for flexible, more individual sports such as tennis, running and cycling, because the pattern of team sports does not suit them in their dynamic or overcrowded life. I dare to hypothesize that in 25 years there will be a similar influx into hockey, analogous to how the 'plebs' have also penetrated other sports."


    ----------------------------

    The 'low' percentage mentioned for Surinamese is interesting; this might well be because their average income and education was already in 2005 way higher (note: '3rd generation migrants' are/were no longer counted as having a foreign background in any way, they're counted as natives). The larger cities tend to have a younger population as the national average.

    Fast forward 15 years later. Various articles surface about declining youth membership for the KNVB since 2015. In other words: the above mentioned stability of youth membership - although already not as high as the late 70s (the number of football associations peaked in 1980) - no longer holds.

    Show Spoiler

    Football is no longer a matter of course
    The number of boys playing football has been decreasing every year since 2015. The KNVB and the clubs are doing everything they can to break this negative spiral.
    [...]
    “In the past, everyone went to football because there was not much else,” he says. “That is different now. A lot of the guys who started it because it was obvious now drop out because it's just not their game and also because there's so much choice.”
    [...]
    “Often the image of a sport also plays a role. Parents take their child from football and switch to hockey, because they consider it a safer environment. Because people are increasingly mobile, more and more sports have become accessible.” In addition, Elling points out that the women's branch has grown at the KNVB.


    See also this and this.

    ----------------------

    Either way, they have disappointed me so far, and so has Belgium.... (only De Bruyne has been okay imho, but obviously without the occasional decisiveness of earlier tournaments)
     
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Now it's all done (and indeed, the quarter final game only received about 5 million viewers in total; far below equivalent games in previous tournaments - also only 1000 supporters in the stadium, for all sorts of reasons) I found this a brief but good column:

    "In the football world, 'fine' is still not a common opinion
    [...]
    Lack of nuance
    These three examples show that lack of nuance is a universal phenomenon in football. Especially in international football: lie out, and you've failed - that's how the conclusion model should be. The fact that football is a low-score sport, which is far from inherently fair in terms of results in knockout rounds, should not be accepted. Let alone the recognition that there can also be countries other than their own good at football.

    Even with these football interpretation laws in mind, last week was a shock. Little of the optimistic underdog vibe was left in the Netherlands after the exit against Argentina. Louis van Gaal would even have failed by denying the principles of Dutch School football.
    The line between disappointment and opportunism turns out to be awfully thin. There is still little realism.
    Zoom out. According to online database Transfermarkt.de, the Dutch World Cup selection has a combined market value of 527 million euros. Sounds like a lot, it's okay. Of the eight quarter-finalist selections, only those from Morocco (241 million) and Croatia (377 million) have a lower total value. Brazil, France and England are even well over the one billion mark. Netherlands their value - this squad and the broader group of players - sits at place seven or eight in the world.

    Just not
    Where in the top countries there is a star from a top club in every position, the Netherlands wholesales in football players who just didn't make it into the elite ranks of club football. With Memphis Depay, Steven Bergwijn, Steven Berghuis, Vincent Janssen, Luuk de Jong, Wout Weghorst, Davy Klaassen, Marten de Roon and Daley Blind, the contingent of players with a failed adventure in the Premier League is more than four times as large as the two-man group of graduates (Virgil van Dijk, Nathan Aké) in the league of competitions.
    In the 'big five' club competitions (Premier League, LaLiga, Bundesliga, Serie A, Ligue 1), players from the Dutch World Cup selection together scored 15 goals this season. The selections of the seven other quarter-finalists averaged 35.4 goals in top competitions this season.
    In short. Also expressed in numbers, this is simply not a golden Dutch crop. Orange is sub-top in current country football, the second tier. Being one penalty kick (4-3) away from a spot in the semi-finals doesn't count as a 'fail' in any universe. With anything but sparkling, but defensively solid football, the Netherlands delivered an alright performance. But that conclusion seems off limits."

    https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-ac...ima-nog-altijd-geen-gangbare-mening~bbccfe01/

    Also the remarks here after 22:00 are pretty well-rounded (for once):
    https://open.spotify.com/episode/4YLjsePGaF48REx0H1cOMg?si=1FV-iRHUTwa-EOQZct3gcQ

    There are some critical remarks to make about playing this version of Daley Blind (and some odd players selections/omissions in the squad), as well as Van Dijk taking a penalty (he and the staff said they *all* went in before, but I don't think this is wise to do with a bruised/hurt foot) but mostly this makes sense.

    The idea of Van Dijk having failed with the national team is also off (although he didn't show much of his football ability this tournament). He has lost only 9 of his 54 national team games (6 goals, a few pre-assists like vs Belgium earlier this year), and never by more than a one goal margin until now (this is a more meaningful fact than it might seem at first sight). That's a testament to his quality/value over a prolonged period of time, and he isn't playing with a Robben, Bergkamp or Van Basten up front.



    With better officiating - Argentina being slightly better cannot be separated from this - a final place was quite possible (likely losing against a team of the other half), but that's nothing new (in 2000 Toldo could go repeatedly off his line, and the German officials - under which we have the worst record of all - gave it a pass).

    Belgium their best chance was 2016, in hindsight. Not 2018 or 2021 (esp. with that officiating and injuries). However, 2016 had meant playing France in the final in France itself..
     
  25. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I've thought a bit more about this (and listened/spoken to others). Will come back later.

    One crucial element is all those Benelux born players are second generation migrants (not the first, third or fourth), also the ones just outside the squad.
     

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