Mourin-heave-ho!

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by BalanceUT, Dec 28, 2019.

  1. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    And that comes down to Levy backing the manager, which is unlikely to happen based on his history as chairman. One of the reasons Poch was sacked was because Levy and the board were convinced that the squad, with the summer additions, was good enough to finish in the top 4 and challenge for silverware. That is also why they went for Mourinho rather than a "lesser name". Just wait to see what happens when Mourinho finds out he's not getting the players he wants.
     
  2. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    there are some ITK rumors starting up that Levy is going to back Mourinho in this window (Koulibaly - who's 28! - and others), as he's desperate to stay in the CL. Frankly, I don't believe it; but if it happens … if it happens …

    … I'll probably be livid - backing Mourinho when he didn't back Poch. I mean, I'd hope for the best, and all, but that'd be a real kick in the goolies, eh?
     
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  3. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    With Levy, I will believe it when I see it.
     
  4. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    yeah, I can't see it, either. at least, not whole hog.

    I mean, he went in for Ndombele - spent big and early enough. But with the summer's other targets, it was the same ol', same 'ol. I wouldn't be hugely shocked if we did something during the window, which would definitely be a change from the past. But I can't see him changing his basic methods, and certainly not to the extent that we all suspect Mourinho will require.

    Just sack Mourinho, bring in Neil Warnock*, and let's get on with it.


    *that's a joke, by the way.
     
  5. adrenaline11

    adrenaline11 Member+

    Jul 29, 2010
    Toronto
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    But regardless of who the manager is, do you think this group is good enough to finish in the top four?
     
  6. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    It certainly doesn't appear to be. But for me, I can't blame them (Levy and the board) for it, as I thought the same. And I'm not sure how unreasonable that was considering those players had already done so two or three years in a row.

    Without additions, I could have seen it. But it's not like we didn't bring anyone in last summer. We spent a fair bit. Did anyone envision us being this pants this season? Pretty much everyone had us in the top 3 or 4.
     
  7. Funkfoot

    Funkfoot Member+

    May 18, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    Up until now, the new guys we brought in have had very little impact. I think that is what's been unexpected.
     
  8. adrenaline11

    adrenaline11 Member+

    Jul 29, 2010
    Toronto
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I would've been alright with letting two of Dele/Toby/Rose/Vertonghen/Dembele go in the summer of 2018 even if we had the money to give them all raises. I felt then that we shouldn't keep the same group together if they've shown they can't win anything.

    Going into this year, I had us, Chelsea, Arsenal and United - four teams fighting for two CL spots. Of course I didn't expect Leicester to take one of those spots and then having to fend off Wolves in addition to Chelsea, Arsenal and United for the last spot. Tbh, you can make a real case that we're, at best, the eighth best team in England right now.
     
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  9. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    It's hard to say, because we haven't seen our best team play. None of the new signings have featured regularly and both managers have insisted on playing our worst 3 options in central midfield (Dier-Winks-Sissoko). If Lo Celso can not get a start in an FA Cup tie against a Championship side, when is he going to play? Both managers have also picked Dier ahead of Sanchez or Foyth in defense.

    If you look at the Middlesbrough goal, Winks was nowhere near Saville who played the ball over the top to Fletcher and Dier played him onside. And that was just the goal. Winks didn't lay a glove on their midfield in the 56 minutes he was on the pitch - this is a Championship side we are talking about. In his last start in the PL against Brighton, he gave away the free kick that led to their goal and was lucky not to have got sent off in the 2nd half after another rash challenge on the edge of our box.

    For the life of me I don't understand it. It doesn't work and it hasn't worked for a long time. If you go back to February, we have only won 11 of 33 games in the league. It's funny, if you read the English media, Winks is the second coming of Iniesta or Alonso, if you talk to Spurs fans, they will tell you he's rubbish. I think the fact he came through our academy gives him a pass with the media. The English press love the story of the local lad coming through the club academy, but the academy can also produce rubbish.
     
