Moving Forward From the Gold Cup

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Maximum Optimal, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    Agree and what I really like about it is that they each individually have the versatility to play as a classic 6/8/10, 2 6s and an 8, or 2 8s and a 10 depending on the opponent and game situation without switching out personnel. Alternatively you can even drop Pulisic back to the 10 and go with a diamond (Adams at the 6 and McKennie/Pomykal as shuttlers), especially if you've got Weah starting on the other wing who can slide in to a dual 9.
     
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  2. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    Completely agree. His set piece ability can be a valuable weapon in tight Hex games, too.
     
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  3. rgli13

    rgli13 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i think adams is a VERY solid passer who would do fine "distributing" as a 6 for us (with plenty of room to grow)- my previous post was sarcasticly pointing out that hes not going to suck any more than bradley does in that role at the absolute minimum.
     
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  4. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    What are the odds that pomykal stays in MLS for the foreseeable future? Maybe he could replace Bradley/Trapp as a spine player
     
  5. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member

    Aug 1, 2014
    This is the problem. Even if Bradley and Trapp both got kidnapped and held for ransom on a deserted island, Egg would find some other slow, limited MLS CM to fit into his "system." Or he would pay the ransom.
     
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  6. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Sargent doesn't have the strength to hold up. His forte is getting into spots like Dempsey did and finishing. Nova's game is limited. Cannon doesn't have an offensive game. Pomykal doesn't assist and score so I'd play him at the 8 instead of Wes and put a scoring/assisting 10 in front of him. Lima isn't 100% comfortable at the lb position. Brooks needs a 3rd cb for help. Long and Pulisic are aces.

    --------------jozy----boyd/morris
    --arriola--pulisic------pomykal----lima
    -------------------adams
    -----------long--brooks--wes
    --------------gk: steffen

    I thought Morris was ok v. Mexico. He got into the right spots but didn't execute as well as he has in the past so I still have him in the picture with Boyd as the alternate. I would like to play a style where our cb's are scoring threats.
     
  7. rgli13

    rgli13 BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    durkin is the name youre looking for
     
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  8. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I realize this is picking on not the substance of the post, but Novakoivich at winger? I've seen a decent amount of the guy and can't really get my mind around that one.

    I can't imagine playing him over Weah in this setup at that position at all. Not just on quality, but skillset.
     
  9. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    Man, that one highlight has gotten so much play.

    I've seen enough of McKennie and Adams to know that they'd struggle, right now, to consistently connect defense to attack.

    I think that's a lot of the reasoning behind the Adams as CM/RB move -- whether you like it or not. It would create 3 real CMs plus Pulisic.

    Perhaps in time Adams and McKennie will develop well enough to play as dual 8s that can control the midfield offensively and defensively. But I think they are going to need help on offense. That's doesn't mean it's Bradley -- I think longer term it's hopefully Pomykal or someone like that. But that pass doesn't mean he can play that role consistently.
     
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  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I would be shocked if he's in MLS past next January transfer window.

    He will force his way onto the team. Too good.
     
  11. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't agree with folks on Berhalter's future roster choices. But it's not worth getting into.

    What I will say is that there are a set of younger CDMs that could possibly play that QB role eventually beyond Durkin. Most are probably too young/not quite there, but Danny Leyva (16), Will Vint (19?), and even Brandon Servania (20) -- who got a lot of stick at the U20s but was more misused could really develop into strong passing CDMs who aren't turnstiles on defense.

    That's in addition to Durkin and Sands (who's passing is better than people give him credit).

    I would not put Pomykal in this list. But I would also say that McKennie is actually the best passer of the players we could play at CDM that isn't Bradley. Regardless of where you put Adams ... McKennie can play that passing role and provide more defensive spine. Of course, he also provides more passing in the final third.
     
  12. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    I think so as well but I just don't see a Berhalter/Arena led USMNT having a heavily non-MLS lineup in the spine so I was thinking that if he stayed in MLS, he could be the guy that is marketed around. Maybe they market around Altidore? As long as it's not Bradley or Trapp.

    I could also see MLS trying to overpay to get one of Pulisic/Wes/Adams/Brooks back domestically. This would be a disaster, of course.
     
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  13. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I've never gotten the marketing conspiracy, frankly. Jozy and Bradley wouldn't be on Toronto if the marketing of USMNT players was so important to MLS that they'd try to rig the national team.

    MLS can't afford any of those guys and they wouldn't come.
     
  14. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but have you been watching both the Fox broadcast that highlighted first Trapp (yikes) and then Bradley?

    Even more so, look at the media coverage and in particular, MLSsoccer's coverage. I think there's clearly an MLS focus.

    I'm not sure on MLS' ability to afford those guys, given that they paid $7m/year multi-year contract to peak/declining Bradley, a double digit offer wouldn't be off the table IMO.
     
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  15. Red Card

    Red Card Member

    Mar 3, 1999
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The ussf marketed Alex Morgan ad nauseum. I think it threw her off her game- after 5 goals vs weak Thailand, she only had one more, which was a biggie vs England. It may very well be that MB is part of the marketing strategy for the usmnt and mls.
     
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  16. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    Do you agree that Bradley was one of the three best midfielder in the tournament?
     
