MLS Teams in Copa Libertadores

Discussion in 'Copa Libertadores / Sudamericana' started by anewsoccerfan, Aug 14, 2007.

  1. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Yes, i COMPLETELY understand what you mean. Imagine the Columbus crew going to La Bombonera??? And pissing their pants hahahaha. (have nothing against the crew)

    But MLS is trying their ass off to catch up, and look bro when mexico teams first started playing in the CL(chivas and America was it?) they didnt just all start making it to the final 8, in fact losing after making it to the group stages, but with that said alot of the great talent that they(mexico) attract too also go to there to have the chance to shine(maybe go to europe if they do well) and earn more money with these mexican sides. Its no lie that they pay waaaay better than Argentina and Brasil. Money walks, BS Talks.


    With that said, i am confident that if the US are given the opp. to play in the CL, yes they will get probably stomped the first or second year, but after that they will be better. Why? They will attract more attention from SA, = better players that would love to live in the US and play for a US side that probably will pay better than where they are at.

    Its all progression. But i will admit MLS teams will get their asses handed to them by big clubs like the big ones frmo Argentina, actually most clubs in argentina and in brasil.

    But it takes progression. I cant stress that enough.


    Personally though, i rather have only SA teams in the CL, but its no lie that alot of if not most of the money the CL makes is because of Mexican viewers. So if that sacred bond has already been broken, screw it why not let in the US too? Or yea maybe saprissa also! They are a great club too! But right now i am more PRO mls cause i one day wish i can see my DC United play there, which was founded on bolivian blood. :p
     
  2. Naui_Ocelotl

    Naui_Ocelotl Member

    Apr 3, 2008
    As an outsider in CONMEBOL competitions I shouldn't be opposed to MLS teams in Copa Libertadores (and i'm not) but MLS still has a long way to go before deserving a chance, maybe in 7,8,9 years time. Right now MLS clubs struggle against Central American sides and yet they want to compete in Libertadores? They have to get serious about fixing existing problems in MLS such as a low standard of football, lack of promotion/relegation, that ridiculous calendar for the season and not to mention that the "face" of the league (Beckham) seems more interested in selling underwear and t-shirts in Asia than playing football.

     
  3. el chuntaro

    el chuntaro New Member

    Apr 7, 2007
    Neverland Ranch
    Good post F.C RATM you pretty much wrote what I wanted to say....On a side note I think MLS will be a pretty strong league in the 10 years if the American public gets into it....The MLS seems to be getting alot of African Players and they are usually very quick and stong thats something most Teams in the Americas does not have.....
     
  4. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Yes i will agree with you. Great post by F.C. RATM.

    First well thought out, polite, and neutral post i have seen in a LONG TIME!(By a mexican poster, Not saying that all mexicans are like this but most that try to make points against turn rude and just dont know how to stay polite)

    With that said he touched on many great points, yes the 98' teams probably were stronger than the 08' MLS squads right now, and i agree MLS should probably wait a little more time before sticking their hand in that cookie jar. But it seems like they dont want to, and take advantage of all the exposure they are getting with Beckham, and also it is sort of unfair to write off Beck's as being just a show pony not interested in winning or doing good with his club, and having hidden intentions.

    He did come to the US to expand his brand, but its not like he is here just to do that, he cares about the galaxy, and when they were playing bad you could see the frustration on his face. You could also see how happy and serious he takes the games. I take you havent seen much of him so far this season? Last i checked he was the leading assists leader in the MLS, and has scored 2 goals in one game so far. He is here to play and not to just look pretty. He even still played injured when he came from Real madrid off a ankle twist, and then played like 80 percent vs. Pachuca and had that bad knee collision that put him out for the rest of the season!! Tell me that isnt heart! He saw the galaxy needed him and stepped up even though he wasnt 100percent.

    Yes i agree theyre season is screwed, but rumor is this will change to go along with the rest of the world in the coming years, the commissioner has hinted towards it and having a 1 table schedule too.

    And for the most part though MLS sides have not had trouble with Central American Squads. The only ones that put up a good fight beyond mexican opposition is Costa Rican sides. For instance DC United ate up Olimpia from Honduras beating them 4-1(in honduras) in 07 and i believe 3-1 at home. And Dynamo Beat Puntarenas from Costa Rica in the two game series to face Pachuca, holding them to 1-0 only home game result, and winning 2-1 in Houston. DC Also when playing Chivas came out with a mission when they tied at home, and Scored the first goal in Estadio Jalisco. And played well up until the keeper let in a goal by mistake from the ball being wet(dumb mistake on keeper). To say that MLS teams don't put up good fights though is missing the point.

    Right now IMO MLS is elite over Central American Sides, ANY! And about on the Level of Costa Rican's 2 top teams. Mexican teams though are still more talented as they have proven over the years in the Copa Libertadores.