  10. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    I believe that was what Poch had in mind, but Levy played hardball with the clubs who wanted to buy those players. Levy could have offloaded Toby, Rose and Dier to a gullible Man United for around £120 million and would have got around £20 million for Dembele. Eriksen would probably have fetched around £70 million. That's over £200 million to reinvest in the squad. This is where Levy has killed us on the football side of things.
     
  11. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Big Sam and Tony Pulis are also available. Considering our best attack under Mourinho has been long balls from Alderweireld, we might be tailor made for a Big Sam Revolution. I would also love to see Pulis going potty over Aurier.
     
  12. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Big Sam and Tony Pulis are also available. Considering our best attack under Mourinho has been long balls from Alderweireld, we might be tailor made for a Big Sam Revolution. I would also love to see Pulis going potty over Aurier.
     
  13. adrenaline11

    adrenaline11 Member+

    Jul 29, 2010
    Toronto
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Eventually you run into the same dilemma that Poch and Mourinho have run into, which is that Eriksen is one of the 11 best players at the club right now. We can't live with him and we can't live without him.

    FWIW, I'd rip the band off and just get whatever I can from Inter for him. In saying that, I also accept that the performances could get even worse in the short term.

    I don't agree that he's rubbish at all. I will say that he's out of form right now and that's to be expected of any footballer. He's also 23. We need to accept that young players make more mistakes than more experienced ones and that's just how development works.

    We're not in a position right now where we can afford to loan nor sell him.
     
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  14. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    He is 24 actually, is useless defensively, is slow, weak in the challenge and can't make a decisive pass forward. He is one of the reasons we have been poor for a while now. We have better options in midfield, why we don't use them is beyond me. Did you watch the game on Sunday? He was dreadful, their midfield ran circles around him.
     
  15. adrenaline11

    adrenaline11 Member+

    Jul 29, 2010
    Toronto
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    He plays because Dier can't play every game and because our CB's aren't good enough at 1v1 defending where we can play without a DM.

    The reality is we're not City or Liverpool. Every central midfield pairing we play with will have clear weaknesses.

    I also think Winks is playing below his usual standard. I wouldn't agree with letting him go if that's what you're saying.
     
  16. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Let him go? Who would want him?
     
  17. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    I could see United, they are quite gullible, but City suprises me, where would he play in their side? They have better options in their reserves.
     
  18. pookspur

    pookspur Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    Indiana
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    no idea whether or why he's wanted at either, but the salient point is that Winks has more to offer than what we've been seeing. You're right that he's been highly ineffective recently. but he can pass the ball forward from deep to start the attack - not unlike Carrick did with us back in the day. we're just not seeing that now as Mourinho has bypassed the midfield, so there's no one showing for the ball. Hell, there's practically no movement off the ball in the middle third at all, from what little I've seen over the last month or so.

    You're also correct in that he's utterly ineffective at breaking up attacks, so he needs to have the right player(s) around him to be effective. We really don't have that/those players right now, and he suffers. So when you say he's been shite, I'm not arguing. And if you say we should move him on, I'll concede the rationality in that. But even if it appears that he's worthless to us at the moment, it's pretty clear that he's not worthless. I want him to stay and to succeed at Spurs (but then, admittedly, I say that about damn near everyone who wears the shirt). But you're right in saying that he's not going to, at least as we're setting up now.
     
  19. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
  20. Lazy Assed Assassin

    Jul 21, 2015
    I’ll be truly bent if Levy backs Mourinho in a way he didn’t back Pochettino.
     
    BalanceUT repped this.
  21. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Then what is the point of paying Mourinho £15 million a year if you're not going to back him?
     
  22. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Same could have been said about Poch.
     
  23. Golara

    Golara Member+

    Aug 3, 2007
    Poch was getting 8.5 mil, actually, and is getting a severance of 12.5 million. We could have got Jack Grealish for half he money Levy is paying both managers this season.
     
  24. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Time to bump this?
     

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