Monday 19 Aug 2019

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Stuart95, Aug 19, 2019.

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  1. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The US's major conservative party has migrated so far to the right that it is out of step with mainstream American values like being anti-fascist and wanting Americans to not die in mass shootings. This was the only place left for it to go after it became the de facto nativist party after the Civil Rights Act, which is a shame for all of us, including actual Conservatives.
     
  2. Stuart95

    Stuart95 Member+

    Mar 11, 2012
    NoVA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Having been one of those military heroes of the match (at a Rapids game), thanks for clapping even if you felt compelled. FWIW you'd probably be surprised at the personal politics of many military members ... it is just that we're required by law to refrain from appearing to take sides.
     
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  3. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Not a fan of the nut cakes on the far right who seem to set that political agenda. But unfortunately the nut cakes on the far left with their suppression of opposition to their social regimentation have far more in common with the far right than they do with the people that hold mainstream american values. If that were not true, there is no way an embarrassment like Trump would be in the white house.
     
  4. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's exactly what people say about the left to justify voting for a racist, semi literate, goon. Everything you just wrote is complete and utter nonsense. Nazis and white supremacists are not equivalent to people that espouse anti facist and anti racist beliefs.

    Punching a nazi versus mass murdering innocent people of a different race or religion will never ever be the same no matter how much you want it to be.
     
  5. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't make any assumptions about the political beliefs of folks that've served in the US military; I don't object to the individuals at all. What I object to is the intentional conflation of cheering for the US military / police and cheering for a sports team.
     
  6. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I didn't say anything about "nut cakes" on either side; I'm talking specifically about the political institution that is the Republican Party. As an institution, it deserted true Conservative values and people that hold them some time ago and has basically become the nativist / oligarchic wing of our politic (nativism and oligarchy being the key ingredients for fascism). It means Conservatives are basically ignored by both parties which indeed opened the door for Trump.

    I don't know what anyone refers to when they say the "far-Left" in the United States or this "radical" Leftist agenda. Democrats are preparing to sell Americans on "radical" concepts like free education and healthcare, which have been adopted in the first world for a half-century.
     
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  7. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Your opening statement is a perfect example of how distorted the lenses are that so may view the world . My post had virtually nothing to do with this particular topic but instead how extremely warped the views of so many have become. Reading these arguments from both sides is similar to watching a bunch of Mr Magoo's screaming about how blind everyone else is.
     
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  8. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Selling free is wonderful. Everyone loves free stuff for everyone until currencies get devalued and what left of a country is controlled by people that behave a lot like the Nazi's in Germany and not the large chunk of people called Nazi's by those on the far left.
     
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  9. Dirt McGirt

    Dirt McGirt Member+

    Jun 20, 2005
    Phoenix, AZ
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is one if classic far right arguments. Call everyone a nazi until the meaning is devalued and blame the left for everything. ******** off with that white supremacist bullshit. You rail against concepts you can't explain and vote against your best interests out of fear.
     
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  10. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. Pack87Man

    Pack87Man BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 1, 2001
    Quad Cities
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just off the top of my head, I can think of two flaws, one which probably isn't a big deal and one that is. Firstly, and probably not a huge deal, is that there is always a knot of people who just don't want to work for some reason, good or bad. I doubt you will ever get full employment for that reason.

    Second, I think this theory assumes a level of governmental control that modern countries simply don't have. The surest way to make money in currency trading is said to be betting against a government because they simply do not own enough of the money to make a dent in the prevailing market forces. If, like in this theory, they simply created more, the runaway inflation would do them in before they got to the part about taxing out the excess cash.
     
  12. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @Pack87Man

    1. MMT isn’t really about full employment. The concept is that if a country denominates its debt in its own currency, there should be no relationship between spending and revenue. Instead, government should spend money if the project is worthwhile, and if inflation isn’t a problem. So it really applies to, I guess, the US, China, maybe a few other nations. Certainly the economic history of Japan over the last 20-30 years proves conventional economics doesn’t work in the modern world. If Japan not only doesn’t have hyperinflation, but actually has too little inflation, conventional economics has some ‘splainin’ to do.
    2. The whole point of MMT is that government spending is decoupled completely from revenue! Instead, it is all about inflation! Runaway inflation is literally impossible with properly implemented MMT. When inflation gets too high (meaning demand is outstripping supply; that’s what inflation is, after all) government just slashes spending until demand matches supply.

    There’s an MMT thread in politics and current events, and it was visited by an actual professor who was recruited to University of Missouri-KC, which is a hotbed for MMT, and he explains it better. I completely get where you’re coming from. You’ve walked into a room and the light fixtures are on the floor, and the chairs are on the ceiling. You have to figure out why the hell that is.

    Just to get to the spoiler, the flaw is in my 2nd point. As a theoretical model, it’s hard to figure out why MMT won’t work. As a practical matter, in a democracy, elected officials probably won’t slash spending and/or raise taxes to get supply and demand in sync when inflation starts to be a problem. But that’s a problem with the politics, not the economics.

    I also had a question about government debt held by foreign nations. I didn’t really understand the professor’s answer. That’s probably a variation to your 2nd point.

    One of Bernie Sanders’ top economic advisers (maybe his top adviser) is an MMT advocate, so if by chance he gets nominated, I’m sure MMT will get a thorough public vetting. For now, it’s just a fun thing to think about.
     
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  13. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Barely coherent. I'm not even arguing a political opinion, I'm just curious about what you think the "Far-Left" is? Like, name a Far-Left policy?
     