    But how good would they be right now if they never participated in the CL?? I wonder how much better MLS will get if they are allowed to participate also.
     
  5. dc0011

    dc0011 New Member

    Apr 26, 2006
    I think they should give MLS and perhaps some other teams in Central American and the Caribbean stops on the qualification round. Now you probably think this is a stupid idea, but i think i would add some interest to the cup. Recently to me, the cup has lost some of its spark, and I don't know about you, but i get bored of seen Brazilian and Argentinian teams play in every single group, wining and going trough most of the time.

    Now, I'm not jealous or anything, but i like to see teams from other countries in the last sixteen too, it adds diversion. Now I'm not saying these teams will qualified for the last sixteen because they probably won't; but i think if you take the number 5 and 6 from Brazil and number 5 spot from Argentina and put teams from a different country instead will give interest to the cup by reducing the possible 11 teams in the last 16 from Bra. and Arg. to an 8. This will actually give more chances to teams from other countries.

    Now you say can not happen because they suck. That might be true, but there is always that one team that becomes the interesting underdog. Take in example Artmenia Bratislava from Slovakia in the Champions League of 05-06. They came from the very first qualification stage and qualified for the group stage. In that group stage they came just 2 points away from qualifing to the last 16 ending the group with Inter-11pts, Rangers 7, Artmenia 6, and Oporto 5. This is just one of the many cases when a small team has stepped up a notch and giving excitement to the cup. I think we should try this at least once to see what the outcome is. And go from there. But then again this is my own opinion.
     
  6. Nuclear_Attack

    Nuclear_Attack New Member

    Sep 13, 2007
    No. A million times no.
    If anything the Libertadores has to limit the number of clubs. to many crappy clubs in this competition.
     
  7. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Haha. Ur a damn fool if you think that.
     
  8. Naui_Ocelotl

    Naui_Ocelotl Member

    Apr 3, 2008
    You have a good point. I don't understand how México, Colombia, Chile, etc. can have the same number of representatives as countries with a much lower standard of quality football. Some teams are just in the Copa to fill in the required 38 total, it probably has to do with CONMEBOL politics.
     
  9. Visca...

    Visca... Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    ATL
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    umm, they belong to CONMEBOL and they pay their dues. Let's not turn Libertadores into the dull competition that is the Champions League.
     
  10. dc0011

    dc0011 New Member

    Apr 26, 2006
    Thats because they are all CONMEBOL teams. And if anything Mexico will be the one with less clubs since he is invited.
     
  11. Naui_Ocelotl

    Naui_Ocelotl Member

    Apr 3, 2008
    I'm aware México participate as invitees but our clubs contribute positively to the competition unlike say San José de Oruro, UA Maracaibo or Coronel Bolognesi (with all due respect, of course). Do you really think it's fair that Bolivia, Venezuela and Perú have the same spots as México, Colombia and Chile, based on football merits?
     
  12. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Yes because these clubs have had the chance/have been participating for yeaaaars, and to not let them would be a crock. If that happened i would totally boycott the CL. Why because they are somewhat poorer than say mexican teams or brasilian teams, aregentine, chilean,etc... do they not deserve a chance at playing a tournament that has been done for years and they have been participating in?


    But who knows the conmbol has been known to be persuaded by enough money, like the saying goes money talks.

    These SA clubs all deserve a chance even though they are poor and not well known, they all still have long traditions in their own countries. Could you tell a hincha for that team a reason why they dont deserve to play? Think of it that way.
     
  13. Naui_Ocelotl

    Naui_Ocelotl Member

    Apr 3, 2008
    True that they've been playing for many years but also have been embarassing for many years. I'll say it again money is not everything, look at Paraguayan and Uruguayan clubs they're poor but they advance to the round of 16 and at least focus on developing they're own talent instead of importing awful players for example Zenoni(US) and Manique(Brasil) for La Paz FC and Cienciano respectively. Like you said they've been participating for years and never improve. I would say incorporate more previous rounds to eliminate those that have nothing to do in the competition. I'm not saying don't let them play i'm saying make them earn their place, Let's make it more fair.
     
  14. dc0011

    dc0011 New Member

    Apr 26, 2006
    Based on merits it is not, but this is not the world cup where the continent with most powerhouses gets more spots. This is CL and it is fair as it is; and if there was something to be unfair, would be to make the weak teams eliminate each other and have the best teams not go through that hustle. And with all the respect, specially Mexican teams. Mexican teams are better because they have more money, and you can't say it's not because thats the truth. And just because they're better/richer doesn't give them any right to get special benefits, especially because like you said they are invitees. It's like saying ok we are going to have English teams on our cup now, they are the best so lets get the small teams out or aside so we can put the English on group/last 16 stage straight instead. It's just irrational and plain unfair. An also club singing are the club's business, you can't bash at a team for getting a player. You never know maybe they work better for them, maybe not, but in the end it's their business and that is not reason to criticize a team.
     
