Mueller indictment thread

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by superdave, Oct 28, 2017.

  1. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But they were no Spanish Inquisition.
     
  2. Mojo Jambo

    Mojo Jambo Member

    Aug 26, 2013
    Cleveland, OH
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
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    United States
    Her husband breaks a windshield.
     
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  3. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    United States
  4. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    This really is the Black Knight of legal defenses. "Tis but a scratch" as they squirt blood all over the place.
     
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  5. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
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    United States
    I dint git no law degree from Trump University and I ain't no 'fessianal lawyer like Rudy, but I reckon that maybe collusion is a crime. If you accept anything of value (like the many hours Sergei and Yuri spent hacking servers) in return for engaging in a secret agreement, wail, I dunno....
     
  6. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Think technically its conspiracy to defraud the United States. Collusion is shorthand. IMO Republican leadership knew about it (or should've) but we'll see what Mueller digs up.
     
  7. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
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    United States
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/prime-beta/the-door-rudy-opened

    This is behind the prime paywall. Basically, Giuliani was on George S's show. He was answering a question about how long the negotiations on Trump Tower Moscow continued. He said through election day.

    Even worse, Giuliani clarified things later to CNN and said that in Trump's written answers he refused to say anything about events after election day, believing that time is covered by executive privilege. So for all we know, negotiations are happening right now.

    Bob Loblaw is like, damn, Giuliani, that's some stupid shit you're saying.
     
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  8. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Flynn makes a statement.

    FBI says "you sure you don't wanna mention X, Y & Z?"

    Flynn - oh yeah, that's right. Thanks!

    They got the tapes, Dummy
     
  9. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    @yossarian

    Dersh wraiths himself pretty bad here

    Wonder if he is on the payroll?

    He is making the kind of hopeless arguments only a defence lawyer can make. If he wasn't being paid why trash his own rep with such a poor quality argument?



     
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  10. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
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    FC Sankt Pauli
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    Flynn is the most outrageous of all IMO

     
  11. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    He has zero morality. Just before he took Erdoğan's money and became a proponent of Turkey he was giving a public speech about how terrific the (supposed) anti-Erdoğan coup was and how it would usher in a secular, pro-West government. From his behavior, it was always inevitable he would become a traitor to the United States. And from his lawyers' comments in court, I still don't think he gets it. Maybe the judge doesn't either.
     
  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
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    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    This is fascinating analysis from Empty Wheel

    Putting together various things we now know, the FBI interview was the chance for Flynn to simply state that he had spoken with Kislyak and even to say why, or just say he wouldn't discuss it - as it was POTUS business. After all, within a week or so, Flynn would be NSA and Trump President. It was not secret the new Admin wish to pursue a different policy. Why not just say so?

    Instead he felt compelled to lie in order to conceal Trumps involvement. Again - Why?

    MIKE FLYNN STEPS IN IT: IN A BID TO FEED THE FROTHY RIGHT, HE LEADS TO RELEASE OF DAMNING NEW DETAILS SHOWING HE LIED TO PROTECT TRUMP

    And it is unbelievably damning, in part because it shows the degree to which Flynn’s lies served to protect Trump.​

    The 302 shows how the FBI Agents first let Flynn offer up his explanation for his conversation with Kislyak. He lied about the purpose for his call to Kislyak on December 29 (he said he had called to offer condolences about the assassination of Russia’s Ambassador to Turkey) and he lied about the purpose of his call about Israel (he claimed he was, in part, doing a battle drill “to see who the administration could reach in a crisis” and in the process tried to find out how countries were voting on the Israeli motion; Flynn denied he had asked for any specific action).

    Then, after the Agents specifically asked whether he recalled any conversation about the Obama actions, Flynn doubled down and claimed he did not know about those actions because he was in Dominican Republic.

    https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/12/...new-details-showing-he-lied-to-protect-trump/
     
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  13. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Judge Napolitano gives his breakdown. Trump might already be under sealed indictment:

    “The DOJ has three opinions on this. Two say you can’t indict a sitting president, one says you can, but all three address the problem of ‘What do you do when the statute of limitations is about to expire?’

