Moving Forward From the Gold Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Maximum Optimal, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd also prefer to see Pulisic on the wing. It's not going to take him out of the game; wingers who pinch into the middle are a crucial part of the modern game. In my view, the two best right backs in the pool now are Yedlin and Cannon, both attack-minded, chalk-on-their-boots type players. It makes most sense to put Pulisic on the right wing, where Pulisic pinching inside and a right back overlapping on the outside stretch the field for each other.
     
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  2. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Strikers: Woods is the clear #1, if he fully recovers form. Altidore's competitive record against decent competition has been poor. He looks to have gained quite a bit of weight. His injury prone and is mobility has declined. He should be phased out.

    In form forwards include Novakovich, Ferreira, White, Mason Toye, and CJ Sapong.

    Zardes
    is the stop gap. Sargent and Soto need to find club minutes somewhere.

    Central Mids: McKennie, Adams, Nagbe, Roldan, Pomykal, Holmes and Morales make for a strong group. McKennie and Adams are the locks. Other starters would depend on formation, opponent, and tactics.

    Agudelo intrigues. He has been accumulating minutes in central minutes and playing well. He brings a combo of size, athleticism, and technical ability that's hard to fine among a typically lilliputian group.

    Cerrillo and Servania are quickly rising.

    Attackers(cams,wide players, off-forwards): Pulisic, Pomykal, Boyd, Rodriguez, Arriola, Holmes, Nagbe. Pulisic is automatic. The other starters depend on formation, form, tactics, and opponent.

    Weah needs to get minutes at club level.
    Lewis needs to more consistency at club level.
    Morris needs to find form, following rehab from the knee injury.
    Ledezma looked promising at the U20s.
    Durkins is waiting on that transfer.

    Fafa Picault deserves a shout. Is putting up solid numbers with Philly, despite the changes in role and formation.

    Nguyen and Lletget could be useful as veteran amids.

    Centerbacks: Brooks, Robinson, Miazga, Long, Opara, CCV. A quality group all around. Long needs to be in a top-5 Euro League.

    Trusty and McKenzie are experiencing growing pains.

    Sands is rising. Will Richards continue in the youth ranks at Bayern?

    Fullbacks: Yedlin, Robinson, Cannon, Lima. Robinson would be a starter, if a convention leftback were used. There is nice battle at right back. Lima may also be an option at LB.

    Hollingshead deserves a shout for a leftback role, especially if it were to be more in the LB/CB vein. Has consistently driven strong team performances. Give him a start. Maybe he bombs. Maybe he does a Reggie Cannon.

    CCV also deserves a shout for the LB/CB role.

    Dest and Gloster need to find club minutes at a good level.

    Araujo is rising quickly.

    Dotson and Gasper have broken through with Minnesota. Their progress will be interesting.
     
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  3. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member

    Aug 1, 2014
    #128 Marius Tresor, Jul 10, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
  4. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know that there is enough of a sample size. Bello has been injured for almost the entire 2019 season so far. Carleton appears to have serious problems with professionalism and needs to get his head on straight before he pulls an Adu.
     
  5. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I don't think there's any question that this is the ideal system for right now if all three are the top of their game and they can be integrated effectively. It would be a midfield with bite and technical ability and reasonably good passing and playmaking and would help cover w/the issues we have in terms of developing Forwards/Wingers from the 1989-1996 generation (the 1997's-2003's should plug those holes if they stay healthy and continue to develop, but the bulk of them are at least 1-2 years away from contributing consistently to the senior side at any level).

    I'm really curious what Berhalter will do if he had a healthy and in form Adams, McKennie and Pomykal in time for the next set of friendlies. I figure he's gonna throw Bradley in yet again, come what may, damn the evidence, and the reality that contradicts the wisdom of such a strategy, but one can hope.
     
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  6. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    From your mouth to god’s ear.

    I am personally doubtful that we will have a team with modest MLS participation and if Pomykal > Trapp/Bradley and decides to leave, it’ll create issues.
     
  7. yabo

    yabo Member+

    Jun 1, 2000
    Poolesville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What I'm not sure about is whether we 1) really don't have the depth and talent 2) need to pull in the young guns and blood them ahead of 2022 qualifying.
     
  8. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    Forgot about Zimmerman and Mueller
     
  9. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    Ideally they'd take the tack of marketing MLS as "see the national team stars of tomorrow". This would still let them go for marketing tie ins with a US team including guys like Adams, Steffen, Yedlin, Miazga, EPB, hopefully Pomykal and Cannon in the near future, Weah and McKennie too if you want to be generous with it.

    Of course that would necessitate embracing (at least short-medium term) the "developmental league" angle, which of course they won't want to do.
     
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  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    They are never -- and should never -- fully embrace the developmental league angle. It's limiting both in a very real sense of potential and in a very real sense in terms of marketing.

    But MLS has very much shifted gears in the last year in terms of both individuals and teams being more aligned to developing young talent and selling. The sales of Adams and Davies have highlighted a revenue stream to supplement standard revenues and help keep the league growing.

    That, combined with some franchises realizing that they either can't or do not want to compete with the big payrolls some of the new investment is bringing into the league has really shifted direction.

    There is still a difficulty in marketing a league where your best players leave after a year of being good to the average American consumer. But I think we'll see some of it.