  15. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Yes, it is true about bolivia, but thats their problem. There was a tiime where they would throw out good teams to the CL, but times are messed up right now. Look at venezuela, at one point they were a joke to play in nationally and at the club level, but now they are serious competition! Its unfair to rule countries out, that just causes them more problems especially since theyve been in the tournament longer than Mexico who has no rights as it is to demand much, let alone have 3 spots.
     
  16. Naui_Ocelotl

    Naui_Ocelotl Member

    Apr 3, 2008
    Of course Mexican clubs are good in part because of money, I never denied that. I never suggested any special benefits either but even though we mexicans are invitees we deserve to be treated as equals. Mexican teams are in CL to stay imo, if not invitees than as the result of a CONCACAF/CONMEBOL merge which I think will eventualy happen.

    Believe it or not I want Bolivia, Perú, etc to improve, it's in everyones best interest. Considering Bolivia have 3 CL spots it's also CONMEBOL's problem, they should have a program similar to FIFA's GOAL program to help out. With the Tahuichi Aguilera acadamey Bolivia have something to build upon. My comment about foreign player signings was to reference the fact that things are not being run well in terms of youth development in say Bolivia, Perú even México.
    México has, as I said before, contributed positively to CL and if anything should have more than 3 spots
     
  17. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Trust me bro, its not that easy. Bolivias got MAJOR issues that is trying to get worked out. Truthfully i wouldnt mind seeing as punishment to them having to loan their spots out to say the MLS or to more compeitive countries like say Costa Rica or watever.

    There is mad Corruption and disorganization in the league right now, not like it was a while back.
     
  18. ElMuneco

    ElMuneco Member

    Jun 27, 2004
    Encinitas, CA
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Ok, here's my take on all of this. The MLS has it's own CONCACAF Champions League starting in September I believe. That will feature clubs from the MLS(DC United & Houston Dynamo), Mexico(Pachuca & Atlante), Canada, along with countries from Central America. That is where MLS clubs should be playing. In their own REGION. Case closed.
     
  19. Bolivianfuego

    Bolivianfuego Your favorite Bolivian

    Apr 12, 2004
    Fairfax, Va
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I somewhat agree with you, but i think hell if they let mexican clubs in why not MLS? If its been broken already why not do it again?

    But personally i dont think MLS teams are ready right now even though they are pushing at the moment behind closed doors to get in.

    They should just try the Sudamericana as a warm up. THEN maybe in a couple of years they might be confident enough and conmbol ready to let in some MLS clubs. or CLUB.

    THe concacaf champ. league is a joke also IMO, beyond Costa Rica, USA, and Mexico the rest of the competition is crap.
     
  20. Visca...

    Visca... Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    ATL
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    Because then we'll be in the Champions League situation and frankly, I don't think anyone would want that. Teams from other countries have to play all these qualification stages. Even the champions from lower countries, don't get a fair share.

    We have seen how predictable and boring the Champions League is compared to Libertadores. I don't want that.
     
  21. Visca...

    Visca... Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    ATL
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    The Champions League in a nutshell.
     
  22. dc0011

    dc0011 New Member

    Apr 26, 2006

    Yeah there is no doubt that Mexican teams are staying. But now you said that the weaker teams should fight for a spot, or that Mexican teams if anything should have more spots, thats benefiting Mexican teams.
     
  23. MetroChile

    MetroChile Member+

    Jan 13, 2001
    NJ; Valpo.
    Club:
    Santiago Wanderers
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    Yea, but it's not necessarily English teams' faults that they are able to get so many teams into the final 4/8. I mean, can you blame them for the gulf in class? :eek: Even if the Champions League were to include teams from every European team in the group stages, do you really see Skonto Riga or Levadia Tallinn going far?? I do agree that the Champions League is more predictable, though.

    Metro
     
  24. Visca...

    Visca... Member

    Sep 13, 2004
    ATL
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    Right. I wasn't faulting the English teams. I was looking at the main picture of the Champs League.

    Yeah, it's more likely that those teams won't go far, but they could play spoiler and some variety won't hurt anyone. I think it'd make the CL a bit more interesting than it is now, which puts me to sleep most of the time.
     
  25. el chuntaro

    el chuntaro New Member

    Apr 7, 2007
    Neverland Ranch
    Its not fair to have 5 Argie and Brasilian teams playing in the tournament,no wonder they usually win because their is so many of them....atleast give them 3 each and set a repechaje on the on the other 4 spots to all of the other SA countries.

    BTW I say the weak countries should have their spots...look at Venezuela they were a joke 4-5 years ago now they are turning heads...and Peru and Bolivia are weak right now but you never know when they can turn it around..believe it or not Peru...Yes Peru was actually pretty good in the 70s:eek:.so its only fair to let them have their spots
     

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