    “All three agree in that circumstance, you indict in secret, keep the indictment sealed, and release it the day he gets out of office.”

    You can’t let a person go scot free because they happen to be in the White House.”

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...o-indicted-russia-michael-cohen-a8688441.html
     
  14. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
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    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
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    I doubt he's on the payroll. Two things about him, he will take the "defense lawyer" position 99 percent of the time no matter how quixotic it may seem; he loves attention and if he was just another Trump basher, he wouldn't be getting as much attention.
     
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  15. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Need him to be a dee-fense lawyuh of these heah U-nited States I reckon.

    He's on the wrong side of history. That's why no one wants to be near him on Martha's Vineyard.
     
  16. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
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    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
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    But he would dispute the way you're framing the issue. He'd argue that zealously defending the rights of the accused (any accused) and fighting prosecutorial over-reach is never the wrong side of history. Whether Trump is actually guilty doesn't matter as much to him.
     
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  17. NGV

    NGV Member+

    Sep 14, 1999
    As I said:



    For all its complicated details and twists, the main Russia story seems quite simple. The Russian government offers Trump business opportunities, intervenes in elections on his behalf, and promises not to spill any of the dirt that they've collected on him. In return, the Trump campaign - and later, the Trump transition - expresses their willingness to lift sanctions.

    Once the feds got Flynn, it became unlikely that the Russians could ever collect on their side of the deal. That helps explain the urgency with which Flynn was pursued during the very early days of the Trump administration, and why the specific matters that Flynn lied about were seen as crucial ones by US counterintelligence.
     
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  18. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
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    I agree if he was actually in court of course

    But as a professor seems to be wraithing.

    Just making bad arguments for publicity
     
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  19. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    Yeah I know his schtick. But this isn't a wrongly accused, poor A.A. defendant with shady govt. evidence.
     
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
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    It does not matter, if you are a defense lawyer, even if you know your client is guilty, you still do not want the prosecutor to circumvent the law.

    For publicity and he seems to be a zealot for defense attorneys.

    If you really do think that the government is violating the constitution or the law, you should speak up, it does not matter if they are violating it against a child molester or worse, Donal Trump.

    Not that I agree with him, but I assume that is what he thinks he is doing.


    Now, you are the one that wanted Obama to cancel the election, so respect for the constitution or democratic norms is not something that I think you have, at least not as high as Dershowitz in regards of defendant rights.
     
  21. charlie15

    charlie15 Member+

    Mar 9, 2000
    Bethesda, Md
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
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    United States
    I hope the judge decides to disregard Mueller's recommendations and throw the book at this asshat!
     
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  22. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    I think he's so distrustful of govt overreach (he hates the special counsel law) that he's almost cornered into defending Trump. It's absolutist nonsense IMO.
     
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  23. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
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    Chicago Red Stars
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    I agree.
     
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  24. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
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    Arsenal FC
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    United States
    He'd disagree that the zealotry should only encompass the courtroom. Again, I'm not saying I agree with him. Just speculating as to his thought process, and I'll admit it's speculation. Taking his class for one semester as a 1L only gives me slightly more insight than the average Joe --- slightly.
     
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  25. ToMhIlL

    ToMhIlL Member+

    Feb 18, 1999
    Boxborough, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But don't you love how anyone who calls Dersh on his bullshit is a "bigot?" Not like the guy called him a "money-grubbing, lying Jew bastard" or anything, he just acted skeptical when he gave a long pause before denying he was being paid by Trump. What the hell does his religion/background have to do with that?

    There are enough instances of real racism, Antisemitism, anti-whateverism out there that by playing that card in the event of any slight totally diminishes the impact of when this kind of bigotry does occur. And it does, all too often.
     

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