  17. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Adams, McKennie and Pomykal are all very good at interchanging, all cover tons of ground and are all tough in the tackle. Set up with Adams as the 6 and McKennie and Pomykal as the duel 8/10's I think it would be very hard to get through that midfield and if Adams makes a run McKennie or Pomykal would cover and do fine. I also like the suggestion of also easily adding Pulisic and switch to a diamond in certain conditions. I thing Ledezma, Mendez and Reyna will soon offer some depth or competition for starts there as well as playing Pulisic there in certain conditions. I can't wait for a year to go by so all the young guys are a year older.
     
  18. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Really? Seeing as we have, outside of McKennie, an MLS midfield and Adams was connecting defense to attack for the Supporters Shield winner just a few months ago, that is a bold statement.

    I assume you are taking Pomykal's effectiveness for a mid-table MLS team as the basis that he can do it? But just ignore that Adams did it?

    I know Adams is a outstanding defensive player. But that doesn't make him a bad player in other areas. I know we all look hard for warts on our players. But it is possible that Adams is good at more than one thing. That NYRB and RBL play him at Bradley's USMNT position because he is very good at all the things that position requires.
     
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  19. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Also need to ask the question of is Bello no longer a top prospect? Everyone is rightly hoping Gloster moves up quickly but seemingly six months ago Bello was considered slightly better and has been injured recently.
     
  20. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Yes. I think the Mexico game showed that we will need three actual CMs against good teams. We can see if Adams for Bradley is enough to keep a 2 man central midfield, we have time. But Adams and Pomykal (or Servania or Holmes or any CM with good defensive instincts) in the roles McKennie and Bradley had would instantly be better on defense. Since teams were marking Bradley and McKennie out of the build up, what do we lose on offense? I don't think we would lose anything. McKennie would then move up to Pulisic's spot. Pulisic would start in Morris's spot and become a pinched in winger. This makes the box in the 3-2-2-3:

    McKennie-----Pulisic
    Adams------Holmes/Pomykal

    Which is kind of what GB had in mind in January anyway. Too bad Adams and Holmes were hurt, I wonder if we would have ended the tournament this way.

    Pomykal or Holmes could probably play for Adams if needed. But Servania is also on the verge of taking a step up to, imo. McKennie could play one of those spots if needed too. Mendez, Ledezma, Lletjet, Aaronsen could be depth at McKennie's spot. Ledezma, Weah, Lletjet, Boyd would be depth at Pulisic's spot.

    We have time. But we should at least find out in the next 6 months whether Adams can do it.
     
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  21. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    On My Squatty Potty
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did a single journalist ask GGG about Boyd being completely dropped?
     
  22. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Atlanta seems to be the place U17 prospects go to die.

    Gloster is older and played well for the U20s. Excelling for the U20 YNT has never put you far from the USMNT, historically. KHF is also a great LB prospect. It is better to be choosing from 5-6 U23s for a position, rather than putting everything on an 18 year old.
     
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  23. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Nobody has and I guess nobody will. IMO, this points to them being told off the record not to ask. That he probably has a minor injury and nobody wants to jeopardize his move to Besiktas. In the long run, Boyd playing in the UCL is probably as important as him playing in the GC Final.

    If Boyd makes the move, and being quiet about his not playing helps with that, it would be an example of our kitten soft press corps being useful. Haha.
     
  24. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Fire Crown 4 Life (or until they change it again)
    Jan 9, 2004
    Soldier Field Media Deck. First Row.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union


    :whistling:
     
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  25. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I don't think he's like JK at all, but I do think people coming up w/these lovely little midfields are engaging in wishful thinking. Maybe it's paid off, maybe he isn't the idiot who chose the 23 he chose for the Gold Cup, maybe that was entirely a byproduct of the U20 WC, and U23 training also overlapping. Maybe come the fall, there will be sanity, and not this MLS obsessed horse manure we saw at the Gold Cup. Maybe. But shouldn't we go w/what his choices so far illustrate about his preferences?

    That to me suggests a working First XI of some amalgamation of:

    Pulisic, Altidore, Arriola
    McKennie, Bradley, Yedlin
    Miazga or Long, JAB, Adams, and the LB (Cannon moved over there?)

    Needless to say, that's a horror show, but it does reflect his seeming preferences in the Gold Cup, and w/players unavailable due to injury (Yedlin, JAB, Adams). This makes sense as his choice, even if it's moronic.

    We'll see what happens, I'm not expecting anything good, the Gold Cup was supposed to be the Red Line, but people felt they could whitewash the horror show 23, and just as bad XI's from the vantage point of "injury," and "unavailability". Regardless, until we see different we probably should lean towards an expectation that he'll go w/what he's familiar with until he's so battered w/reality, he has no choice.

    Personally my First XI if everybody's available?

    FW: Altidore/Wood or Sargent

    MF: Pulisic, McKennie, Adams, Weah

    D: Lima, Battle between Miazga, Long, and JAB and at RB Cannon.

    Contenders for playing time and start not listed:

    Fwd: Nova, Siebatcheu

    MF: Arriola, Boyd, Acosta, Pomykal,

    Def: Robinson, Gloster, Richards, Yedlin

    K: Horvath

    Trying to think of other guys, but this probably kind of covers it (and yes I'm sure I missed some).

    I'd shelve Bradley until I have friendlies where guys are out for olympic qualifying, and for camp cupcake, if the Caps record is that big a deal, I'd limit appearances to that, or move on entirely (and I'd go w/the latter because I believe the past year was more than enough of a thank you to him, especially considering the banishments that were given subtly to other players).
     
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