Modric vs Zidane

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by JoCryuff98, Dec 5, 2018.

?

Who’s the better player?

  1. Luka Modric

    1 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. Zinedine Zidane

    4 vote(s)
    80.0%
  1. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Lukita or Zizou
     
  2. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #2 carlito86, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
    Modric cannot match him in technique and whatever technical ability entails goals,assists,dribbling,big match mentality,consistency,club level,international level

    Btw Modric being part of a historic club team isn’t an argument within itself
    It’s clear cut zidane was the best Real Madrid player in their 2001/02 champions league winning season playing on a team that had a similar level of quality as the one played on by modric.

    I have yet to see a single champions league campaign where modric was even the clear undisputed 2nd player in the way Di Maria was in 2013/14 for example

    Prime zidane was able to do everything modric can do plus more(the ability to be a match winner on multiple occasions is something modric never was)

    Zidane controlled games like a CMF a la Xavi but also scored at the rate of a attacking midfielder like Ronaldinho or maradona (in open play goals)
    The comp above should go along way to convincing you zidane wasn’t overrated or overhyped as I believe you do consider him to be

    Zidane wasn’t about 10min YouTube highlight reels of ball skills in uncrowded areas
    Zidane controlled games but he did it with flair and panache.that is what endeared him to fans who watched him during his prime
    If you require some performances I can share them with you but I can assure you as great as he is modric stands a snowballs chance in hell of equalling zidanes legacy
     
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  3. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
  4. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Nothing in that comp suggests proves that he wasn’t overrated. In fact, his elegant style of play doesn’t cover up his overratedness.
     
  5. schwuppe

    schwuppe Member+

    Sep 17, 2009
    Club:
    FC Kryvbas Kryvyi Rih
    Please delete this thread
     
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  6. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    :laugh:

    The number 1 criticism of Zidane is always his goals and assists (pre-assists?). Modric is that to the max, and this past year he had also his 'invisible' games where he drifted in and out...



    What a strange curve/development in appreciation Modric had in his career.... Receiving his fame when he is actually past his peak.

    https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/12/0...-modric-croatia-real-madrid-cristiano-ronaldo
     
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  7. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    This reminds me of the Iniesta (or Xavi for that matter) comparisons with Zidane that sprouted in various forums in the early 2010s. Mayhaps all posters interested in such comparisons should publish their historical top-50 players' lists. That might help the contributors to the thread understand where such posters are coming from, in terms of their own player tiers and criteria.

    Would like to add though that Modric did manage one trick that Iniesta (or Xavi) never could and that was to win the Ballon d'Or. The fact that he was able to deliver a World Cup performance good enough to win a Golden Ball award and and do it in the same year as when he won the CL with his club team, lay the groundwork for his eventual dethroning of CRonaldo/Messi. Iniesta couldn't manage that (or Xavi) though they definitely didn't lack in terms of opportunities.
     
  8. JoCryuff98

    JoCryuff98 Member+

    Barcelona
    Netherlands
    Jan 3, 2018
    Nat'l Team:
    Netherlands
    Modric did not have a better WC than Xavi or Iniesta LOL.
     
  9. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    #9 carlito86, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
    He most definitely had a comparable World Cup performance to iniesta

    Castrol top 10 ranked players
    49A6A62E-F6FB-44A8-9F8D-063A432D981B.jpeg
    5 Spanish players made the cut but no space for Xavi or iniesta
    At least modric was considered unanimous top 5 material at worst.many players outperformed iniesta over the course of that tournament.

    when iniesta scored the winning goal in the final everyone started to suffer from amnesia and the narrative that he was great all along started to come into fruition

    Now According to various match ratings compiled by the guardian:
    In the round of 16 vs Portugal iniesta was the 5th highest ranked performer on his team

    In the quarterfinals vs Paraguay iniesta was the 3rd highest ranked performer on his team

    In the semifinals vs Germany iniesta was the 3rd highest ranked player in his team

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jun/30/world-cup-2010-player-ratings-table
    In the final third vs the Netherlands he was MOTM.
    It is widely acknowledged he won the that award because he scored the winner.
    arjen robben was over the course of the final more involved and dangerous than iniesta had been at any stage during the entire tournament

    Perhaps you should’ve continued the other thread you started (modric vs iniesta) because against zidane neither player stands any chance at all.