    My larger point still remains: I don't see Jozy or Bradley at the centerpiece of any MLS marketing, which actually focuses on the Zlatans of the world. If there's a conspiracy, it's poorly used and doesn't seem to have a point.
     
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  11. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    From your mouth to God's ears. This would be great for everyone.
     
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  12. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    But you conveniently push aside all the Bradley/Trapp hype by the media writ large as well as the Best XI in the Gold Cup and CONCACAF as some low-level intern.

    for a guy who works for a big company, you sure don't seem to know how PR decisions are made.

    No surprise that we completely disagree on whether MLS should view itself as a developmental league.
     
  13. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Yeah, I feel like they marketed Pity Martinez (before he even played a game) more so than they ever did Trapp. I can't even remember the last time I saw Columbus make a national broadcast in the regular season. Zlatan is constantly all over their web site. And MLS.com just published a Best XI of the season so far and no Bradley, Altidore or Trapp in sight, including on the honorable mentions. I'd say in my years of following the league there's never been a time such as now when marketing American stars has felt like so low a priority.
     
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  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    You and gogorath do realize that we're talking about the marketing around the USMNT and not MLS?

    I hope everyone realizes that Bradley, Trapp and pretty much everyone not Long/Zimmerman on the Gold Cup squad are not elite MLS players.
     
    Marius Tresor repped this.
  15. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    SUM Cabal Executive Director
    Jan 9, 2004
    3 blocks from "SoccerHouse", Chicago
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Having Bradley on the team doesn't actually make the team more marketable. Hell, the marketability of Bradley was pretty "Meh" even back in 2011 when he was arguably our most consistent field player.

    Not that a conspiracy theory not actually making sense has ever dampened enthusiasm for it.
     
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  16. An Unpaved Road

    An Unpaved Road Member+

    Mar 22, 2006
    Club:
    --other--
    Gogorath referenced MLS marketing, and that's the line of thought I continued. I didn't read your post.
     
  17. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    It’s sorta crazy that the team was marketed around Bradley all year.
     
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  18. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I agree. Garber has said that the strategy has shifted. Marketing Bradley and Altidore turned out to not be a fan driver. Beating LigaMX is. I think figuring out they could develop and sell for good money, young Americans, is more an organic thing that happened. It hasn't happened everywhere either.
     
  19. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I see more marketing with Pulisic. Sometimes if a game is in a local area, do they put a local player on the marketing?

    In general, the marketing for the USMNT is abysmal and totally forgettable. I've also seen zero cooperation between the marketing of the team and the actual coaching of the team. You see players featured in marketing material and then not even dress for a friendly.
     
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  20. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    You don't see MLS themselves pushing Bradley or Trapp as a marketing vehicle. You assume they have much more control over the rest of the media -- they don't.

    No one is going to games for Bradley or Trapp and MLS is well aware of that.

    We completely disagree on whether the MLS should be a developmental league? Simply because I don't think they should "never fully embrace" it -- as in, they shouldn't only be a developmental league but should be one and other things as well.

    I'm not even sure how someone completely disagrees with an opinion like that.
     
  21. gogorath

    gogorath Member

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019

    No, my argument is simple.

    No one in MLS is doing this massive conspiracy -- with a lot of downside risk -- to forcing USMNT rosters and pushing narratives on the media and all these things you think MLS has this strange power over ...

    ... to promote players that they don't promote at all when they actually do have absolute control.

    If MLS doesn't see the value in promoting Michael Bradley through their twitter feed, why the hell would someone do something as elaborate and potentially damaging as forcing the USMNT roster to include him?

    Like most conspiracy theories, it really makes no sense at all.

    MLS is cozy with USSF for a lot of reasons. This one doesn't ring true. I'm sure MLS loves to see MLS players on the roster. But I have no idea why there would be a grand conspiracy to see Michael Bradley there.

    And then, you know, never promote the fact that he's there and stick him in a Canadian city.
     
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  22. cyberthoth

    cyberthoth Member

    Aug 7, 2000
    Nashville, TN
    Club:
    DC United
    Is Kenny Saif a player we should be thinking about moving forward? One would think he's not a bad fit at the attacking mid position Pulisic played either to enable him to go to the wing or simply as the number one backup.
     
  23. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017


    A look at the terrible 20 minutes that led up to the Mexican goal. It is pretty striking how poor Long is during this period. He is not calm or patient. Several times booting the ball in random directions. Bradley, Mckennie have their share, but Long seems panicked.
     
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  24. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'd be panicked too if I had no midfield and Egg hadn't sent numbers into the right side to enable a switch and Cannon was totally absent. The Captain was below having whisky while the ship was sinking.

    Mexico figured out that the damage was coming from Long's side on the left (Long/Ream/Arriola/Pulisic )and they put numbers on our left side to create unbalance and take advantage of that unbalance. Egg didn't understand that concept.

    There were almost no black shirts on our right side because they knew McKennie and Cannon's offensive game couldn't hurt them.

    And reps for posting. That is a good schemata.
     
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  25. nbarbour

    nbarbour Member

    Jun 19, 2006
    Washington DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oof. That was ugly. This is one reason I’m skeptical of Long. Miazga is no Brooks with the ball, but he’s better than Long. And Bradley SMH. And McKennie had that one bad giveaway.
     

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