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  14. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #39 MPNumber9, Sep 15, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
    MMT isn't really a theory; it's a basic fact of double-entry accounting. It also isn't really new -- it's pretty much old school Keynesian economics, the kind that inspired the New Deal. The extent to which it seems controversial is a testament to how 40 years of neoclassical economic orthodoxy -- the last 20 or so of which has been codified into bad neoliberal policies like NAFTA and the Maastricht Treaty -- has demonized government spending and robbed governments of one of its most influential tools to stabilize economies: fiscal policy. Milton Friedman and Reagan (Thatcher overseas) used the specter of inflation (with people still reeling from the bad stagflation of the 70s) to make any kind of government spending an evil. Since then, both Republicans and Democrats have been complicit in shrinking government.

    A few folks I know are who really into MMT and its potential to re-frame the conversation on government spending are leaving out the most important factor on why governments don't spend today and it's not because the majority of people are averse to govt spending. Remember, that the last President actually elected by a majority couldn't get a budget through congress, not becuase Americans didn't support it. Big firms fought it (well, politicians did on their behalf) for the same reason they've demonized govt spending for years -- if you believe in the concept of the government giving you a job when a firm won't, it's only a logical hop, skip and a jump to outright socialism.

    "Wait -- if I could vote to fund a huge infrastructure project in my community that would give me a meaningful job and a good wage -- why the !@$% would I choose to work at WalMart?" Well, you wouldn't. No one would. And WalMart wouldn't be super-mega-giant company. And so implementing MMT has the same hurdle as anything else -- not convincing the public, but overcoming the powerful moneyed interests who stand to lose a lot by this and have their tentacles all over the levers of our democracy. I mean, the EU nations do not even have fiscal sovereignty, renderiing the MMT debate moot for a large portion of the world's 1st world nations. Still, I'm glad people are discussing it; embedded in the concept of MMT is a great truth I wish people would grasp hold of: the government can be a democratically controlled universal employer.
     
  15. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
  16. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    Yes, it did take me this long to read his tweet. But I'm not making the big bucks!
     
  17. sitruc

    sitruc Member+

    Jul 25, 2006
    Virginia
    He didn't misspell anything. That was very intentional and proves he gets along with Quincy Amarikwa.
     
  18. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOL at the "Keep politics out of sports" herbs.

    I'm pretty damn sure that if my saying "Fascists are bad, racism is bad, and everyone who is down with fascism and racism can get ********ed in thirty different ways" at a sporting event offends your delicate sensibilities, you're the one who needs to be out of sports, not my "politics."

    And ******** off with any "oh, but what about the free speech of fascists and racists." I'm not down with the free speech for pedophiles, either. If you're a fascist or a racists, you're with the pedophiles in my book. Y'all go sit in the corner and discuss the merits of subjugating people based solely on their skin color or the merits of ********ing children. Yeah, I just basically lumped racists and fascists and pedophiles together. Change my mind, I triple-dog dare you.

    "Oh, but that particular symbol has been used by Some Very Bad People." Yes, my thoughts and prayers to all the teeth that were separated from the mouths of white supremacists who were allegedly just minding their own business and TOTALLY not advocating for the extermination and subjugation of entire swaths of humanity.

    Seriously, a bunch of y'all love Dr. King now that he's dead, but 60 years ago, y'all would've been telling every single person with a microphone or a notepad that he and his crew were just a bunch of troublemakers who need to be sent back north. It ain't anything but a bunch of clucking from you hens about the Iron Front symbol and how dare they display that horrible thing, so much so that time just got away from you and you couldn't come up with any sort of alternative "hey, racism and fascism are bad, y'all" display.

    That might make a guy wonder if some of y'all prioritize the punctuality of the railways over all other things.
     
  19. wantmlsphilly

    wantmlsphilly Member+

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #44 wantmlsphilly, Sep 17, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
    1173642179224440833 is not a valid tweet id

    Yea, it's their extremism that's the problem. MLK was a pacifist but just like a fascist you just labeled everyone who disagrees with you.
    .
    Welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss.
     
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  20. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think you're right but there are very few first teamers getting less than $100k. Marlon Hairston is #19 on cheapskate Houston's roster, making $155k base.

    Tony Rocha is a good example of someone who would benefit from $100k minimum.

    I think $70k is a good base for a teenager starting out his career. It's way above the average household income in the US.

    Gone are the days of 22 year-old draft picks making $36k.
     
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  21. GreenRaver

    GreenRaver Member

    Seattle Sounders FC
    May 31, 2018
    Bothell, Cascadia
    Nat'l Team:
    Qatar
     
  22. GreenRaver

    GreenRaver Member

    Seattle Sounders FC
    May 31, 2018
    Bothell, Cascadia
    Nat'l Team:
    Qatar
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  23. ElJefe

    ElJefe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 16, 1999
    Colorful Colorado
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m pretty goddamned OK with labeling anyone who wants to advocate for an ideology that has a body count in the millions in the last century, and is pretty unapologetic about that body count.

    The racists and fascists can have a seat with the kiddie-diddlers and contemplate the notion that some philosophies are objectively bad and deserve nothing but scorn.
     
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  24. wantmlsphilly

    wantmlsphilly Member+

    Aug 2, 2006
    Philadelphia, Pa.
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thinking it's a choice between good evil and bad evil is the problem when nobody wants fascist to begin with. It's the mob mentality that is gotten out of hand and is no better than fascism as much as you want to compare numbers. Socialist and communist rack up just as many and populate many of the group's associated with iron front just like in the picture above. My problem is thinking these angry mobs are never going to make a mistake inside a soccer stadium. They've already made plenty of mistakes on the streets of Portland already. If MLS bans people for life, all I can say is bye you knew the rules.
     
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  25. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    <mic drop>
     

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