    Remember zidane was 3x world player of the year ,best player in two different league(was voted foreign best player in Serie A twice in 1997 and 2001 and won the don balon award for best foreign player in La Liga in 2002)

    He was the best player in the champions league 01/02 according to many sources,MOTM in a World Cup final 1998,motm in a champions final 2002(more deserved than iniestas fraudulent award in 2015)
    Best player in Euro 2000

    Modric and iniesta cannot compare to any of the achievements I have just listed
     
  10. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    My point was that Modric did well enough with a relatively weaker team (when compared to his direct competitors), and therefore got the recognition needed during the course of the World Cup tournament, to go on and win the Golden Ball. Iniesta or Xavi didn't make the Golden Ball podium in their best World Cup tournament (Forlan, Sneijder and Villa had that honour) in spite of playing for a comparatively loaded team, and behind a forward in red-hot form.

    Also, with a loaded team Pedro can look as good as Ronaldinho from his hey days, that doesn't mean he'll get the same recognition though. Both Iniesta and Xavi had the opportunity but failed to make the most of it individually, by putting up the kind of legendary performances that are expected from all-timers placed in such favourable situations. They definitely did well enough to win the big prize along with their team, but that obviously wasn't quite enough to get the necessary individual recognition.

    Anyway, care to share you top-50 to allow us to understand your criteria?
     
  11. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Has anyone ever accomplished what Xavi-Iniesta did between 08-12?

    2008: EURO
    2009: League + Cup + UCL Treble
    2010: League + World Cup
    2011: League + UCL
    2012: League + Cup + EURO

    Their claim to fame is their incredible consistency in winning at both the club and national level.

    However, that's not the recipe for winning individual awards.
     
  12. carlito86

    carlito86 Member+

    Jan 11, 2016
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Sergio Ramos won a World Cup,2 European championships+ 4 champions league titles since 2008
    In my book that is more impressive then the added minor trophies you included (like the copa Del Rey for example)

    Xavi/iniesta did not win the league in 2012
    No matter how many times @leadleader seems to repeat this myth it simply doesn’t make it true
     
  13. poetgooner

    poetgooner Member+

    Arsenal
    Nov 20, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    True, that's just my memory failing me.

    Ramos record is perhaps more impressive. He was the hero in a few of those titles. I only pointed out Xavi and Iniesta's record because it was 5 consecutive years of winning, which is very rare.
     
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  14. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    What you shared above is a great run of trophies, and these two were definitely the common thread within it. But I think you are selling some other players short by holding up this run in particular. Off the top of my head (excluding domestic cups as I believe that those are not at par) -

    Toni Kroos - 2013 Treble, 2014 WC+League, 2016 CL, 2017 CL+League, 2018 CL (missed out in 2015 but not due to lack of consistency on his part, and is only 28 so there is room for more; included for recency's sake and as consistency was brought up)

    Roberto Carlos - 1997 CA+League, 1998 CL, 1999 CA, 2000 CL, 2001 League, 2002 WC+CL (as it includes another WC final, this run is probably the most exceptional, though he had a weak year in 2001. His ESM inclusions speak for themselves as he had 34 in only 11 seasons in the top-4 leagues, which get most of the nominations. He received a Ballon d'Or 2nd place as well during this run, btw)

    Van Basten - 1987 CWC+League, 1988 Euro, 1989 EC+League, 1990 EC (quite good for a guy who played his last game at 29. This run is followed, after an year's break, with an unbeaten league title winning campaign; so there is that too)

    Beckenbauer - 1972 Euro, 1973 League, 1974 WC+EC+League, 1975 EC, 1976 EC
    (weak year in 1973, but great otherwise and almost always highly rated on an individual level)

    There would be more which I'm missing, but the above IMO are at a similar level for a varying set of reasons. And while they might lack the symmetry of having 2 Euros, sandwiching 2 CL wins, sandwiching a WC, I think they have other things going for them which are just as impressive.

    Elephant in the room is of course the fact that Iniesta or Xavi individually, were rarely the main protagonists of their team's triumphs, so much so that mentioning one without the other seems like an injustice.
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    With all due respect;

    You always mention Zidane's number of ESM team of the month selections, and how that stacks up in his own era.

    When Kroos won those CL things he had one in 2013, zero in 2016, one in 2017, zero in 2018. Modric has one in 2014, one in 2016, one in 2017 and one in 2018. Iniesta has only one in 2006, 2015; Xavi one and zero in these years, but both feature way more prominently in 2009 and 2011. ESM is as always heavily influenced by European games.

    (To be clear: I actually think there is a good case for Modric being the best midfielder since Xavi, and he is a proper footballer for sure)
     
  16. Estel

    Estel Member+

    May 5, 2010
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Don't disagree there, going by ESM, Iniesta and Xavi clearly top Modric and Kroos.
     

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