Moving Forward From the Gold Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Maximum Optimal, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know this is from 2 days ago, but I have to push back on this. Nearly every player on that 2002 roster had the best tournament of their careers, at the same time. We weren't strong because of Reyna. Hell, we beat a pre-tournament favorite in Portugal WITHOUT Reyna, to start the tournament. Yes, we (as a team) then had great games after that (most notably the Mexico win and Germany "loss"), but that team had already shown it could get results against a very formidable team without Reyna. Hell, most of our best attacks in that tournament came from young guys like Donovan and Wolff charging forward. We certainly weren't beating teams by controlling the tempo. We won as many games in that tournament in Reyna's 4 games (1) as we did in the 1 game that he didn't play (1). Reyna was good in 2002. Not saying he wasn't. But it wasn't all about Reyna. Hell, it wasn't even mostly about Reyna.

    We need to find a system that gets the best out of the collective unit … not just for 1 guy. We make it all about Pulisic, we are going to underachieve for a long time to come.
     
  2. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I'm not saying a playmaker=everything, but it will help greatly if you can change the temp rather than just going fast.

    Also a good playmaker could use the space well by switch the ball between the flanks.
     
  3. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I actually disagree, after watching it twice. To me, he only looked off kilter maybe twice. But at least 1 of those 2 was when he was deep in his own end and trying to re-set the defensive shape. The worst turnovers, by far, were from Bradley. His turnovers (3 maybe) all seemed to come in our own half, leading to Mexican players running full speed towards our box, with numbers.
     
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  4. Slowpokeking

    Slowpokeking Member

    Jul 18, 2011
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    That's what I'm talking about, the USMNT needs a playmaker to control the tempo at sometimes, or we will look like that when we are out of gas. If there is someone with vision to move the ball and ppl could create space, it wouldn't happen.
     
  5. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Tyler is in the middle of getting a new team so that adds two possible reasons to the traditional coach didn't like what he saw. A) he was mildly hurt and has been resting but they don't announce this because of the negotiations. B) his agent requested he not play so he doesn't get hurt.
     
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  6. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    That certainly seems to be the rumor now that he's signed. He had some level of injury, and either Berhalter thought Morris was better than an X% Boyd and didn't tell people for Boyd's benefit ... or Boyd actually asked not to play so as to not make it apparent.

    Either way, it seems the most reasonable explanation.
     
  7. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Dude, get off this. Three of his call-ups from Europe had to drop because of injury. He brought in Boyd. Sargent and Weah don't have many pro minutes.
     
  8. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I remember that the first posts on Berhalter where about who will play the ten. He doesn't know how to play without Higuaín. Pulisic is completely different from Higuain. Blah, blah, blah. Six months later we have Pulisic absolutely thriving. Did any of you geniuses admit you were wrong? Nope, not one. Maybe, just maybe the coach has figured out that Trapp is not good enough and Bradley is old. Maybe when he gets more than one game with Adams we see more variations. Who knows? I don't. You sure don't know either about his plans either.
     
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  9. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Whether I agree with your entire characterization, the asymmetry we are using is too easy to exploit. Mexico did that. Jamaica and Curacao did it but the talent disparity still won out.

    Some think Adams for Bradley solves everything. But I don't know that Egg will make that change. Even with the Hex 14 months away, or because it is 14 months away, I think Adams is still going to play RB. If Adams is in for Cannon in this sequence, he probably never gets into central midfield. I don't know if he does any better than Cannon. And he certainly doesn't help at all with the problems the overloaded Ream-Bradley-Long triangle were having.

    Miazga makes the pass to Zardes's head for the one half chance for Pulisic. Otherwise, it was all Long. Mexico was forcing the ball to Long or we were. Long comes out of the tournament with high marks in the media. But I wonder if this gets him benched for a bit. Zimmerman was getting high marks in the media because we hadn't given up a goal (no goals, defender good) but his poor passing against Curacao was a bigger factor for Egg, who dropped him.

    Conversely, Miazga looks slow on the Jamaica goal, but his calm and useful passing and dribbling in that game got him the start versus Mexico.
     
  10. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Offensively, the team is good. But Pulisic at the 10 is causing defensive problems. Even with his subs, Gregg seems focused on when we have the ball. But, to me, the problems since he took over are more about getting pressure on the ball in midfield, winning the ball, and defensive shape.

    Neither Pulisic, nor Altidore, nor Zardes, as part of the "2" up top, did anything useful to deny the ball into central midfield.
     
  11. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Bradley is supposedly in this team for "veteran leadership" and to make "on the dime diagonals". We see from this clip, that Bradley adds gasoline to the fire. Where is his calmness, and ability to dictate tempo, and provide leadership? He is all over, seems as panicked and dumbfounded as everyone else.

    I also don't remember one good diagonal from him (not the chipped cross the team has around the box, but the 50 yard switch to the winger the System demands).
     
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  12. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    MLS changed it's tune once it saw that nine figure and high eight figure transfer fees had become common for young, exceptional players.
     
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  13. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I don't think Pulisic is excellent off the ball and he admits that he doesn't really like that aspect but he puts in his work. As a 20 yo attacking player this is an aspect that he is improving but it was good enough that Dortmund had him as a wingback a few games.
     
  14. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    He was terrible at wingback and the coach that did that was terminated. ;)

    He does work. I'm not sure it was a question of work but scheme. Pulsic and Altidore are certainly smart enough to cut a pass into Guardado or Dos Santos. I think they just were told to do something else. Against Chile, that pass through Arriola/Zardes to Vidal was open too. Curacao dribbled through the forwards and passed around them. Pulisic probably ran 15 miles in that game, as he was 1 v 2 and doing something where he had to sprint between the RB and RCB for Curacao. The kid works and is smart, no doubt.

    Morris and Cannon were doing wind sprints on the right versus Mexico. Gregg is trying things defensively, but it is definitely the weaker aspect of the team. Strange to say when they only gave up 2 goals. But Mexico could have had more and Venezuela could've had 5-6 if they had played more than 40 minutes.
     
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  15. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There were several players who played in the first few games that didn't play the last few. Maybe Berhalter played some of the players he wasn't as sure about against the minnows and when the games became tougher he switched to those he trusted more. It doesn't seem that way at first but Cannon, Morris and Miazga seemed on the outside and yet all three played the toughest games? I'm on the fence about whether it was planned or they won over Berhalter.
     
  16. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    That is very possible. It could be that GB was playing his starters, but then benched several players following the poor Curacao match. Both narratives fit the timeline. Lima, Zimmerman, Boyd, Zardes were all poor in that game and all were replaced.
     
  17. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I would hope that Berhalter lets on the field performance convince him. I think Cannon and Miazga earned their Mexico start. Not so sure about Morris.
     
  18. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I am not sure about the defensive vs offensive aspect. From my point of view the system seems be flexible and able to both be very defensive or very offensive. It's in the moments of transition from defense to offense and when the high press doesn't work that well which is a cause of concern. The secondary aspect is the transition from offense to defense when we win the ball back in our half. In that case, it's not so much that we lose the ball but a good high press slows us down. That may be due to the fact we don't have enough reps or it may be due to us never getting enough reps to handle the transitions. Alternatively, we get players that can really improve the press and/or really improve breaking the lines from the back. I have high hopes for Adams and Pomykal in that respect.
     
  19. Maximum Optimal

    Maximum Optimal Member+

    Jul 10, 2001
    Setting aside goalie and defense for now, over the next six months I'd like to see the following happen:

    1) A couple games for Adams at the 6

    2) Integrate Pomykal into the team. First obviously a callup. Then maybe a couple appearances as a sub. There are a number of possible permutations. Perhaps the team goes best with a midfield troika of Adams, McKennie and Pomykal, with Pulisic moving to a wide position. Perhaps for now Pomykal works best as a bench player.

    3) Work out who the first choice wide players are. Pulisic is an option. The others to give more looks to are Arriola, Boyd and Weah.

    4) Give some work to both Sargent and Weah as Jozy's understudy at forward.
     
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  20. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [1] He did not before the Gold Cup and he did not during the Gold Cup. If your point is that maybe, just maybe, the coach will eventually figure out that the evidence of the world is evidence of the world, well, then, that's certainly possible.....:coffee:
    [2] Maybe we see more variations, maybe we don't, Who knows? Them's wise words, Sir. Can't go wrong with those words. ....:coffee:
    [3] You are so right, hombre. We know his plans before the Gold Cup, for we saw his plans unfold. We know his plans during the Gold Cup, for we saw his plans unfold. But we surely don't know the plans of what has not yet unfolded. General Egg's command of the future is a masterpiece beyond our ability to comprehend. He is that freakin' good.

    This is what the "defense" of the shambolic play and game management of the USMNT, in the era of Mikey and General Egg, has come to:
    "Que Sera, Sera. Whatever will be, will be. The Future is hard to see!. Que Sera, Sera. Whatever will be, will be!"

    It's good to know that someone was listening to their mama when they were a kid......;)
     
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  21. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    we have a window in sept before nations league home-and-aways with cuba and canada, not sure what other chances there will be this year.

    the sept friendlies are in very close proximity with champions league dates, so pulisic, adams, weah and horvath (possibly saief and gall, very remotely possibly dest) are some degree of doubtful. not sure about europa league, but that would take brooks (and chandler and johnson if youre into that sort of thing), as well.

    so of your list sargent, boyd and pomykal would be most likely to start being (more) integrated. its also possible if pomykal is slated to be used primarily for olympic qualifying next year gregg could take a "why bother now?" stance there.

    so its really a matter of does berhalter see this is a chance to give "new" guys looks, or to prep (probably the same damn jan camp players lined up behind experienced leader bradley) for the nations league.
     
  22. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member

    Aug 1, 2014
    We all know that he did a horrible job with his 40-man and 23-man rosters.
     
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  23. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed.

    Guys like Sanneh, Mastro, and Heydude played the best 2 weeks of their lives...
     
  24. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #174 Lloyd Heilbrunn, Jul 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019
    I need to see more than some games against the Little Sisters of the Poor, and a good first half with an almost complete second-half disappearance versus Mexico before I will go that far... Unfortunately, he disappeared when we needed him most.
     
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  25. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Doris Day's kid is here? Cool!
     

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